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Post by capitalcityboy on Dec 7, 2009 15:33:05 GMT -6
So, shrevedad you going to put my thread back up or what....? thats all i want....be fair and dont wield your "Moderator" powers as you see fit...He messed up and its not the tournaments fault...don't back peddle..just because someone you know(coachray) backs up the opposite side...just put up my threadback up......thats all i ask...
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Post by furriner on Dec 7, 2009 15:33:47 GMT -6
Thanks Coach Ray.....finally...Shrevedad??? any response? 3) Concerning red cards. Up here all red cards are reported to the principal of the school involved and to the LHSAA. I would hate to see this tournament get in trouble for not following LHSAA guidelines when it comes to reporting these incidents. My understanding is that red cards are reported by the referee to whomever assigns that game. The assignor then forwards to LHSAA, who files and if needs be clarifies with the schools involved.
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Post by coachray40 on Dec 7, 2009 15:41:16 GMT -6
Your thread isnt going back up because once they are deleted they are gone forever.
I dont think Shrevedad was disagreeing with your intention, but moreso with your delivery. You must be very very careful when stating what someone said as verbatim info. If you cannot document and verify it, it becomes hearsay and borders on slander and/or libel. This is a serious legal concern that could have an adverse affect on this website. That is why I said in my earlier post that some more ambiguity would have been more proper, and Shrevedad indicated that was his take as well. Again, he wasnt censoring the message, but controlling the delivery. That is his job as a moderator.
This thread has adequately taken the place of the initial one, and it seems we have a solid forum going on about the incident in question, and the proper information needed for those involved to handle it.
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BC Fan
All-District
Posts: 140
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Post by BC Fan on Dec 7, 2009 16:45:42 GMT -6
Thanks Coach Ray.....finally...Shrevedad??? any response? Three things: 1) What you accused him of saying may or may not have been said. I heard both sides. Hence the possible slander and therefore the removal of that thread. Stick to the undeniable facts and you would most likely be fine. 2) Coach Ray is a very smart man. Do as he says. 3) Concerning red cards. Up here all red cards are reported to the principal of the school involved and to the LHSAA. I would hate to see this tournament get in trouble for not following LHSAA guidelines when it comes to reporting these incidents. I am part of the Tournament committee. All tournaments have their rules regarding Red cards. First things first, this was NOT a straight red ejection. It was a double yellow red violation. Our rules state that only Reds for violent conduct or fighting are reported. There were a couple of other straight reds for dissent in the tournament. These will not be reported as well. I think the thing in question here is the act after the ejection. I am pretty sure that the coach was very tired after being on the road late the night before and early that morning and made a bad error in judgment. It was eventually taken care of and the game was not abandoned as our BC coach went in to settle things down a bit. I am pretty sure that the coach in question regrets his actions and this must move on. One other thing I noticed is the behavior of some kids in this tournament. I was in shock at the behavior of the St Martins kids during the penalty shoot out against Alexandria. There was a questionable call about the pk taken was done so illegally and the kid started cursing and yelling at the main official and was not shown red. 2 other players on st martins joined in the cursing. I did like that the coach took control and immediately disciplined his kids. But still, kids showing disprespect to adults is a big problem in todays world and it is something that I do not put up with in my home at all. Kids need to learn respect for all adults is a MUST, whether they think they were done wrong or not. But kudos to the St Martin coach for putting the situation under control immediately. There were also a couple of red cards for cursing in other games. It is not the tournaments job to report to the LHSAA, it is the officials associations and they go by the tournament rules. We have been asked by the officials to adjust our rules next year to apply to behavior after the ejection and abusive behavior as well. We will definitely discuss this when talking about next years changes. All in all, a great weekend despite the weather. Hopefully Moore Park lets us use the fields again next year as despite our best efforts, we did some damage. Anyone out there have any other sites that we can hold this tournament next year should we not be allowed to use that facility? We are also highly considering Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for the tournament dates as we have been asked by almost all teams traveling in to consider this for next year for the safety of the players and flow of the tournament.
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Post by calcio on Dec 7, 2009 17:38:57 GMT -6
Nikedad Did you just defend what happened? I dont care how many state titles, how many positions you have, this kind of thing cannot go on.
Cant tell you how many long drives Ive made and been tired, I bet you have made a couple too.
But for your tournament to defend these actions, and to not report the violation to the school, the principal, and the LHSAA is irresponsible and it is a direct reflection of the tournament and people involved
ShreveDad, this isn't the first time i've witnessed you as an administrator use questionable censoring (ive been on here since 2000) but I do think you did the right thing if the post wasn't up to standards.
Every single coach holds them selves to certain standard, and if someone is allowed to do this and go unpunished, then what the heck are all the other coaches doing??? And what the heck is the line that gets you in trouble? Assault? Spitting? are you kidding!?? Verbal Abuse is just as bad, especially when your an "example" for young people.
If this goes by and nothing happens, this sport and state takes a huge hit in credability.
I don't think its right to fire a person over one indiscretion, but for anyone thats been involved in high school soccer for more than 4-5 years, knows this isnt the first time.
Plus, how do you file a complaint against an athletic director??? I doubt ANYTHING happens, even though it 100% should.
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dubya
Bench Warmer
Posts: 2
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Post by dubya on Dec 7, 2009 17:42:53 GMT -6
I just wanted to weigh in on this. I've been a long time lurker on this site, but what I witnessed yesterday in terms of the outburst prompted me to register so that I could post my observations.
I have coached soccer, have observed a lot of games and have photographed numerous soccer matches. Yesterday, I was photographing the Alexandria vs. St. Martin's match when I heard this loud commotion coming from the other field. It's one thing when you hear an eruption from the crowd because of a score, but the yelling and screaming I heard from one person really caught my attention. The sidelines were in silence and the players were in silence as this individual continued to berate the officials, had to be escorted away and kept turning toward the officials to launch one more salvo. I took about five shots of the coach being escorted away and turned my attention back to the other game.
I don't have a horse in this race and I don't know the St. Louis coach. I do know that they have a successful and long history in soccer. The behavior I witnessed only made me think that it wasn't good for Louisiana Soccer, his school program or more importantly, the players he leads and hopefully shapes into young men. As adults and as coaches, sometimes we lose sight of how impressionable teens are and how our own behavior helps to shape theirs. I couldn't help but wonder what kind of impression the behavior yesterday had on the players. Is this how they will handle their own frustration and anger?
The coach yelled to the officials that he was fighting for and standing up for his players. Certainly that's an admirable quality. I commend him for that. But I implore him to find a better way to do so. We all want to win. That's why they keep score right? But sometimes it causes us to lose sight of other things. Sometimes the game itself seems more important than other things in life or it is more important to the coach rather than the players. When that happens, you really need to step back and look at the big picture.
Hopefully the coach will step back and ponder his own actions. Perhaps the officials made a mistake. Then so be it. But his mistakes were even greater and based on what I saw, probably will repeat themselves if he doesn't get them under control. I assume he suspends players for poor behavior or breaking team rules. He should apply the same to himself. He should remove himself from coaching soccer for an extended period (even before the LHSAA does so). It will be good for the game, it will be good for his players and in the long run, it will be good for him.
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Post by capitalcityboy on Dec 7, 2009 17:47:05 GMT -6
"One other thing I noticed is the behavior of some kids in this tournament. I was in shock at the behavior of the St Martins kids during the penalty shoot out against Alexandria. There was a questionable call about the pk taken was done so illegally and the kid started cursing and yelling at the main official and was not shown red. 2 other players on st martins joined in the cursing. I did like that the coach took control and immediately disciplined his kids. But still, kids showing disprespect to adults is a big problem in todays world and it is something that I do not put up with in my home at all. Kids need to learn respect for all adults is a MUST, whether they think they were done wrong or not. But kudos to the St Martin coach for putting the situation under control immediately. There were also a couple of red cards for cursing in other games. It is not the tournaments job to report to the LHSAA, it is the officials associations and they go by the tournament rules. We have been asked by the officials to adjust our rules next year to apply to behavior after the ejection and abusive behavior as well. We will definitely discuss this when talking about next years changes."
This is what i am saying.....if the coach is cursing and making a scene...how do we expect the kids to not make a scene??? they are very impressionable....if they see a raving lunatic going off..then it must be alright....and its not.. and then some lawyer talk and then its he didnt say what he said...whats the point if you can stand up and say what someone did..call them out on it and thats it...without getting deleted...isnt this America??? Free speech right?? especially when you are NOT bashing someone...you are stating fact...and coach Ray..I wish Shrevedad was doing that the way you said it..he just saw it and BOOM....Deleated...thats not fair to the people who post..If this is going to be a liget sight then we must hold even the runners of the sight to standers right?? well..i will repost details as most who didnt get to see my original one..so everyone can have correct information...
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Post by goat on Dec 7, 2009 18:07:57 GMT -6
"One other thing I noticed is the behavior of some kids in this tournament. I was in shock at the behavior of the St Martins kids during the penalty shoot out against Alexandria. There was a questionable call about the pk taken was done so illegally and the kid started cursing and yelling at the main official and was not shown red. 2 other players on st martins joined in the cursing. I did like that the coach took control and immediately disciplined his kids. But still, kids showing disprespect to adults is a big problem in todays world and it is something that I do not put up with in my home at all. Kids need to learn respect for all adults is a MUST, whether they think they were done wrong or not. But kudos to the St Martin coach for putting the situation under control immediately. There were also a couple of red cards for cursing in other games. It is not the tournaments job to report to the LHSAA, it is the officials associations and they go by the tournament rules. We have been asked by the officials to adjust our rules next year to apply to behavior after the ejection and abusive behavior as well. We will definitely discuss this when talking about next years changes." This is what i am saying.....if the coach is cursing and making a scene...how do we expect the kids to not make a scene??? they are very impressionable....if they see a raving lunatic going off..then it must be alright....and its not.. and then some lawyer talk and then its he didnt say what he said...whats the point if you can stand up and say what someone did..call them out on it and thats it...without getting deleted...isnt this America??? Free speech right?? especially when you are NOT bashing someone...you are stating fact...and coach Ray..I wish Shrevedad was doing that the way you said it..he just saw it and BOOM....Deleated...thats not fair to the people who post..If this is going to be a liget sight then we must hold even the runners of the sight to standers right?? well..i will repost details as most who didnt get to see my original one..so everyone can have correct information... Shrevedad did what he thought was the right thing as a moderator. People on this site are well aware of what happen by now. Personally I think you are acting like a child because YOUR post was deleted. Get over it!
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Post by soccer008 on Dec 7, 2009 18:11:51 GMT -6
I am part of the Tournament committee. I think the thing in question here is the act after the ejection. I am pretty sure that the coach was very tired after being on the road late the night before and early that morning and made a bad error in judgment. I was in shock at the behavior of the St Martins kids during the penalty shoot out against Alexandria. Kids need to learn respect for all adults is a MUST, whether they think they were done wrong or not. In shock over the players acting up I agree with. But, no shock over the actions of a Coach/A.D because he was "very tired" doesn't float. I imagine that you're not pleased with the Coach/A.D., but why so much leeway with him being tired? What example was he showing...man, I'm so tired, and this match isn't going the way I'd like, guess I'll lose my mind? ccboy, I don't think coachRay was "taking sides" against your original thread, just the tone and legalities. The message has been delivered through this thread. Everything must go through the proper channels, not just an Internet forum. It appears the A.D. will have the Coach's back if called to the Pricipal's office.
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Post by OnTheLine on Dec 7, 2009 18:58:33 GMT -6
I'm kind of upset. I left before this game.
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BC Fan
All-District
Posts: 140
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Post by BC Fan on Dec 7, 2009 18:59:17 GMT -6
Nikedad Did you just defend what happened? I dont care how many state titles, how many positions you have, this kind of thing cannot go on. Cant tell you how many long drives Ive made and been tired, I bet you have made a couple too. But for your tournament to defend these actions, and to not report the violation to the school, the principal, and the LHSAA is irresponsible and it is a direct reflection of the tournament and people involved I'm sorry that you feel that I am defending anyone. I am just stating the facts that I saw yesterday and over the weekend. I was there and you were not and I am providing you with details. The tournament rules are made ahead of time and we don't change rules on the go. We got our tournament rules from MANY other tournaments as Coach Chad has put it together. Even the officials association knows what the rules stated on reporting. Next year we can change that because the flaw with this is that you can get away with murder in your last game of the tournament. If the violation had happened earlier the coach would have been suspended the next tournament game. I don't think you are doing yourself any justice by criticizing a tournament over something that you don't know anything about or were even present to witness. The coach was wrong and I'm pretty sure he knows it and feels bad about it. Now let's move on
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Post by blackandgold on Dec 7, 2009 19:18:40 GMT -6
as a former coach, i know there were many times that i was upset with a call and argued with the referee. and there were more than likely times where i went a little too far. i have also witnessed other coaches go to the extreme. even coaches i have worked with in the past have gone over board. hearing this scenerio makes me think that all the coaches reading this thread could possibly learn from this. think back to times when you yelled at a referee, and think if you have ever gone too far. and how far is too far? arguing a call is generally ok. if you find yourself using obcenities, it's too far. i agree that coaches are role models for the CHILDREN they are coaching. so, we as coaches might learn a lesson from this coach.
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Post by arm on Dec 7, 2009 21:32:30 GMT -6
The concern I have is that this coach has a history of this type of behavior. LHSAA was notified in past years when he verbally berated another coach. Our school did not particpated in the Lashowcase because of his behavior. Coaching in high school athletics for almost ten years my association with this type of behavior was the absolute low point in my association with soccer. Fortunately good sportmanship memories from other coaches still has me still loving this sport. LHSAA has not done enough to address outbursts of this nature. The true tragedy is that in the absence of adequate sanctions we are teaching future coaches that this type of behavior is permitted and an acceptable way in the achievement of excellence in soccer. This coach obviously promotes the advancement of the kids he is associated with. Unfortunatey he is doing this while disrespecting referees and coaches in unacceptable ways that many find very offensive.
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Post by makeleleman24 on Dec 7, 2009 21:52:31 GMT -6
if anyone had the nerve to be tired and angry it should have been the coach and team of st martins going up on friday playing 4 games and not easy games hard games against bigger schools with more subs those 11 players never came off for st martins and to play so well to prove yourself to people who are so skeptical and after all that i could only imagine not getting a straw with my drink would have put me over the edge
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Dec 7, 2009 22:16:01 GMT -6
So, shrevedad you going to put my thread back up or what....? thats all i want....be fair and dont wield your "Moderator" powers as you see fit...He messed up and its not the tournaments fault...don't back peddle..just because someone you know(coachray) backs up the opposite side...just put up my threadback up......thats all i ask... Capital, there will no be calls to action by you or any member of this forum. Shrevedad did what he thought was right and rather you believe it right or wrong, that is the final decision. This is not no democracy, and I do not see you putting hours and hours like Shrevedad and other moderators do. Before you start peddling about what you call a mistake, remember that it is because people like Shrevedad that you the opportunity to be here. Enough is enough, your simple issue of making people aware of an issue has been taken care of. There is nothing anyone on this forum can or will do, carry on, we have a long year ahead of us.
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Post by lebronjames on Dec 7, 2009 23:04:54 GMT -6
makeleleman24 said, "if anyone had the nerve to be tired and angry it should have been the coach and team of st martins going up on friday playing 4 games and not easy games hard games against bigger schools with more subs those 11 players never came off for st martins and to play so well to prove yourself to people who are so skeptical and after all that i could only imagine not getting a straw with my drink would have put me over the edge"
I could not agree more. St. Martin's really proved themselves and it was a shame how they lost to Alexandria. And not only did they lose, but they also missed most of the Saints game
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Post by fromthree on Dec 8, 2009 8:48:39 GMT -6
makeleleman24 said, "if anyone had the nerve to be tired and angry it should have been the coach and team of st martins going up on friday playing 4 games and not easy games hard games against bigger schools with more subs those 11 players never came off for st martins and to play so well to prove yourself to people who are so skeptical and after all that i could only imagine not getting a straw with my drink would have put me over the edge" I could not agree more. St. Martin's really proved themselves and it was a shame how they lost to Alexandria. And not only did they lose, but they also missed most of the Saints game definetly, st martin was on edge and they fought hard to get to the semis and to lose on a bad call would have set me off
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Post by goat on Dec 8, 2009 13:16:47 GMT -6
makeleleman24 said, "if anyone had the nerve to be tired and angry it should have been the coach and team of st martins going up on friday playing 4 games and not easy games hard games against bigger schools with more subs those 11 players never came off for st martins and to play so well to prove yourself to people who are so skeptical and after all that i could only imagine not getting a straw with my drink would have put me over the edge" I could not agree more. St. Martin's really proved themselves and it was a shame how they lost to Alexandria. And not only did they lose, but they also missed most of the Saints game definetly, st martin was on edge and they fought hard to get to the semis and to lose on a bad call would have set me off I can't stand it when people say they lost because of a bad call! The lose couldn't be that a player missed a wide open shot, or that the other team took advantage of a mistake, or anything the team did, no its the refs fault. what a crock!
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Post by makeleleman24 on Dec 8, 2009 14:52:43 GMT -6
goat you are wrong because a bad call cheated ireland out of a world cup. so it was not the refs fault that ireland lost the game and therfore not admitted into the world cup dont get me wrong what you said is right most of the time but there are times when they are wrong if it didnt mean that much then fifa refs wouldnt get paid as much as they do im just saying not trying to be meanie
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dulac
All-District
Posts: 204
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Post by dulac on Dec 8, 2009 15:04:15 GMT -6
When, not if, LHSAA finds out about this, and not from the Lafayette association, you know what's going to hit the fan.
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