Question on High School Rules?

[d1]

I watched a high school game today and was appauled at the level of officiating. During the game there were numerous hard fouls off the ball by both teams that were not called, the striker for one team was marked the entire match and was fouled constantly yet the Ref made no call. Late in the match a player takes a shot on goal the goalie making a hard charge makes the save! after the shot the offensive player runs through and runs over the goalie mind you after the shot has been blocked, the Ref blows the whistle and signals a corner kick, a few seconds later after speaking literally with the offensive player that made a reckless charge he changes the call to a PK?? Thus the Ref decided the outcome of the match?? I admit I am new to HS soccer but I have many years with FIFA and USSF, where the last thing a Ref wants to do is determine the outcome of a game. To make this even more vile the Ref apologizes and admits the PK should not have been awarded?!?!?!?! After he decides the outcome of the game he apologizes for making the wrong call, I am curious is there a protest rule in HS soccer? I mean seriously this is outragious to say the least. The same Ref gave a straight red to a kid for saying " he did not even hit the WHO DAT ball" after a hard challange? Wow intense to say the least?

I am curious as to if HS coaches have the ability to protest? I am also curious as to the qualifications have to be for the HS Refs?

[tigerdawg]

no, there are no protests. as for your question about qualifications, there is a rules test that is taken in order to be an official.

[premier]

"same Ref gave a straight red to a kid for saying " he did not even hit the LSU is great ball" after a hard challange"

The player said "you watch the D*** ball!" after the referee cautioned him to play the ball. the ref also said that "he could have carded the keeper" when the keeper was obviously going for the ball and happened to get the player as well. I do not agree with many of the calls that this referee did and didn't make

[fclouisiane]

If your account is accurate, then I'm thinking the linesmen should've been watching the off-the-ball stuff and conferring with the ref before awarding a PK.

[northlasoccerdad]

Here are a couple of clarifications from today's game:
1. Two red cards were awarded for foul language. That's in the judgement of the referee. There are no rules about what specific words will result in a red card, how loud the words must be said, or who they are said to. NFHS rules allow for a yellow card for "incidental foul language" (USSF does not)... again, there is no specific statement about when foul language is only "incidental" -- it's in the judgement of the referee. If players and bench personnel keep their language completely clean then there will never be yellow or red cards for foul language.
2. What the referee apologized for was delaying his whistle to signal the penalty kick, even though he had decided immediately that a PK was warranted. That made it look like he was changing his call or that he was "talked into" the PK (neither were true). The delay made his eventual call for a PK hard to "sell". And yes, part of growing as a referee is learning to "sell" your calls.
3. Spectators should be careful about judging the referee based on their perspective from the stands. Any referee will tell you that a given play may look one way from the stands and another way on the field. Many of us have seen films of a play where from one angle there was no apparent foul, and from another angle there clearly was a foul. The referee on the field gets only the benefit of one angle... and no replays!

[stevenf1232]

speaking of rules

is it possible to get a red card after the game is over?

if it is not possible, what happens if the ref gave a player one?

[goalieguy]

yes, it is possible to get any card before or after the game. And It has the same consequenses as any red card.

[goalieguy]

Jan 23, 2010 16:42:35 GMT -6 tigerdawg said:

no, there are no protests. as for your question about qualifications, there is a rules test that is taken in order to be an official.

easy test...

[Steven Gerrard]

Jan 23, 2010 18:49:32 GMT -6 fclouisiane said:

If your account is accurate, then I'm thinking the linesmen should've been watching the off-the-ball stuff and conferring with the ref before awarding a PK.

The account transcribed in the initial post is not accurate. Parents are never objective in their opinions, and I guess that they should not be. The goalie came off the line, and committed an obvious foul on the attacker. It was actually an easy call (and possible a red card). At no point did the center signal for a corner kick. Actually, I would think that D1 was at a different game, but for the post by northlasoccerdad.

[furriner]

seems like I missed a really good game. who were the teams?

[premier]

Jan 23, 2010 21:10:09 GMT -6 furriner said:

seems like I missed a really good game. who were the teams?

the teams were Pineville and Ouachata, it was a replay of an earlier district game in which the lights blew out in the first half

[rebdad]

Can northlasoccerdad tell me how he knows what the ref's intentions were with the goalie situation? My understanding was that the ref did apologize about making a poor call. I watched the game and although I didn't think the officiating was very good, teams must adjust to the way the game is being called - unless it is being called one-sided. Refs make mistakes every game, in every sport. But good refs will try not to let a call determine the outcome of a game. Did the side judge see the play in the same way?
Finally, many times we like to say one call or one bad play decided the game -- pineville's best did not show up this morning -- and that is why the game was lost. Give credit to Ouachita - they played hard and took advantage.

[premier]

Jan 23, 2010 22:06:45 GMT -6 rebdad said:

Can northlasoccerdad tell me how he knows what the ref's intentions were with the goalie situation? My understanding was that the ref did apologize about making a poor call. I watched the game and although I didn't think the officiating was very good, teams must adjust to the way the game is being called - unless it is being called one-sided. Refs make mistakes every game, in every sport. But good refs will try not to let a call determine the outcome of a game. Did the side judge see the play in the same way?
Finally, many times we like to say one call or one bad play decided the game -- pineville's best did not show up this morning -- and that is why the game was lost. Give credit to Ouachita - they played hard and took advantage.

well said, rebdad, Ouachita played a very hard fought game and Pineville just didn't show up to play. The game started in the 20th minute or so with Pineville up 2-0 so i believe that Pineville went into the game overconfident and it came back to haunt them. Good luck to both teams in the final games of district play

[northlasoccerdad]

Jan 23, 2010 22:06:45 GMT -6 rebdad said:

Can northlasoccerdad tell me how he knows what the ref's intentions were with the goalie situation?

I was the AR on the end of the field where the controversial play took place. I saw what happened (from my perspective on the opposite touch line), I heard the center referee's explanation to the Pineville coach, and I also heard the center referee's apology for the late whistle. I know the center referee to be a man of integrity. When he tells me that he made the decision about the PK when the foul took place, even though the whistle was delayed, I believe him. He's also a referee with several years of experience as a high school referee.

[d1]

Wow it is really neat to see how perspectives are different. In the case of the PK kick being awarded, what foul could the goalie have been carded for?? He played the ball and the collision was a result of the offensive player completing a run in a hard charge, the goalie actually defended and stopped a shot before the collisions, neither of which is a against any laws of the game? Now again as I said before my experience is with FIFA and USSF not high school, and I am finding that there are some differnces on how laws are applied or not applied. I make no claim to be a expert on how HS soccer is called nor did I defame anyone my simple question was asked in a respectful manor. The game is in the books thats fine, but in my years of working crew we always debriefed and looked for ways to improve our officiating for the next game, as a spectator I simply wanted clarification into how the laws were applied or not applied in this instance.

In regards to the childish remarks made on a mature question any time you would like to debate the laws of the game I would be more than willing to take you up on it ( as long as it is the laws of the real game as per FIFA or any of its governing bodies). I have already learned that HS is vastly different.

[tonygalinto]

Jan 24, 2010 17:03:20 GMT -6 d1 said:

Wow it is really neat to see how perspectives are different. In the case of the PK kick being awarded, what foul could the goalie have been carded for?? He played the ball and the collision was a result of the offensive player completing a run in a hard charge, the goalie actually defended and stopped a shot before the collisions, neither of which is a against any laws of the game? Now again as I said before my experience is with FIFA and USSF not high school, and I am finding that there are some differnces on how laws are applied or not applied. I make no claim to be a expert on how HS soccer is called nor did I defame anyone my simple question was asked in a respectful manor. The game is in the books thats fine, but in my years of working crew we always debriefed and looked for ways to improve our officiating for the next game, as a spectator I simply wanted clarification into how the laws were applied or not applied in this instance.

In regards to the childish remarks made on a mature question any time you would like to debate the laws of the game I would be more than willing to take you up on it ( as long as it is the laws of the real game as per FIFA or any of its governing bodies). I have already learned that HS is vastly different.

Sir, You have mentioned a number of times in your post that your experience has been with FIFA or USSF which makes me believe you are/were a high level FIFA or USSF referee. Would you mind telling us your current FIFA or USSF grade or the highest grade you obtained if you aren't currently refereeing. Are you currently a FIFA or USSF assessor or have you ever been one? How about instructor?

I don't know about other parts of the country but my experience has been that the vast majority of USSF referees also work high school soccer games. Have you recently moved into the area or are you just visiting the state? If you are currently a resident of Louisiana let me be the first to invite you next year become a LHSAA high school referee. I'm sure a referee with your level of experience would be an asset to the state.

In closing I would ask that you read the areas below concerning the USSF Referee Code Of Ethics.

(6) I will be loyal to my fellow officials and never knowingly promote criticism of them.

(10) I will not make statements about any games except to clarify an interpretation of the Laws of the Game.

Thank You

[Steven Gerrard]

Jan 24, 2010 17:03:20 GMT -6 d1 said:

Wow it is really neat to see how perspectives are different. In the case of the PK kick being awarded, what foul could the goalie have been carded for?? He played the ball and the collision was a result of the offensive player completing a run in a hard charge, the goalie actually defended and stopped a shot before the collisions, neither of which is a against any laws of the game?

The goalie came out on the attacker and fouled the attacker. The goalie did not get the ball. Although he did not blow his whistle right away, the foul was properly called by the center ref.

If a foul is committed by the last (or in some cases the second to last) defender, you have to determine if it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity by the attacker. If the goalie (or any other defender) commits a foul that takes away an "obvious goal scoring opportunity", then that would come with a red card. See the red card given to the Chelsea goalie in the Champions League final a few years back. I am not saying that the goalie in question should have received a red card for the foul, but that is always a concern when your goalie comes off the line and fouls an attacker.

[furriner]

didn't the ref blow the whistle too early in that Chelsea game? Maybe, without seeing the game, the ref was waiting to see if the OGSO would still exist. When it did not, he blew the whistle. rather get it right than get it fast.

[d1]

My experience may not be as much as some but here goes:
I have played , coached , reffed ??
Player: Started in 1976 have played rec, select, and adult club played competitive until 1995 stopped due to injury. Still play some adult rec or with my kids just love the sport.

Coach: I have coached rec 8 years, rec plus 2 years, high school ( 2 years 87, 88 ), Division I still active altogether over 12 years coaching at some level.

Ref: I recieced my first patch in 1983 when the class was FIFA. I was very active on the field from 83 until 91. The past few seasons I have done a few rec games and enjoy those levels and have no desire to do High School games.

(6) I did not defame I simply asked a question not using game specifics nor did I use the centers name or the ARs names

(10) Notice the name of the post Questions on High School Rules

I am a rookie in regards to the HS rules and I still have questions and have found no reliable on line source to clarify?

1) Red Cards? Do they constitute a suspension of district play of any kind?
2) I find the soft red and straight red interesting in HS play in regards to substitutions.
3) I find the leave the field of play for a yellow interesting and actually see this as beneficial is there any other reason than a cool down?
4) Does a HS ref have to be USSF or not?

As I have stated each time I am learning the HS process and I am interested in how the laws are applied.

[Steven Gerrard]

Jan 25, 2010 20:59:34 GMT -6 d1 said:

4) Does a HS ref have to be USSF or not?

My understanding is yes. In order to ref high school games in northeast Louisiana, you have to pass the grade 8 USSF course, which is an 18 hour course with a 50 question test. I believe this requirement is statewide. In addition, you have to take a separate test for LHSAA.