Should 8th graders play varsity?

[Deleted]

I have heard there is a rule that states a middle schooler can play on a high school team only IF said player attends a combined middle school/high school.

My question is, can an 8th grader compete with juniors and seniors?

Why not let any middle schooler play varsity soccer if they are good enough?

I think it is unfair to use the "under one roof" stipulation.

I think feeder schools and neighborhood schools (same school district) should have the same policy.

If they are going to allow home schoolers to play on high school teams, then why not open it up to the younger kids?

As it exists now, the rule is biased toward k-12 private and parochial schools.

Anyone have a clear interpretation or any insight as to why this rule exists?

How hard would it be to change it?

[newosoccerfan]

Sept 28, 2010 16:40:22 GMT -6 @hall97 said:

I have heard there is a rule that states a middle schooler can play on a high school team only IF said player attends a combined middle school/high school.

My question is, can an 8th grader compete with juniors and seniors?

Why not let any middle schooler play varsity soccer if they are good enough?

I think it is unfair to use the "under one roof" stipulation.

I think feeder schools and neighborhood schools (same school district) should have the same policy.

If they are going to allow home schoolers to play on high school teams, then why not open it up to the younger kids?

As it exists now, the rule is biased toward k-12 private and parochial schools.

Anyone have a clear interpretation or any insight as to why this rule exists?

How hard would it be to change it?

My guess is combined schools tend to be smaller, so having 8th Graders help any Varsity team makes sense. When I look at the schools I follow, GNO DIII, they are almost all combined schools, especially the 1A and 2A schools. But when you look at larger schools, especially DI schools, there are few combined schools.

It's not a public versus private/parochial school issue. The 1A and 2A public schools that play soccer in the GNO (Haynes, Lusher, and Fisher) are all combined schools. Whereas the D1 GNO public schools that play soccer aren't.

I don't see the rule in terms of its effect effect on students but its effect on schools. This is a good rule for smaller schools where the occasional extra body helps field more, or better, teams. And if students at those school can play Varsity great.

Last year, many 1A and 2A GNO soccer playing schools had 8th graders starting or playing quality minutes off of the bench. So 8th graders can do it.

Where anyone sends their student to school is a choice, and can affect sports opportunities. This comment isn't just limited to combined schools. Sending your child to a larger (5A) high school means his chances of playing a Varsity sport in his lower grades are slim. That's all part of the decision where to send your child to school.

NewO

[goalieguy]

I have seen 8th graders seriously compete with on varsity squads and actually start because they were able to make such an impact.

My only problem with younger kids playing on varsity is size. In my experince the younger kids will usually get taken advantage of because of their size.

[brix]

no. no nubs allowed

[The Irish Fro]

I hear Jesuit has a kindergardener on their team....he's supposed to be the next Adu.

[goalieguy]

Sept 28, 2010 23:50:00 GMT -6 The Irish Fro said:

I hear Jesuit has a kindergardener on their team....he's supposed to be the next Adu.

great post fro... ;D

[Deleted]

Combined schools or not, if they allow 8th graders at all there shouldn't be any "stipulations".

Especially if they are considering allowing home schooled kids play high school sports. For a school they don't attend.

I think "feeder schools" should count. If that means an 8th grader is good enough to play (at a 4 or 5a school) then so be it.

With the possible exceptions of a top D1 soccer program, I would think that a year round club player with decent athletic ability could play varsity at the vast majority of schools.

[goat]

Hall any team that has to play an 8th grader is in big trouble. The only reason they play is because of numbers, plain and simple. I know your kid plays up in select but that is a far cry from a 17 or 18 year old playing against a 13 or 14 year old. The rule is in place so small schools can field a team. Don’t worry Hall your kid will have 4 years of high school soccer to enjoy.

oh and Fro I saw that kid from Jesuit play!! He is the REAL DEAL!!! hahahahahahaha

[Boomer]

Regardless of skill level, most 8th graders are at physical risk playing with most 12th graders. Soccer is full contact game, like it or not.

LHSAA rules on 8th grade etc., are across the board, not just for soccer. In fall, 2003, Port Sulphur (9-1A) started Randall Mackey at QB in football... when he was an 8th grader. But Randall Mackey was and is a truly exceptional athlete.

Let's start with 9th grade: LHSAA rules 1.5.3 "Schools having fewer than four high school grades may use students above the 8th grade level from any junior high school in the same school attendance zone."

Now, 8th grade and below:

1.33 "STUDENTS IN 8TH GRADE AND BELOW

1.33.2 "A student in elementary grades who participates on a high school team shall meet the same eligibility requirements as a high school student..."

One effect of the Catholic League schools having 8th grades now is that 9th graders are now elibible for sports.

1.33.1 "A school shall not allow a student in the 8th grade and below to practice with any of its school teams... unless that grade is under the official jurisdiction of the principal of the member high school..."

This rule allows adult educators to control a situation where over-anxious parental pushing could get their kid hurt.

By the way... Riverside Academy had a 7th grader playing varsity center-mid last year. The boy is from Germany, and looks every bit a 7th grader kid playing with teens, ... until you notice that he is winning every ball at mid-field and distributing the ball with laser passes into space. The RA coach was very responsible, and closly monitored the physical play.

Patrick Taylor also fielded a team with several 7th-8th graders. The physical overmatch was obvious... and could have been dangerous.

[newosoccerfan]

Sept 29, 2010 6:53:14 GMT -6 @hall97 said:

Combined schools or not, if they allow 8th graders at all there shouldn't be any "stipulations".

Especially if they are considering allowing home schooled kids play high school sports. For a school they don't attend.

I think "feeder schools" should count. If that means an 8th grader is good enough to play (at a 4 or 5a school) then so be it.

With the possible exceptions of a top D1 soccer program, I would think that a year round club player with decent athletic ability could play varsity at the vast majority of schools.

Hall,

What I think you are asking is why allow homeschoolers to play at a school they don't attend and not 8th Graders? Here is what I think the answer is. First, and most important, homeschoolers have no other sports option. Second, there are a whole bunch of regulations about grades, attendance overall and attendance on gameday that the high schools would have to rely on the junior high school for compliance with. If the junior high school messes up, then the high school has to forfeit games the player participated in. All of those things are controlled by the parents in a homeschool situation. So how likely is a compliance issue when parents keep those records? Finally, what junior high school is going to want to lose a good or great junior high player to a high school? Let that player out early to attend high school games or practices? My guess is 8th graders at combined schools can more easily work out these last logistical and political issues.

Finally, 8th graders (or even 9th graders) playing varsity soccer is very rare (or rare) at 4A or 5A combined schools. I'd go so far to say that it is rare at schools on the larger side of 2A enrollment and above. It doesn't matter how good a player is on his natural age team. The different is literally boys to men.
NewO

[Deleted]

Well, first let me give a sincere 'thanks' for everyone's input.

However, I think, goat, that you may be reading more into this.

And, as much as I love the game (and want it to grow)I also think some of you are giving high school soccer more of a compliment than it deserves.

There were two Division I programs here in Shreveport that had freshmen starters last year. Those are just the ones I know of. Not only did they play they were impact players.

The majority of the high school games I have witnessed involve long balls over the top and a mad dash to win it. I would agree that a typical or even exceptional 8th grader playing as a defender especially would have serious issues keeping up physically.

Regional biases or not, I think everyone would agree that Shreve had a top team. Magnet has also had freshmen as starters and even impact players in the past.

It might be rare for Jesuit to have freshmen starting. (I'd bet money that Mullins did though.)

Schelles Hyndman's (FC Dallas and former SMU coach) grandson played on an FC Dallas U16 team as an under14 player last year. of course, this kid is on the national team and is (supposedly) a gifted technical center midfielder. The kid is maybe 5 feet 4 and 110 lbs. soaking wet.

Just like the German kid NewO mentioned he has an incredible technique and vision. A smaller player keeping and distributing the ball in the middle of the pitch is a different proposition altogether.

There are exceptions but the typical high school soccer player is around 5'9 and under 150 lbs. A 5'9 120 pound 8th grader isn't that outclassed physically in that sense.

Yes I will agree that there can be a huge difference physically between even freshmen and seniors. But that is more of an issue for throwball and basketball. We seem to have a preoccupation with size in the USA with our sports.

Finally, for clarification, my son is in 7th grade. Not 8th. If I was hell bent on him playing high school soccer next year as an 8th grader....I'd enroll him at Calvary.

Of course, being a practicing Catholic that ain't gonna happen.....

[parkwaydad]

The entire point is fairness. Why should Calvary or Jesuit or any other program with 7th and 8th graders under the same roof live by one set of rules and the others have to live by a separate set of rules. If I'm Calvary or Jesuit and I have a big lead on an opponent, it gives me a chance to get valuable playing time for my seventh & eighth graders. This playing time might lead to a tremendous advantage years forward against a future opponent, perhaps even just enough to tilt a close game to a win for the more experienced team. These schools also have the opportunity for these younger kids to practice regulary with the older kids and yes every once in awhile a special youngster can start early. If one set of schools is allowed seventh and eighth graders, then kids from feeder schools should also be allowed to practice and play. I believe Calvary had a younger girl start last year. Her experiences from seventh and eighth grade potentially could help Calvary beat teams in the future, as she will always have that slight edge on other kids...just not right.

[parkwaydad]

Oh and I forgot to say, I've seen Hall's kid play against adults twice maybe even three times his size in our pick up games. That kid does what is needed, scoring, defending, goalkeeper, you name it. He easily could play at the high school level, especially with some of the inexperienced players many high schools are forced to use. I even suggested to Hall that he send his boy to Calvary, but that Catholic thing just had to get in the way.

[royda2]

Sept 29, 2010 8:29:17 GMT -6 Boomer said:

By the way... Riverside Academy had a 7th grader playing varsity center-mid last year. The boy is from Germany, and looks every bit a 7th grader kid playing with teens, ... until you notice that he is winning every ball at mid-field and distributing the ball with laser passes into space. The RA coach was very responsible, and closly monitored the physical play.

This kid was good. Although there was a clear size advantage, he held his own in the middle. If a kid can compete at the high school level and be safe, he should be allowed to. There should not be an arbitrary rule against it.

[Boomer]

The issue is not about soccer, it is about sports. The reason "under the same roof" exists is because of the sense that it is all one school.

Jesuit does not qualify... it's 8th graders are mostly not eligible because they are from out-of-district. It is wholly unlikely that an 8th grader would make Jesuit's team in any case.

Most "under the same roof" mid-upper schools are smaller schools, and some magnets. Off hand, Oak Grove, South Plaquimines, South Camreon, and a bunch of smaller private schools are the ones that fit this catagory. Almost none have 8th graders that can play with the varsity.

The rest of the state separates mid school and upper. You therefore have different administrations, schedules and adult control, not to mention insurance.

You cannot have a set of eligibility rules for soccer that is different from those for the rest of sports.

There is a lot that is unfair in the LHSAA. But I would start with the playoff system, championship games 300 miles from the two schools competing, and an LHSAA administration that is either incompetent, ignorant of their own rules, arrogant with power, or just don't care about soccer before I would address the eligibility of 8th graders... that would be a nightmare in my opnion.

[Deleted]

Boomer, soccer is a 'sport'.

I will agree with you that there are other issues that need to be addressed with LHSAA. (Like going postal with one's expense account for starters.)

I went to a Catholic school growing up and I remember a classmate of mine playing high school basketball as an 8th grader.

And yes, the school was and is k thru 12. But it wasn't to fill out the roster. Between freshmen, jv and varsity there were 25 guys playing hs basketball.

The real issue is fairness. If one team can play junior high players. then it should be opened up to everyone else.

"Same roof" or not.

Someone mentioned earlier that an exceptional jr high player would be needed for his jr high team.

No jr high soccer here in north La.

Another viewpoint. Most high school "impact" players tend to be the full time, club players. However they make up a smaller percentage of most teams' rosters.

So, why can't a talented (albeit younger) club player contribute? Essentially we are talking about "what is needed" here. Smaller schools "need" junior high players to fill out their rosters.

Apparently the "needs" of the team negate the physical risks associated with playing against 17 and 18 yr olds.

If an 8th grader is good enough to make a varsity squad at a larger school, then wouldn't it be safe to say that he made the team because they "need" him?

parkwaydad, I appreciate the sentiments.

If a player is GOOD enough, then he is OLD enough.

[beauchenecoach]

It is a very simple answer...

The LHSAA is a membership of Louisiana HIGH SCHOOL principals. Their jurisdiction of enforcing the bylaws and constitution is over those member schools. Only junior high students who attend a school which is under the same jurisdicition of the high school principal are allowed to play in JV or Varsity games. Very simple. If your junior high student attends a K-12 or 6-12, or whatever -12 school and the principal is over the entire school ,that student is eligible to play high school (if they meet ALL eligibility requirements).

The LHSAA does not govern over Junior High Athletics or any school that is not under one of its member principals. Period. This is not an unfair rule, this is about membership and what the LHSAA is comprised of. Compare that to any organization... Does the LSA govern over it's non member clubs? Does USYSA govern over any non member clubs? How about the USSF Academy? Call it whatever you want (politics or whatever else), but the HS in LHSAA stands for High School.

One more thing... not every feeder school feeds into ONE school. So where does the line get drawn there if LHSAA would turn into the LJHSAA? The rules are there for a reason... if any LHSAA rule is not to your liking, get with a member principal and come up with a proposal by Nov. 15th to be on the agenda this January. The MEMBERSHIP of principals will decide on the issue. Although I don't think you will EVER see a non member school junior high student allowed to participate in the LHSAA.

[Deleted]

Coach, I appreciate you explaining lhsaa policy.

Just a couple of minute details:

1. The LHSAA apparently is in the business of governing jr high sports. Because there is a provision for jr high players to participate in high school sports.

2. Last time I checked high school is 9th thru 12th grade. "Combined" or not 7th and 8th grade is not high school.

Apparently the rule/policy is convenient for certain schools. And it excludes rather than includes players based solely on semantics.

[Steven Gerrard]

Beauchene's explanation was very good. LHSAA is NOT in the business of governing Jr. High sports. It governs high school sports, and if an 8th grader is playing for his school's varsity or junior varsity, then that player is governed by LHSAA, just like the other players on the team. That does not mean that LHSAA is governing Jr. High sports. The rule "includes" kids in that it allows them to play for the varsity or junior varsity of the schools where they attend.

[beauchenecoach]

Sept 30, 2010 17:16:52 GMT -6 @hall97 said:

Coach, I appreciate you explaining lhsaa policy.

Just a couple of minute details:

1. The LHSAA apparently is in the business of governing jr high sports. Because there is a provision for jr high players to participate in high school sports.

Name one junior high sport that the LHSAA governs. LHSAA only governs high school sports. A junior high kid playing on a member schools JV or Varsity has nothing to do with junior high sports.

Sept 30, 2010 17:16:52 GMT -6 @hall97 said:

Coach, I appreciate you explaining lhsaa policy.

2. Last time I checked high school is 9th thru 12th grade. "Combined" or not 7th and 8th grade is not high school.

Apparently the rule/policy is convenient for certain schools. And it excludes rather than includes players based solely on semantics.

That is correct. The LHSAA only governs member schools which happen to be high schools so I am not sure what you are getting at here?
The same rules applies to all members. If someone wants their 7th or 8th grade child to play JV or Varsity, they must go to a member high school that has an "attached" junior high. This is a small percentage of member schools and I'd bet that most are smaller public schools or private schools. I don't think anyone thinks that this is an unfair advantage competition wise.

The only instance that I can see in which a member school could have an advantage by having an "attached" junior high would be to have an out of zone student (mostly talking private schools here) attend in 6th or 7th grade to have their sit out year (for living out of zone) and then participate the next year. This would be instead of attending in 9th grade and not being eligible until 10th grade. But as you can see, the junior high kids under the "attached" member high school, still have to meet all of the same eligibility requirements. Now of course, while sitting out that year, the child can of course play JR HIGH sports since the LHSAA has nothing to do with JR. HIGH sports.