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Post by laffysoccermom on Dec 16, 2012 8:33:30 GMT -6
I always thought handling calls in box were a PK. However, in our middle school game yesterday, we were given indirect kicks. One call was a player standing next to her goalie on the line and she swatted the ball down like she was the goalie. We were given a free kick from the corner of box nearest the goal. No big deal if the ref made a bad call. The game wasn't close and he looked scared to death.
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Post by premier on Dec 16, 2012 10:01:47 GMT -6
It's supposed to be a PK. If what you say is true, it should have even been a red card for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity by handling. Just a mistake by the referee and a good opportunity to learn from it. Handballs in the box by the defending team should be PKs and cards at the higher levels according to the laws of the game.(yellow if ball goes in goal regardless, red if handling denied goal)
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Post by laffysoccermom on Dec 16, 2012 13:36:58 GMT -6
That's what I thought. I am glad they didn't card her although that is the rule. We ended up beating them 8-0 despite our coach swiching everyone around. We only had one sun so we couldn't sub out best players. The other team seemed like it was made up of players that had never played. They kept dribbling out from the kickoff line despite the ref trying to explain that the kicking off player couldn't touch it twice in a row. Finally the ref gave up on that.
I was just curious. We should have had two PKs but at the end of the day, it didn't matter. Hopefully the young ref will get proper instruction. He would also motion for one team to take a throw I but wouldn't stop them if the other team took it.
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Post by happyjack on Dec 19, 2012 23:37:43 GMT -6
Of course, at the middle school level he may have noticed the blowout and opted to not give a PK...may have even bad a word with the coach about it. I've seen it happen before. Always thought it was a bit harsh to award a PK when a team is up by 5 or more. Although it is better to act like you didn't see it than give an incorrect restart
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Post by laffysoccermom on Dec 20, 2012 6:58:46 GMT -6
Maybe so, it was a strange game for sure. It would have been difficult for him to pretend not to see them especially the second. The player actually knocked her own goalie over going for the ball with her hands.
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Post by happyjack on Dec 21, 2012 22:44:05 GMT -6
Well, seeing as everyone "knows" refs are blind...
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dulac
All-District
Posts: 204
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Post by dulac on Jan 27, 2013 9:56:31 GMT -6
Referees, I don't know how many times we have to revisit this topic, but it's a handling call (hand ball to you laymen)when and only when the ball is handled deliberately or it's not a natural playing position. It's NOT when the ball is kicked into the hand/arm or when it bounces into the hand/arm. I rarely have more than one handling call in any given match. Do not fall prey to coaches, fans and players yelling "hand ball" every time the ball hits the hand or arm. Thank you.
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Post by ragincajun1965 on Mar 23, 2013 8:14:58 GMT -6
Referees, I don't know how many times we have to revisit this topic, but it's a handling call (hand ball to you laymen)when and only when the ball is handled deliberately or it's not a natural playing position. It's NOT when the ball is kicked into the hand/arm or when it bounces into the hand/arm. I rarely have more than one handling call in any given match. Do not fall prey to coaches, fans and players yelling "hand ball" every time the ball hits the hand or arm. Thank you. . |
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Post by brfutbol on Feb 1, 2014 23:40:38 GMT -6
when the ball is kicked into the hand/arm or when it bounces into the hand/arm. Do not fall prey to coaches, fans and players yelling "hand ball" every time the ball hits the hand or arm.
PLEASE make sure that the refs know that it IS a hand ball IF the arm is away from the body and ball is kicked against the hand/arm. Intent has absolutely nothing to do with it. That is why ,any professional defender purposefully placed their arms behind their backs when defending the box.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 2, 2014 2:39:18 GMT -6
That is why ,any professional defender purposefully placed their arms behind their backs when defending the box. Actually, they join arms to fill the space between their bodies, to make for a bigger wall...which makes their profiles larger, and handling would be called should it strike their joined extended arms in this fashion. |
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Post by happyjack on Feb 2, 2014 16:10:19 GMT -6
when the ball is kicked into the hand/arm or when it bounces into the hand/arm. Do not fall prey to coaches, fans and players yelling "hand ball" every time the ball hits the hand or arm. PLEASE make sure that the refs know that it IS a hand ball IF the arm is away from the body and ball is kicked against the hand/arm. Intent has absolutely nothing to do with it. That is why ,any professional defender purposefully placed their arms behind their backs when defending the box. Arm in an unnatural playing position or moving your arm to the ball...both are done with intent. Distance does play into intent or not, as does position of your arm. Arm against your body and ball strikes it, I'm never making that call. Arm extended wide or high, easy call. I've yet to see anyone unintentionally extend their arms to make themselves bigger |
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Post by brfutbol on Feb 3, 2014 22:02:39 GMT -6
Even if the arm IS in a natural position - sliding to ground and arm is still in the air - and ball hits arm, it is still a hand ball. Again it may be a natural position when a player jumps to extend his arms, but if ball hits his arm, it's a hand ball.
If the arms are not against the body and the ball hits the arm, it's a hand ball. The issue of "intent" has no place in this decision making.
Sundays athletico Madrid game, 2nd half reflected two hand ball calls similar to those described here.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 4, 2014 1:10:49 GMT -6
(sigh).....
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Post by happyjack on Feb 4, 2014 5:53:30 GMT -6
Even if the arm IS in a natural position - sliding to ground and arm is still in the air - and ball hits arm, it is still a hand ball. Again it may be a natural position when a player jumps to extend his arms, but if ball hits his arm, it's a hand ball. If the arms are not against the body and the ball hits the arm, it's a hand ball. The issue of "intent" has no place in this decision making. Sundays athletico Madrid game, 2nd half reflected two hand ball calls similar to those described here. So if yur back is turned and the ball hits your arm, your saying call handling? |
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Post by cardsinhand on Feb 4, 2014 10:25:27 GMT -6
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Post by brfutbol on Feb 4, 2014 11:08:22 GMT -6
Even if the arm IS in a natural position - sliding to ground and arm is still in the air - and ball hits arm, it is still a hand ball. Again it may be a natural position when a player jumps to extend his arms, but if ball hits his arm, it's a hand ball. If the arms are not against the body and the ball hits the arm, it's a hand ball. The issue of "intent" has no place in this decision making. Sundays athletico Madrid game, 2nd half reflected two hand ball calls similar to those described here. So if yur back is turned and the ball hits your arm, your saying call handling? YES, example: defender facing keeper with arm up to adjust wall, ball is kicked into his arm. Hand ball is called; defender jumps and turns his back, in doing so extends a "chicken wing", ball hits it (its a natural position to do this in trying to generate your turn), ball hits arm, hand ball is called. If in anyway the defender becomes larger, obtains an advantage, and the arm is away from the body - hand ball should be called. As exasperated as you get when fans scream "hand ball" when its not, it is the same for others to hear a ref, state, it was unintentional! Intent should be used as a last criteria used. It is almost like many of the newer refs, doing middle school games see a defender swing at the ball, miss and they kick the offensive player - no foul, he didn't mean to, no intent.
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Post by brfutbol on Feb 4, 2014 11:11:49 GMT -6
So if yur back is turned and the ball hits your arm, your saying call handling? YES, example: defender facing keeper with arm up to adjust wall, ball is kicked into his arm. Hand ball is called; defender jumps and turns his back, in doing so extends a "chicken wing", ball hits it (its a natural position to do this in trying to generate your turn), ball hits arm, hand ball is called. If in anyway the defender becomes larger, obtains an advantage, and the arm is away from the body - hand ball should be called. As exasperated as you get when fans scream "hand ball" when its not, it is the same for others to hear a ref, state, it was unintentional! Intent should be used as a last criteria used. It is almost like many of the newer refs, doing middle school games see a defender swing at the ball, miss and they kick the offensive player - no foul, he didn't mean to, no intent.
This is called weekly in La Liga and EPL as providing an advantage to the defending team.
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dulac
All-District
Posts: 204
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Post by dulac on Feb 4, 2014 11:57:16 GMT -6
brfutbol, if you are ref, I would suggest attending one of the many state sponsored advanced referee clinics where the keynote speaker is always a National Referee Instructor. You will learn the difference between your perception and reality of a true handling call (or non-call). Heck, even if you aren't a ref, it may do you good to attend the clinic. I'm sure you would be welcomed.
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Post by happyjack on Feb 5, 2014 19:47:31 GMT -6
I checked with the first PDF from "cardsinhand"...seems that my interpretation and what I also see on the field and in professional games, is very closely aligned to my perception. But sincerely I will look into the advanced referee classes. I do know that the majority of refs are trying to do the best they can.... If your a referee please read the referee code of conduct about criticizing officials publicly |
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Post by laffysoccermom on Feb 5, 2014 21:12:37 GMT -6
Wow! Love it when posts from a year ago get new life breathed in them.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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