p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Oct 23, 2013 20:13:12 GMT -6
We will use a different process for reporting stats this year. Instead of recording them as a post in a thread and then re-keying them by a data volunteer into the database, we will be using Google Forms. This stats thread will be primarily for hosting the link to the new Forms. Questions about stats, etc. can be addressed here. Any stats entered in the thread will be ignored (or deleted) and not included in the stats spreadsheet so please follow the new process. For you stats people out there, please decide on what name you will use with each player and be consistent. Don't change Andrew to Andy nor James to Jim once the season gets rolling. It will cause 2 different people to get credit (erroneously). Also, please ALWAYS go with LAST name, then FIRST name (or the data may not get picked up and credited properly). There are 2 different forms. 1 for Field Players and 1 for Goal Keepers. Explanations are included on each form. Click on the links to enter the stats:
Where does the data go? Once entered in the Google Form (and submitted at bottom of form), the data will automatically appear in a Google Spreadsheet where it will be visible to everyone (click on these links to view responses).
Class/Position?In order to present complete information, you may enter the names, class/grade, and positions of those players that have recorded any stat (goal, assist, goals allowed, saves) using the form with link below. You may also enter for players that haven't yet recorded a stat (or wait until they do). Leader Scoreboard?Remember, we have a new process this year for reporting stats. There will be questions and toe stubs. Please be patient. Ask when something looks odd. Help us work through it. Post in this thread to highlight any issues. Keep in mind that these stats are ONLY based on those schools that report their stats - not everyone will. Data is sorted for Field Players by "Points" (1 for a goal and 0.5 for an assist). Data is sorted for Goal Keepers by SSPGA (shots saved / goals allowed). The table allows you to filter by team, division, etc. You can also sort in a number of ways. Anyone with at least one goal allowed or one save will be included. They will be updated about once/week or when a lot of stats have been submitted. Goal Keeper Leader Board
NOTE: Leader Boards updated with final stats.
(Note: subsequent reported errors/changes will be corrected with next update)
FAQ's and other comments
* Entering stats * Last name and THEN First name * Separate with a SPACE after the COMMA * Be 100% consistent in spellings * ANY differences in names are assumed to be 2 different people * Zero's are not necessary to enter (same as blank) * Errors should be PM'd to me immediately (for easiest correction)
* Use of filters * Select just your team or any team * Review just a particular Division or Grade
* Shootouts * Shootout Goals and Saves do NOT count towards stats * Penalty Kicks during a game DO count
* Scrimmages? * Game results and stat results from Scrimmages do NOT count
* Flow of information? 1) Fill out a form 2) Shows up immediately on Response Summary 3) Periodically copied from Google Docs & run thru Excel 4) Published to Leader Boards
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Post by methuselah on Oct 23, 2013 21:06:07 GMT -6
This is excellent. Tried it out and worked flawlessly for me. Seems like it will cut down on the effort on both sides - makes it really easy for stat keepers to enter the data and I know it must save a lot of retyping by the people who collected the data. Good work!
I have no substantive suggestions. The only thing I could think about (and it's admittedly just extreme laziness on my part) is maybe on the very last screen, in addition to the "submit another form" and "create your own" links, there could be one that simply said "exit" or "return to LaPrep" or something like that. For a second I was like "er, I don't want to do either of those things". Till I realized that duh, I could just close the tab.
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Post by justthestats on Nov 20, 2013 20:40:33 GMT -6
GOALKEEPER STATS
Well, I guess the earlier in the season we address this the better.
Fellow Stat-keepers PLEASE......PLEASE......PLEASE let's refrain from recording a "Save" every time the goalkeeper touches the ball. In an effort to clarify this often hazy issue, I submit the following from the NCAA Official Soccer Statistics Rules - Approved Rulings and Interpretations.
Here is the definition of a "Save":
SECTION 6—GOALKEEPING
Article 1. A save is awarded to a goalkeeper only if a shot otherwise would have gone into the goal. A goalkeeper can be credited with a save without catching the ball. If the goalkeeper blocks the ball or punches it wide or over the goal, that goalkeeper can be credited with a save, provided the ball would have otherwise gone into the goal. To receive a save, the play must be a shot on goal. A goalkeeper cannot receive credit for a save on a cross. (See exception in Section 3, Article 2.)
Here is the definition of a "Shot":
SECTION 3—SHOTS
Article 1. A shot is an attempt that is taken with the intent of scoring and is directed toward the goal.
Article 2. A cross or crossing pass is not a shot. A cross is a long kick from a wide position into the penalty area in front of the goal. The intent of a cross is to set up a scoring opportunity for an attacking player. A goalkeeper who intercepts a cross is not credited with a save. Exception: A cross that the goalkeeper stops that otherwise would have entered the goal is considered a shot, and the goalkeeper is credited with a save.
A.R. 1. Allen dribbles the ball the length of the field in the direction of the opponent’s net. He dribbles the ball toward the corner before lofting a pass in front of the net to Abujidan. However, while the ball is still in the air, Bates, Team B's goalkeeper, grabs it to prevent the shot on goal. RULING: Even though the keeper grabbed the ball, it is not considered a save because the intent of the offensive player was to pass to another player and not to shoot. Allen is not credited with a shot, and Bates is not credited with a save.
Article 3. A shot on goal is a shot that is on net. The results of a shot on goal must be either a save by the goalkeeper or defending team or a goal by the attacking team. A shot that hits the post or crossbar without being deflected by a goalkeeper or defender and does not cross the goal line is not a shot on goal.
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Post by methuselah on Nov 21, 2013 9:22:37 GMT -6
Here's a quick question: If a player has one or more goals but no assists (or one or more assists but no goals) do we have to click the zero (0) button in the table for the stat they didn't have any of. Or can we just not click anything in that stat? Which way is preferred? I think either way is fine. Clicking the zero makes it clear, but I think the math should work fine either way. I'll know better as we continue to move through the live testing phase. Thanks. I'll do it with the zero from here on in. Thanks for all the work you put into this. It is very convenient to enter the stats. Darryl
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 3, 2013 10:32:20 GMT -6
Thanks. What if a field player is also the back-up keeper. Do i need to submit a player form twice? No. It should be okay. It may miss picking up his class and automatically treat him as a goalkeeper. If it does, you can PM me and point it out.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 8, 2013 12:33:08 GMT -6
Another question: If a given game results in no offensive stats for the team during run of play, is there any reason we should do a form just showing the names of the teams that played and the date and no entries under players? Or can we just not do a form for field players at all for that game? No form is necessary. The database picks up total games from the standings portion of the database.
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Post by Futbolmaniac on Dec 9, 2013 15:46:23 GMT -6
P_malinich...If certain players are missing or absent from a game(s), how does the stats recognize that absence into effect for goals per game average? Since the average is goals divided by number of games played. It's player goals divided by TEAM games. There are so many variables (full game vs shortened tourney game, some teams play 12 games & others play 25+, etc.) that we just try to give some level of performance. Keep in mind also that not all teams provide stats so there are likely high stat generators out there that will never show up on this list. The totals capture the individual performance (regardless of how many games, etc.). The averages "try" to capture impact on their team (and their absence can negatively affect their team). I was just trying to see if there is a way of getting a true average, guess too many variables involve not to say strength of opponents too. Example: Say player's team played 10 games ....he scored 20 goals ....Average would be 2.0 goals per game. However; If player actually played only in 7 games with 20 goals....his TRUE average should be 2.85 Thx for all that you do ..system functioning very well!
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 9, 2013 16:19:18 GMT -6
If you can convince everyone to record minutes played, we'll be happy to switch it to gpmp Why minutes??? try seconds ha ha.....that was funny! I think you had a system a couple years back that was pretty good also that factor in opponent's strengths. Actually the last 2 years, lojic did a Players' Rating at END of year that factored in strength of opponent. The twist on that was that you couldn't include any out-of-state games (because we used Power Rating as the strength indicator). These running stats are what we've been using during the year. And yes, we talked about going to minutes, but figured that it's challenging enough to get the stats we do get (let alone playing time).
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 16, 2013 17:20:40 GMT -6
p_malinich- Are stats counted when a varsity team played a JV team in a tourney? My boy was missing from the Carencro tourney, need to know so I can hunt down the stats. Thx The current position is that stats for: * out-of-state games WILL be included * JV games WILL NOT be included So if you're participating in stats reporting, please DO include any out-of-state games, but NOT JV games. As a side note, for the last 2 years, we did a player rating, which allowed strength of opponent to factor into the calculation. We've not decided if we will do that this year. If we do, since Power Rating is used, the stats for those out-of-state games go away from that calculation. Since it's an average anyway (not a cumulative number), it's not a big deal. Just wanted to point that out.
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Post by methuselah on Dec 19, 2013 4:38:29 GMT -6
Need help from the stat gurus on a deflection goal. I think I know the answer to this but I want to be sure before I enter it:
Player A shoots. It is impossible to tell 100% but more likely than not it appears the shot would have been on goal without the deflection. Shot deflects off of player B (same team as player A) changing it's trajectory and spin some and it goes past the hands of the leaping GK for a goal.
Who gets credited with the goal? I think its player A but I've never had this one before so I figured I'd throw it out thee to you guys.
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Post by beauchenecoach on Dec 19, 2013 6:00:08 GMT -6
Need help from the stat gurus on a deflection goal. I think I know the answer to this but I want to be sure before I enter it: Player A shoots. It is impossible to tell 100% but more likely than not it appears the shot would have been on goal without the deflection. Shot deflects off of player B (same team as player A) changing it's trajectory and spin some and it goes past the hands of the leaping GK for a goal. Who gets credited with the goal? I think its player A but I've never had this one before so I figured I'd throw it out thee to you guys. If its last nights final BC goal you are talking about, it would still go to Brock. I have it down as 2 shots on goal by him, the first one saved by the deflection, then the second "touch" off of him into the net for the goal. I'm just assuming it was that goal last night from your description of it. If it's the goal by Lutcher, I didn't know it was touched by a second player, but that would explain the weird manner it floated into the goal as it was at he far goal from me and neither my statistician nor I asked about it to be honest. And lastly, wish I had known you were there, could have finally met?
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Post by methuselah on Dec 19, 2013 7:09:02 GMT -6
Hey coach: Unfortunately I couldn't be there. (couldn't make the trip mid-week). But my wonderful wife recorded it for me.
Yeah it was last night but the Lutcher goal. Both kids live within 100 yards of me (the "deflector" in my house:)) And have been good naturedly going back and forth the whole ride home from what I hear. So I'll catch some ribbing no matter what I put. But I think it's the shooter's goal from what I see on on the recording and everything I hear. Just wanted to make sure my appreciation of the rule is right - if it was on goal anyway, the shooter would get the goal is my understanding?
Congratulations by the way. Great game to watch even on disc. Your #12 is maybe the best throw in guy I've seen at HS level - he was putting them near the back post from way back near the halfway line. And #7 has some great speed and moves. And of course Brock Hollier with the hat trick. His accuracy is amazing. Really wish I could have gone to see the game in person.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 19, 2013 7:25:14 GMT -6
Need help from the stat gurus on a deflection goal. I think I know the answer to this but I want to be sure before I enter it: Player A shoots. It is impossible to tell 100% but more likely than not it appears the shot would have been on goal without the deflection. Shot deflects off of player B (same team as player A) changing it's trajectory and spin some and it goes past the hands of the leaping GK for a goal. Who gets credited with the goal? I think its player A but I've never had this one before so I figured I'd throw it out thee to you guys. I'm going to ignore BC's response since it adds description to a particular game, which I didn't see. I'm gong to stick with your scenario & give my thoughts on it (and related issues). I am pulling the guidelines and drawing conclusions based on a stats manual provided by Iowa HS Athletic Association (and generally seem to make sense to me): Attachment Deleted. I've attached it here because at quick glance, it looks like it could be a helpful resource. 1) In determining a shot/save ... Was there intent by Player A to shoot the ball? A) If so, it's a shot for player and save for keeper (if he prevents it from crossing goal line). B) If not, then no shot nor save is recorded. In your example, it sounds like there was intent for Player A to shoot. 2) In determining an own goal ... A) If the shot was on target before contact with defender or GK, it's a goal. B) If the shot was NOT on target, but was deflected/re-directed into the net, then it's an OWN goal. In your example, this isn't relevant because Player B was an offensive player.
The manual actually spells out item A below and I believe they rightly apply the concepts of items 1 & 2. I've added B on my own based on similar thinking. A) IF the ball by Player A was a shot and on target, and IF Player B unintentionally contacts it, but it still goes in, THEN it is recorded as a goal for Player A. B) IF the ball by Player A was NOT on target, then Player B would get awarded the goal (much like a defender's own goal). C) IF the re-direction by Player B was intentional, then Player B would get awarded the goal.
So there's still some interpretation involved as to whether it would've gone in or not, but using the scenario you describe, I would award Player A the goal.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 19, 2013 7:27:09 GMT -6
Yeah it was last night but the Lutcher goal. Both kids live within 100 yards of me (the "deflector" in my house:)) And have been good naturedly going back and forth the whole ride home from what I hear. So I'll catch some ribbing no matter what I put. But I think it's the shooter's goal from what I see on on the recording and everything I hear. Just wanted to make sure my appreciation of the rule is right - if it was on goal anyway, the shooter would get the goal is my understanding? Let your son read the manual I just posted - it may help keep peace in your house!
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Post by beauchenecoach on Dec 19, 2013 7:34:41 GMT -6
Methuselah, if there was a deflection, then the first shot that was going on target, would be recorded as the assist and the deflection that sent the ball into the net past he keeper was the goal scorer. So your son, gets the goal since he got the scoring touch on the ball, while the original shooter actually would get the assist and not the corner kick taker that started it.
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Post by methuselah on Dec 19, 2013 7:35:41 GMT -6
Thanks! That's exactly the interpretation I was looking for. (No worries about peace though - just a little more ammo the next time I get into a little game of one upsmanship with him
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Post by beauchenecoach on Dec 19, 2013 7:37:42 GMT -6
Paul has a great explanation there! I disagree with the unintentional part as it isn't anyone's job to determine intent. The final touch that put the ball into the net is the scoring touch unless an own goal is involved... And even then, own goals themselves can be opinionated.... If it's smashed and goes off a defender, it's not an own goal in my book. It's only an own goal when the defender makes a PLAY on the ball and his touch or kick or header or first touch causes the goal, then it's an own goal. For the one you are looking for, since I saw it live (just didn't realize it was deflected in from my view but it does explain the balls weird trajectory into the net), the last touch on ball actually scored the goal so go with that and give the original shooter the assist.
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Post by justthestats on Dec 19, 2013 12:07:19 GMT -6
Paul has a great explanation there! I disagree with the unintentional part as it isn't anyone's job to determine intent. The final touch that put the ball into the net is the scoring touch unless an own goal is involved... And even then, own goals themselves can be opinionated.... If it's smashed and goes off a defender, it's not an own goal in my book. It's only an own goal when the defender makes a PLAY on the ball and his touch or kick or header or first touch causes the goal, then it's an own goal. For the one you are looking for, since I saw it live (just didn't realize it was deflected in from my view but it does explain the balls weird trajectory into the net), the last touch on ball actually scored the goal so go with that and give the original shooter the assist. Agree with you BC...... intent is a highly subjective notion and not to be relied on.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Dec 19, 2013 23:42:46 GMT -6
Leader Boards have been updated as of tonight with stats reported thru 11:30 p.m. today.
It took nearly double the time it should because I had 2 schools enter multiple games with many players and didn't list names as LAST, FIRST.
PLEASE make sure that you are not in that category. I made the changes tonight & PM'd the reporters. But we're far enough into the process that those type of errors should not be happening. Next time, I will ask the reporter to re-enter the data in the correct format. Everyone is anxious to see the updates, but with those kind of delays, it creates unnecessary work (that will need to get pushed back to the reporters to fix).
That said, I'm not talking to those of you that make a typo & realize it immediately & PM me. Those are pretty easy to fix as long as it's right after it happened & just a simple error.
Everyone clear??
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Post by mswatd on Dec 29, 2013 19:24:31 GMT -6
Please delete 132 Colin, Salvadore. I mistakenly have Sal's name spelled incorrectly and input twice. I will try to prevent this mishap in the future! Sorry guys! Colin, Salvador - 4 goals and 3 assists on the season. Unfortunately, it's a little more complicated than that. Because these results have been published to the Leader Board, we need to go to multiple places and correct each occurrence in order for the totals to reflect correctly. If we simply delete 132, he's never going to get credit for the games where he was mis-reported. Please let us know which games (date & opponent) you mis-spelled his name so that they can be corrected in both locations to get him proper credit. I'll do what I can! Is there a way for me to find his stats in detail? I have each games stats recorded but just need a hard copy of what I've sent in.
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