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Post by methuselah on Jan 23, 2014 10:39:47 GMT -6
I apologize if this question has been addressed in another thread, but I couldn't seem to find it if it was. Do "tie-breaking" PKs count toward individual stats? In other words, if your match ends in a draw and you must go to PKs to decide a winner, do those count for a player? pretty sure they do not.
A pk scored during regulation does count. PKs in shootouts don't.
Hall is correct. A more interesting question which came up in one of these threads but was not really hashed out is: Should assists ever be awarded to the person who is fouled if the PK is taken and made by a teammate (during regulation of course)? I don't count it as an assist but there seemed to be at least some support for that position (and it does make a certain type of intuitive sense).
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Jan 23, 2014 11:19:22 GMT -6
I apologize if this question has been addressed in another thread, but I couldn't seem to find it if it was. Do "tie-breaking" PKs count toward individual stats? In other words, if your match ends in a draw and you must go to PKs to decide a winner, do those count for a player? pretty sure they do not.
A pk scored during regulation does count. PKs in shootouts don't.
Agreed. PKs during the game result in a goal and are therefore considered for stats. I've seen some places talk about assists for the person getting fouled, but I personally don't handle them that way. There's no official position on LA Prep. PKs during shootouts do NOT count. That phase of the game is more accurately called shots-from-the-mark I believe. As far as stats, I liken it to a coin toss in that all it does is to determine a winner or a team to advance. Neither goals nor saves count in this scenario.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 11:26:26 GMT -6
pretty sure they do not.
A pk scored during regulation does count. PKs in shootouts don't.
Hall is correct. A more interesting question which came up in one of these threads but was not really hashed out is: Should assists ever be awarded to the person who is fouled if the PK is taken and made by a teammate (during regulation of course)? I don't count it as an assist but there seemed to be at least some support for that position (and it does make a certain type of intuitive sense). First, I believe they should. Because the foul presents a shot on goal.
I believe Shreve had a player draw a pk this season and was awarded the assist.
It makes just as much sense (if not more than) as a player who takes a shot that is deflected and another scores.
I'm not sure which leagues (pro or college) if any, count drawing a pk as an assist...but they certainly should.
On another note, I would also like to see recognition for players who make what's known as "key passes" as well as players who "create chances".
Granted there is a certain crossover between chances created and key passes.
key passes are passes that directly lead to a shot.
Creating chances would involve a player making a run inside the penalty area that is more than one pass from an actual shot. But not exclusively...this is just an example.
Key passes would include crosses and through balls.
A defensive midfielder or even a defender often quickly win the ball and play a quick penetrating pass that unbalances the opposition and create shots on goal.
Admittedly this would probably have to be a separate spreadsheet. But I am all for recognizing these key moments in a game that rarely are recognized.
Along with the tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances, 50/50 balls won, etc. that are often overlooked.
All these game variables are just as important as goals, assists and saves. Because these are things that allow teams to attack and score goals.
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Post by pOkLE on Jan 23, 2014 14:30:32 GMT -6
Hall is correct. A more interesting question which came up in one of these threads but was not really hashed out is: Should assists ever be awarded to the person who is fouled if the PK is taken and made by a teammate (during regulation of course)? I don't count it as an assist but there seemed to be at least some support for that position (and it does make a certain type of intuitive sense). First, I believe they should. Because the foul presents a shot on goal.
I believe Shreve had a player draw a pk this season and was awarded the assist.
It makes just as much sense (if not more than) as a player who takes a shot that is deflected and another scores.
I'm not sure which leagues (pro or college) if any, count drawing a pk as an assist...but they certainly should.
On another note, I would also like to see recognition for players who make what's known as "key passes" as well as players who "create chances".
Granted there is a certain crossover between chances created and key passes.
key passes are passes that directly lead to a shot.
Creating chances would involve a player making a run inside the penalty area that is more than one pass from an actual shot. But not exclusively...this is just an example.
Key passes would include crosses and through balls.
A defensive midfielder or even a defender often quickly win the ball and play a quick penetrating pass that unbalances the opposition and create shots on goal.
Admittedly this would probably have to be a separate spreadsheet. But I am all for recognizing these key moments in a game that rarely are recognized.
Along with the tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances, 50/50 balls won, etc. that are often overlooked.
All these game variables are just as important as goals, assists and saves. Because these are things that allow teams to attack and score goals.
Problem is there's no way to track this stuff. All very important but not trackable at the high school level.
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Post by methuselah on Jan 23, 2014 15:27:41 GMT -6
I agree with Pokle. Maybe EPL teams might have the resources to track these types of stats. But not in High School soccer. Unless you try something like assigning a JV player to track each varsity position/player's stats. And even then I don't think you could do it with any type of success.
I do agree, though, that it is a shame that the contributions of the defenders and defensive mid fielders are not recognized in the stats. Because, face it, they are a huge part of a successful team.
I know when I do the weekly article and photos for the local paper I go out of my way to recognize the defenders. Try to keep it from just being a listing of goals and assists. And the parents who take such great pictures and post of Facebook, etc. likewise give some well deserved attention to the defenders.
One of my favorite things is when there is a game with a comfortable lead and the defenders are given a chance to play up front. I don't think I've ever seen a team work so hard and with so much teamwork as when they are trying to get a kid who has toiled brilliantly on defense for years a goal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 22:02:00 GMT -6
First, I believe they should. Because the foul presents a shot on goal.
I believe Shreve had a player draw a pk this season and was awarded the assist.
It makes just as much sense (if not more than) as a player who takes a shot that is deflected and another scores.
I'm not sure which leagues (pro or college) if any, count drawing a pk as an assist...but they certainly should.
On another note, I would also like to see recognition for players who make what's known as "key passes" as well as players who "create chances".
Granted there is a certain crossover between chances created and key passes.
key passes are passes that directly lead to a shot.
Creating chances would involve a player making a run inside the penalty area that is more than one pass from an actual shot. But not exclusively...this is just an example.
Key passes would include crosses and through balls.
A defensive midfielder or even a defender often quickly win the ball and play a quick penetrating pass that unbalances the opposition and create shots on goal.
Admittedly this would probably have to be a separate spreadsheet. But I am all for recognizing these key moments in a game that rarely are recognized.
Along with the tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances, 50/50 balls won, etc. that are often overlooked.
All these game variables are just as important as goals, assists and saves. Because these are things that allow teams to attack and score goals.
Problem is there's no way to track this stuff. All very important but not trackable at the high school level. Funny how its easy to figure out how many yards some running back rushed for. Or how many interceptions a safety or cornerback made. or rebounds. field goal%....free throw percentage.... 3 point shots...
Okay, I've made my point.
It works in every other sport.
granted, most of these other sport stats consist of an endless, never ending series of set pieces...
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Post by pOkLE on Jan 24, 2014 17:23:11 GMT -6
Problem is there's no way to track this stuff. All very important but not trackable at the high school level. Funny how its easy to figure out how many yards some running back rushed for. Or how many interceptions a safety or cornerback made. or rebounds. field goal%....free throw percentage.... 3 point shots...
Okay, I've made my point.
It works in every other sport.
granted, most of these other sport stats consist of an endless, never ending series of set pieces...
No, my point is that no team is (or not near enough teams are) equipped to take these stats. Let's face it, we already have a fair amount of debate regarding the simple stats we presently keep. My point is that it's not realistic to keep these stats on a large-scale basis....even though they're insightful and helpful. Start the movement. Start keeping the stats that paint the fuller picture of the North LA games. Set up a training system while you're at it so that we'll all use the same definitions for stats. And go!
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oranje
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Post by oranje on Jan 24, 2014 19:18:12 GMT -6
I believe it ultimately boils down to our definition of an 'assist'; is it a 'pass' that leads to a goal or is it a 'play'. If the basis is a 'pass' then no, if 'play' then yes, a pk award leading to a goal should be credited in my view.
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Post by soccerstudier on Feb 4, 2014 19:33:16 GMT -6
I have the year-long stats for a goalkeeper, where may I turn those in?
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 4, 2014 20:24:52 GMT -6
I have the year-long stats for a goalkeeper, where may I turn those in? Follow the instructions at the top of the thread.
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Post by pOkLE on Feb 4, 2014 22:19:23 GMT -6
I have the year-long stats for a goalkeeper, where may I turn those in? Follow the instructions at the top of the thread. Epic response! [Read: "no I won't input them for you! but nice try.]
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:46:58 GMT -6
Funny how its easy to figure out how many yards some running back rushed for. Or how many interceptions a safety or cornerback made. or rebounds. field goal%....free throw percentage.... 3 point shots...
Okay, I've made my point.
It works in every other sport.
granted, most of these other sport stats consist of an endless, never ending series of set pieces...
No, my point is that no team is (or not near enough teams are) equipped to take these stats. Let's face it, we already have a fair amount of debate regarding the simple stats we presently keep. My point is that it's not realistic to keep these stats on a large-scale basis....even though they're insightful and helpful. Start the movement. Start keeping the stats that paint the fuller picture of the North LA games. Set up a training system while you're at it so that we'll all use the same definitions for stats. And go! I understand your point. And agree it would require a herculean effort. I've tried it before tracking a single player's touches and 1v1's. very exhausting. To the point it becomes impossible to watch the game itself. Let alone enjoy it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 10:58:25 GMT -6
I would like to see something done for defenders though. maybe 2 fairly simple stats. Like tackles won and interceptions. I would say 'clearances' as well but given the context of high school soccer, they are less important.
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Post by Saver19o on Feb 5, 2014 12:29:04 GMT -6
Are we going to continue adding stats to the same spreadsheet throughout the playoffs?
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 6, 2014 17:21:43 GMT -6
Are we going to continue adding stats to the same spreadsheet throughout the playoffs? Yes. Continue to add stats using the same process.
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 10, 2014 10:38:51 GMT -6
Leader Board updated with stats reported thru 10:30 a.m. on 2/10.
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Post by futbolfiend on Feb 10, 2014 11:02:20 GMT -6
Are we going to continue adding stats to the same spreadsheet throughout the playoffs? Yes. Continue to add stats using the same process. don't see my most recent entry in the raw data.......... made this morning 2/10/2014 for both field and GK forms got confirms from both.........
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 10, 2014 11:32:05 GMT -6
Yes. Continue to add stats using the same process. don't see my most recent entry in the raw data.......... made this morning 2/10/2014 for both field and GK forms got confirms from both......... Hmmmm.... I see an entry on Field Player at 11:00 so that was after cutoff unless that was 2nd entry of it. I don't see anything on Goal Keeper side. It's first I"m hearing any issue like that. Anyone else? I would suggest re-entering the Goal Keeper. Both will then get picked up Friday when I update after Regional Round.
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Post by futbolfiend on Feb 10, 2014 13:48:41 GMT -6
ok, I typically go and look at the form right after I enter the data just to make sure it was entered into the database, are you saying I won't be able to see my entries until you update the leader boards..?
also I must have entered stats for Ruston game incorrectly I will review, the scorecard is showing Shreve 5 Ruston 1 when it was only 4-1
...edit
ok I see my error for the Ruston game Shreve should have
Hammond, Nic 1 goal 0 assists Doughty, Andrew 0 goal 1 assist Usry, Chad 1 goal 1 assist Zagzoug, Nick 1 goal 0 assist Fuller, Ecotry 1 goal 0 assist Goree, Morgan 0 goal 1 assist
Score 4-1
still dont see the GK response so I will reenter that for the 2/7 game against Ruston...thanks Paul
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 10, 2014 13:53:25 GMT -6
ok, I typically go and look at the form right after I enter the data just to make sure it was entered into the database, are you saying I won't be able to see my entries until you update the leader boards..? also I must have entered stats for Ruston game incorrectly I will review, the scorecard is showing Shreve 5 Ruston 1 when it was only 4-1 No. You should still be able to see your entries in the Response Summary table when you enter them. I move them to a spreadsheet once/week (now once/round) and generate Leader Boards, which I then publish. It's unfortunately not an automatic link. Does that make sense? Squeak will take lead on changing score to 4-1 (which will also update online after this round is wrapped up).
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