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Post by sokerfan on Mar 9, 2014 22:12:28 GMT -6
With the district teams selected and most not posted, just want to know what people think about the systems currently in place in their districts.
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Post by sokerfan on Mar 9, 2014 22:33:46 GMT -6
In most districts you have 1 or 2 teams that have the best players in the district, and that is where most of the first team selections should come from. I beliere you should start with the District champs as a starting point. Then take team #2's best player and if that person is good enough to replace someone on the #1 team, then they should be on first team. It should continued this way for each team. It is highly unlikely that a player on a team that finishes the season near the bottom of an 8 team district will have a player good enough to crack the starting lineup of the #1 team.
I understand the coaches feel obligated to try to get their players on the team, but shouldn't this be earned. I believe those girls who get put on the list because of agreements between coaches, really know they do not deserve what they were given. I believe the coaches just don't want the district to be represented by players from just 1 or 2 teams even though they know they don't have a player that belongs on first team.
What do you think?
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Post by griffinfan on Mar 10, 2014 2:23:53 GMT -6
In the past, juniors and seniors made up 1st team, but now it looks like freshmen will get it even tho the higher classes have put in more work. Freshmen and sophomores should get honorable mention or 2nd team at the most.
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Post by macavity on Mar 10, 2014 4:46:19 GMT -6
In the past, juniors and seniors made up 1st team, but now it looks like freshmen will get it even tho the higher classes have put in more work. Freshmen and sophomores should get honorable mention or 2nd team at the most. It should be the best players, period. Class should not come into the equation. Barring freshmen and sophmores from first team consideration would be like denying them entry into the district track meet even though they had much better times. All-district is a one season award not a lifetime achievement award. If the freshman was the better player she should receive the honor. Going back to the original question, it stands to reason that the stronger teams will have more players but credit should also be given to superior players on teams that did not finish as high in the standings. However, I agree that a team that finishes at the bottom of a large district will likely end up without a player on the team. Not only might they not have a player good enough to start on the district champion's team, they may not have one that could start on the #2 or #3 team if it is a district with 2 or 3 teams that are clearly better than the rest. It is possible, but unlikely. Sokerfan's system actually seems like a good way, on a position by position basis, to recognize superior players from teams at the bottom of the standings. I wish politics, bargaining, ego, etc. did not come into the equation but do not believe that you can remove those with instituting an arbitrary system that would not work for anybody.
Finally, if the teams are chosen why aren't they being posted? What are the rules on the posting of the teams?
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Post by sokerfan on Mar 10, 2014 11:30:09 GMT -6
The rule is, as long as a team from your district is still in the playoffs, you cannot post or announce to the public the results of the balloting. Now that the Championship game has been played, All District selections can be announced.
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Post by cuttysark on Mar 10, 2014 12:19:06 GMT -6
The best players should get district honors. In our district the higher you finish the more picks you receive. So 1st place gets 5 votes 2nd place 4 3rd 2 and 4th 1
I also vote for best players regardless of class. Some of our best players were freshman this year. They shouldn't be penalized because of class. My 2 cents.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Mar 10, 2014 13:35:28 GMT -6
The best regardless of class should make it. Our district has 4 teams and we had 13 players on both the 1st and 2nd team when only 11 can play. Also had 2 keepers on 1st and 2 keepers on 2nd team so every keeper made 1st or 2nd team.
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Post by sokerfan on Mar 10, 2014 23:20:37 GMT -6
uhscubs1, said that all 4 goalkeepers made either 1st or second team. Do the coaches not think that if they picked 1 for each that the 2 left out wouldn't be okay with it? The girls are intelligent enough to know who the best 2 keepers are. But maybe it is about making every little Suzie happy. Then why not have a third team of players instead of leaving the remaining 14 players off of the ballot. That way EVERY little Suzie will be happy. Every body gets a trophy, yeah!!
Think about it coaches, if it was you back in your hay day busting you b--t, how did you feel when something was GIVEN to someone when you EARNED it?
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Post by Tordad35 on Mar 11, 2014 0:41:28 GMT -6
In most districts you have 1 or 2 teams that have the best players in the district, and that is where most of the first team selections should come from. I beliere you should start with the District champs as a starting point. Then take team #2's best player and if that person is good enough to replace someone on the #1 team, then they should be on first team. It should continued this way for each team. It is highly unlikely that a player on a team that finishes the season near the bottom of an 8 team district will have a player good enough to crack the starting lineup of the #1 team. I understand the coaches feel obligated to try to get their players on the team, but shouldn't this be earned. I believe those girls who get put on the list because of agreements between coaches, really know they do not deserve what they were given. I believe the coaches just don't want the district to be represented by players from just 1 or 2 teams even though they know they don't have a player that belongs on first team. What do you think? This seems a little like the chicken or the egg scenario to me. My thought is a well coached team of second team level players will beat a team with one or two first teamers if the rest of the team is at a lower level. So who would be deserving of the honor? The whole team, that won with individually lower level of skill but overall higher level of skill as a team, or the one or two higher level players that happen to be on a team with overall lower skill level? Decisions on all district selections should be made using a combination of data (district play stat sheets) and unbiased coaches opinion. The coaches (as a group) know who should and should not be first team selections. Do I 100% agree with our districts first team picks, nope. I am not sure how a team can have a player make first team on offense when the team only scored a total of 2 goals in all 8 of thier district games. That being said, I believe our district (1-3) is going to a system next year simular to the one Cuttysarks uses. |
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Post by uhscubs1 on Mar 11, 2014 4:54:12 GMT -6
District Honors are not really an honor anymore.
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Post by kevin on Mar 11, 2014 6:51:58 GMT -6
uhscubs1, said that all 4 goalkeepers made either 1st or second team. Do the coaches not think that if they picked 1 for each that the 2 left out wouldn't be okay with it? The girls are intelligent enough to know who the best 2 keepers are. But maybe it is about making every little Suzie happy. Then why not have a third team of players instead of leaving the remaining 14 players off of the ballot. That way EVERY little Suzie will be happy. Every body gets a trophy, yeah! About keepers: a lot of districts use the system that cuttysark mentioned where each team gets a set number of spots. At that point it's up to each coach to decide who should make it from his team. If the keeper is one of your best players, you're not going to keep her off the first or second team just because the other coaches also selected their keepers. Coaches' voting is problematic because while the coaches do have a good idea who should make it, they're put in a situation with lots of politics and potential for hurt feelings and retribution. Ideally you'd have enough media people to vote on these things, but alas, that's unlikely at this point in time. |
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Post by laffysoccermom on Mar 11, 2014 10:52:26 GMT -6
To say a last finishing team doesn't normally have a player worthy of first team could be wrong. You could have the best keeper in the state but if the rest of the team is extremely weak and can't finish, they could lose every game even if only 1 out of 30 shots make it in.
Likewise, best forward in the state could be on last place team if she rarely gets to touch ball. She may be unproven but actually be best in state.
Best is also dependent on who is evaluating. If only using statistics, it's easy- maybe not accurate given whole picture but easy. It's a difficult thing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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Post by sokerfan on Mar 11, 2014 17:28:34 GMT -6
Tordad35, I agree with you. How could a player make 1st team when they only scored 2 goals in district? Nothing against the girl, it is not her fault the coaches got it wrong.
Laffysoccermom, that is the case again this year in Div. I District 3. A keeper that did not make 1st, 2nd, or "honorable" mention, will make 1st or 2nd team all state as a goalkeeper. She is the best in the state but not the best in her district? There can only be one explanation, the coaches that didn't vote for her didn't get a chance to see her play because their players that made the all district team couldn't get close enough to take a shot. Mainly because the other non all district players kept them from crossing mid field.
Going with the automatic number according to the order of finish in district play would probably work in most districts, but it is still, this girl played all 4 years and deserves something. I agree all these girls deserve something, but they deserve awards at your teams athletic banquet and not at the expense of players who honestly deserve it.
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crodaddy
All-District
non contact sport??...
Posts: 159
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Post by crodaddy on Mar 12, 2014 11:44:38 GMT -6
Tordad and Sokerfan ya'll seem to have info we don't. I have yet to see anything on who made what in the local paper or on this site for Div. I District 3. If you have it please post it.
As for what I thinks it takes to make all district is very simple, when you walk on the pitch make a difference, not just to your team but to the game. Make the other coaches wish they had a player like you and they will remember you at all district time. Sokerfan I agree with you on your post
about a keeper that is not tested. why should a coach vote for a player when they never saw her do anything. Not knocking your keeper
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Post by Tordad35 on Mar 12, 2014 18:20:01 GMT -6
I don't have the complete lst only what was published in the local paper, so I wont post it in the "all-District" thread. Here is what was in the paper. Offensive MVP Monique Hundley Defensive MVP Haley Laque Coach of the year Stephen Devine "Acadiana" 1st Team Pos. Player School GK Peyton Montgomery Barbe GK Alexis Broussard Acadiana Off. Alexcia Alaexander Lafayette Off. Catla Hebert Lafayette Off. Fallon Roussell Sulphur Off. Kelli Sonnier Barbe Off. Baily Thomas Carencro Off. Monique Hundley Acadiana Def. Haley Laque Lafayette Def. Maggie Turpin Sulphur 2ND Team Megan Bryson Sulphur Allie Lee Sulphur Carleigh Chaumont Sam Houston Taylor Landry Sam Houston Hannah Fontenot Barbe Hon Men Kayla Sheridan Sulphur Shelby Mendibles (GK) Sulphur Sidney Brooks Sam Houston Tatum Johnson Barbe Ill try to get the complete list and post it. Read more: www.sulphurdailynews.com/article/20140305/Sports/140309794#ixzz2vnQuxHqO |
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Mar 12, 2014 20:50:07 GMT -6
Put the name of all starters from all teams in district in a hat and draw them out in order "......"..........there u go.
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Post by offsides on Mar 14, 2014 14:51:45 GMT -6
In the past, juniors and seniors made up 1st team, but now it looks like freshmen will get it even tho the higher classes have put in more work. Freshmen and sophomores should get honorable mention or 2nd team at the most. District 3 used to operate this way (seniors being selected over deserving underclassmen and honorable mention a mile long) but has not in the past several years, freshmen have been chosen over deserving seniors at times. It really is the politics and bargaining of the coaches and who shows up for the meeting. Petty jealousy/bargaining is abundant. Most of the votes promised before the meeting even occurs. I understand both of the chosen goalkeepers are great goalkeepers in a very tough district but to NOT give Larae a place on first team is just plain stupid. This will not be the first time an all state player did not make the district team. Thank goodness STM moved...  |
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Post by alto1smom on Mar 15, 2014 6:58:21 GMT -6
While this is mostly parents venting and making assumptions about how the teams are selected, a lot if this is true. If you are truly unhappy and want things to change, involve the principals. They have ALL the power. There are district teams that had MVPs on 2nd teams, the winning team without MVPs and all sorts of other foolishness. Principals have say so and can call a revote, set up regulations and FIRE coaches for embarrassing the school. The unfortunate issue is that soccer is a minor sport and most school's loose money on the program so it is not a focus. NO administrator wants negative attention because their coaches are making deals or blocking athletes for any reason.
Soccer is such a subjective sport that it may be harder to prove some cases. Other sports keep stats on EVERYTHING and bring them into the meeting. You can't argue stats and only district stats are taken into account so inflation is caught easily. There is also a transparency issue with soccer and secret voting, look at how the polls are done.
Change is possible--lobby through your administrators is you want change to occur (the media would run with a story about this as well).
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Post by kevin on Mar 15, 2014 10:47:20 GMT -6
A firing offense? Seriously? How is anyone ever going to come up with proof that Coach X was being corrupt on something that's a judgment call?
I think we all agree that there are politics and stupid decisions and quid pro quos.
But here is the problem: to fairly decide an all-district team (or all-state, all-metro, whatever), you ideally need people who are a) knowledgable and b) unbiased. Good luck finding anyone who's both.
First of all, in a big district, a coach might not even know who the best players are. If you've only seen Team A play against your own team, you may not know who's having a good season and who isn't. Not every single coach is closely involved with club ball. Not everyone knows exactly who the best players are, aside from reputation and the lobbying of the other coaches. Ultimately I don't think it's that big an issue for all-district teams. Most of the coaches know who the best players are. But it does make it virtually impossible for anyone else (apart from coaches, players, parents) to know enough to come up with their own all-district team.
Second, coaches are obviously biased toward their own teams. Possibly they're biased toward kids on other teams they know from coaching club ball. And they may be friends with some of the other coaches and not friends with the others. Even if it's unconscious, there can be bias. Or a coach can go out of his way to be unbiased, and unfairly penalize one of his own players or a player coached by one of his friends. Selecting the all-district teams and MVPs puts coaches in a very uncomfortable spot. Let's say you have two players in a district who are clearly the best. But honest, reasonable people could differ about which of the two is better. You've now put all the other coaches in a situation of having to play favorites between the players and their coaches. And that could come back to bite you in various ways in the future.
Ideally you'd have total anonymity, but in a small district that's obviously impossible. Or you'd have enough media people who know what they're doing to vote on things, but that's not all that likely either.
Most of the obviously stupid nonsense (MVPs on the second team) can be dealt with by better voting methods. Vote for the MVPs first. Anyone who makes MVP is automatically on the first team.
And ultimately, all these teams have to be taken with a grain of salt. If you make it, great. If not, move on with your life.
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Post by soccermom11 on Mar 19, 2014 20:42:45 GMT -6
After 18 years of soccer mom, I will now be just a mom. It has been great to be able to watch my son and daughter both have awesome high school and club careers My son went on to play at the college level. My daughter has had several offers but is ready to move on with other aspects of live.
Both of them were all district every year and even all state one year
A referee once told my son, "no one will remember who was on the all-district teams". I never forgot those words. And year after year as a look at the all-district teams I'm starting to realize why he said that. I don't know how these teams are chosen and I really don't try to understand. However, I have watched every district game of every year and WOW!!
I have truly enjoyed my time on the soccer boards both boys and girls. I'll be back hopefully as soccer Mimi one day.
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