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Post by CEBfan on Dec 16, 2014 12:30:50 GMT -6
Mortner, If you think scoring 24 or 14 against lesser opponents is ok then who am I to say anything different, to each his own. My only question is why on earth are we keeping stats and what is the significance of keeping them? If your team is scoring more goals than anyone in the state it stands to reason that you would have 4 out of the top 5 goal scorers on your team. I completely agree with archangel......Lets cut them off....know one cares how your top goal scorer does against a lesser team, how did they do against a top ten team.
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Post by Ronaldinho on Dec 16, 2014 12:43:12 GMT -6
Agree with socdad, myarsenal, and co. I sympathize with coaches who are in a situation where their team is just vastly superior in every aspect of the game compared to a weaker opponent, and it can be difficult to find the right solution for letting your kids play while also keeping the score down and respecting your opponent. No one wins in that situation, and you can even get criticized for not taking your opponent seriously if you start playing keep-away or other forced restrictions.
However, no matter the circumstances, pushing 20 goals is not right and should never happen, regardless of why the 2 teams are scheduled to play each other. Once you get near the double digit mark, it's time to not score ANY more goals, no matter which player is getting her name on the scoresheet, no matter how many restrictions the players are managing to overcome, no matter what you have to do to make sure the kids don't keep scoring. It's time for the goals to stop.
Soccdad makes a good point about the keeper who watches 19 goals go past her. No matter how it happened, that's humiliating for a player to experience. Some teams might not be full of all-state players but they still want to represent their school and enjoy the game. It's one thing to run up the score on professional adults who are paid to play well and not get blown out, but it has no place at the youth level in my opinion. I also loved archangel's recent point. Even if your opponent scores several goals on you and then obviously restrains from scoring when they could easily score more, which is already embarrassing - at least there isn't the added embarrassment of being the team who conceded the most goals anyone has ever heard of, when the score gets posted for everyone to see.
Unfortunately, there are a couple programs who are starting to become associated with totally excessive scorelines and possible stat-padding. Even if you're not trying to be unsportsmanlike or pad stats, that's how it comes across to 90% of the soccer community when you score SO many goals when it doesn't matter. Other teams also play totally inferior opponents every year without testing the record books of goals scored.
I'm sorry to post such a strongly worded opinion, and I know the coaches of these teams aren't evil villains who want to see other teams' kids suffer, but sometimes enough is enough and the criticism is valid, even if it seems explainable by the situation. No one remembers the circumstances, it's purely the number, the score, that will be remembered by the soccer community for all the wrong reasons.
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Post by alto1smom on Dec 16, 2014 14:04:44 GMT -6
As a former collegiate player (volleyball), a coach of OMG 18 years now in the LHSAA, this topic has a few right answers: 1. Mercy Rule ends game (teams can continue to play the game out for practice and we often do this in softball, we actually stop in the middle of plays to redo them and practice both teams)
2. Dominant team work on really getting better. These same athletes in club are invisible outside of the state, make them better. Give each athlete one skill to work on and MASTER--dribble with your left/right foot ONLY, cross with your left/right foot only. Trust me I have seen most of the girls in this state play and they ALL have a ton of things to work on starting with my own kids first!! Have them only one touch pass with their weak foot to move the ball and not one team in high school will possess for too long. This will make both teams better and benefit ALL players.
3. If you just want the David and Goliath match up don't report the score if you are too thin skinned to take the criticism. Do it and do it BIG. Tell everyone I did it, oh well, what are you going to do about it?!
Love this chatter. This is what will grow our sport!
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Post by neutralfan on Dec 16, 2014 14:34:36 GMT -6
Didn't mean to start a slanging match was just making observations. Someone said in one of their games after 7 or 8 goals the opposing coach made the call to only score with the head, that's fine but why start that a 7 surely you realize at 3 that it is going to be a long day. Also in the district games you must know the strengths and weaknesses of the opponents? Surely STA could have taken their JV with them to play against Pine and had them on the field inside of 10 minutes. Also would I be right in saying that goal difference does not come into play in deciding the power rankings or district champions? Thanks
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Post by legna on Dec 16, 2014 14:46:56 GMT -6
Let's put some numbers behind this. There were 44 games last year where the winning team scored more than 10 goals. Not counting the teams that did it just once, here is the list:
School | Times scored > 10 | Mandeville | 5 | St. Scholastica | 4 | Fontainebleau | 3 | Northshore | 3 | Pearl River | 3 | Benton | 2 | Deridder | 2 | Lakeshore | 2 | Loyola | 2 |
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Post by mortner on Dec 16, 2014 15:25:25 GMT -6
CEB fan,
I agree with you that no one cares about insignificant goals. Good luck finding SSA's stats from any year that I have coached. We don't care about them either.
The coach that scored 24 against Hammond last year was actually thanked after the game for having his players continue to try. Mine possessed, scored off crosses, etc. (which are every one thinks are great suggestions) and we were called poor sports for not putting forth our "best" effort. My point in all of this is that you don't know a situation until you are in it, but it is easy to judge from the sideline.
Legna, you have a lot of time on your hands. thanks for the graph.
At the end of the day I am blessed to part of such a great group of girls at SSA, and if your daughter is healthy and athletic enough to play a varsity sport, than you are blessed too.
Have a great day!
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Post by legna on Dec 16, 2014 16:12:42 GMT -6
Legna, you have a lot of time on your hands. thanks for the graph.
Not really. Just know a couple of useful Excel commands.
However, the point I was trying to make with the graph is I don't think it is that big of a deal. There were over 1440 games last year. We are talking about 3% of the games where more than 10 was scored. Also, I do think coaches are sensitive to this issue. Since Mortner is participating, I will use SSA as an example. Last year, there were at least 8 other times that you can tell from the score that they did hold back. And the few games that did go over 10, they were probably holding back also, but Goals Happen.
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Post by thedudeabides on Dec 16, 2014 16:27:31 GMT -6
Well, I think this subject has been exhausted.
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Post by kevin on Dec 16, 2014 16:44:44 GMT -6
I could probably cut and paste my thoughts from last year. Or the year before.
I really don't mind what happens as long as a team pulls its starters quickly (or doesn't even play them in the first place). The backups or JV kids want to play hard and try their best. In the few years I've been teaching and coaching, I've only once been on the losing end of one match where I thought this principle was grossly violated.
Beyond that, there are a host of things which can be done. Look at Ben Franklin--clearly one of the two best teams in the state and they haven't put up more than 6 goals on anyone. I can't get to last year's data from my phone, but I'm sure you'd see similar results from previous years.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Dec 16, 2014 18:40:07 GMT -6
I could probably cut and paste my thoughts from last year. Or the year before. I really don't mind what happens as long as a team pulls its starters quickly (or doesn't even play them in the first place). The backups or JV kids want to play hard and try their best. In the few years I've been teaching and coaching, I've only once been on the losing end of one match where I thought this principle was grossly violated. Beyond that, there are a host of things which can be done. Look at Ben Franklin--clearly one of the two best teams in the state and they haven't put up more than 6 goals on anyone. I can't get to last year's data from my phone, but I'm sure you'd see similar results from previous years. Ben Franklin is the team that came to my mind as well. There is a pattern to their scores. 6-0 seems to be their limit and they do it well. Just looked at last year and they never went over 9.
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Post by steveg on Dec 17, 2014 9:23:02 GMT -6
Once two key players missed the bus, and we were overmatched anyway, and I watched the opposition score 13 goals in the 1st half. The 2nd half they passed the ball for 40 minutes, scored once actually on a PK. Not sure which half was more humiliating.
I too look at scores and saw one school last year score 50 goals in total over three matches. I don't believe that is too sporting. I don't know the circumstances. Probably can figure it out.
A slaughter rule might be helpful, and it would indeed force a team to utilize some of the non-scoring strategies mentioned above. If they don't the match ends at the agreed on slaughter rule.
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Post by cuttysark on Dec 17, 2014 10:07:04 GMT -6
Goal diff doesn't come into play in our District. If teams end in a tie they are co champs.
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Post by happyjack on Dec 17, 2014 11:19:41 GMT -6
I recall a match several years back where a coach decided he needed to punish his varsity team, so he made them sit the bench the entire match and played JV only against a strong varsity squad (and the JV played a full game right before). The other coach was notified prior to the match, as were officials. Other opposing coach was unhappy as he would not have played if he had known this sooner. Game finished 23-0, he refused to play his JV, refused to play down, refused to stop match early. His point was if you want to send a message, I'll help do it. Only time the ball crossed midfield was the kickoff.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Dec 17, 2014 13:13:16 GMT -6
Sounds like the JV got punished more than the varsity by both coaches.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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Post by want2play on Dec 19, 2014 11:31:47 GMT -6
Last year I witness a potential blowout game. The coach continued to remove players and sub less experienced players in the game. The game ended 11 v 8, but it was very competitive for both teams. The final score was 10-1. The losing team was absolutley thrilled when they scored their lonesome 1 goal! I thought that both teams got a workout in and good sportsmanship was shown throughout.
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Post by sokerfan on Dec 19, 2014 15:33:53 GMT -6
This subject comes up every year when district play starts up. In most districts there are competitive games every outing. But in the districts where you have a TOP 10 team playing against a subpar team, you have someone talk about running up the score. As Coach Ortner said earlier, you score on just crosses and headers and still people complain. The difference between the TOP 10 teams in the state and every other team is goals and expectations.
The goals and expectations majority of the teams out there is to "have fun" and maybe win a game or two.
The goals and expectations of the TOP 10 teams are to Win District and contend for a State Championship. And while winning they are having fun.
I have been involved with New Iberia High School the first year they had a team and there was no complaining by anyone when Lafayette High came to town and handed us our ***. It was a learning process and 4 years later when Lafayette High came calling the scores were a little more respectable but the outcome was still the same. The Lafayette High Coaches at the time, even though they knew it would be a win for them, had major respect for the girls of NISH because they just played soccer to the best of their ability and let the chips fall where they may.
Now being a part of the Lafayette High family, I am on the other side of the lopsided games. It is hard to keep your team in condition when the don't have the really competitive games week end and week out. That is why the larger districts like the SSA, Mandy district as well as the Lafayette, Acadiana districts voted to play each team only once and are now allowed to play teams of their caliber for their non-district games.
Unfortunately you cannot avoid the mismatched games, so admire the skill and teamwork of the players on the field and hope that one day these two teams will be playing for the State Championship.
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Post by chelsea007 on Dec 23, 2014 22:39:03 GMT -6
If scoring headers on crosses is too easy restrict it to full volleys. All of these scorelines will go down with these restrictions implemented imo, especially the full volley.
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