6 things I don't like about HS soccer

[elmaestro]

1-  Can the student body of the home team sit on the bleachers behind the players benches

2- are vuvuzela allowed in high school soccer matches

3- lets say I fell dribbling a ball towards goal from a sitting position on the ground  I don't think I can pick both of my studs to try to flat push the ball with my stud up in the air miss the ball because the ball been gone and hit the player from the other team with both my stud is that a considered dangerous play and I think at least a yellow if not a straight red card should have been awarded or am I just crazy

4- is chickenwinging a player or just straight elbowing or waiting for a player with elbows up with intent to hit a player considered a carded foul or did my Spaniard coach teach me wrong

5- high ball coming  I'm behind the other teams player I put my hands on his shoulder to use the player as a trampoline l launch my self hit the ball fall on the other teams player head and crush him to the ground foul with or without card

6- lets say in the keeper I'm going to catch a high shot after I have caught the ball a player from the other team has hit me 3 time trying in 3 different instances trying to dislodged the ball what should have happen

 

not a cry baby 3 time war veteran don't mind loosing to a good team that the beauty of soccer I just thought we are trying to teach these young men how to excel in a game that played right can and is beautiful or should we start training our boys to play  the new Louisiana game BULLYBALL because if is good for the GOOSE is good for the Gander.  I don't think so but then again we are in the state of the loose bananas

and what are we teaching these referees to swallow the whistle or is it going to take  some ones child to get hurt real bad from UGLY PLAY so things can change

SOMEBODY please stand up for our Louisiana's soccer boys all of them and the GAME

lets make the game beautiful

El Maestro

PS if there's are any grammar errors sorry soy espanol

[aderitter]

I try by

#1 Supporting the Referee's. Not letting my team even talk to them to show displeasure so that they are comfortable to call the game correctly.

#2. Teach my team to play clean and enforce this via playing time.

I could rant, but I've been talking about these issues forever on Russell's Marina Grill's Monday Night Futbol for four years now. I see that the coaches are the real problem for, as you call it, bullyball is being taught. I'm as physical as the next coach... it is a contact sport. The gamesmanship issues hurt us especially if we are trying to promote soccer as a beautiful game full of integrity. God Bless You.

[time2retire]

It sounds like you have a lot of issues with the way the game was called.

If you think you can do better, I challenge you to be a referee and give the players the game they deserve. I felt that way and became a referee myself...coming up on 19 years of doing this. You put forth a couple of situations and asked what the result should be. Imagine if you were the referee...you'd be able to call a perfect game while protecting all of the players

Teaching your kid to excel starts at home, but I won't touch that one.

[soccerdad23]

Jan 29, 2015 10:17:03 GMT -6 time2retire said:

It sounds like you have a lot of issues with the way the game was called.

If you think you can do better, I challenge you to be a referee and give the players the game they deserve. I felt that way and became a referee myself.coming up on 19 years of doing this. You put forth a couple of situations and asked what the result should be. Imagine if you were the referee.you'd be able to call a perfect game while protecting all of the players

Teaching your kid to excel starts at home, but I won't touch that one.

Ha! that was pretty tight the way you didn't answer any of elmaestro's  concerns about the calls or lack thereof and completely turned the tables on him by telling him he should become a referee and call games himself.

I personally have no clue what he's talking about but they seemed to be valid concerns.

I understand as a ref you want to relay their challenges to the spectators and critics on this forum, but still...can you really defend all of them.

are there not bad ref's?....and if you concede there are bad refs does that mean I or any critic should become a ref to make the game better?

I know good and well I couldn't do it...and I respect what they do...but I have seem some questionable decisions made...

but still that was a great response...you should go into politics :-)

[time2retire]

Lol.

Are there good/bad refs who make good/bad calls on good/bad days? Mix and match any of those options and you can apply that to any game being played. I'm not one to defend others decisions, especially with such little information being given...if it's one I make, I have no issue opening up to it...explaining my thought process along the way or owning up and saying, you know, I really screwed the pooch there. It happens. And if someone doesn't have the understanding that simple and major errors can be made by them (as a ref), they won't be receptive to feedback, and they won't last long doing this. Or they won't get terribly far doing it.

Although 99.99% of spectators/coaches are not qualified to assess a referee performance, that doesn't mean they don't sometimes make legitimate points and have legitimate concerns. It irks me for some fellow referees to say "just a coach" and brush them off without considering "why" and "what" compelled him to say something. Case in point - I had a game the other night when a play happened, I determined a foul/advantage/card at the next stoppage. Team loses the ball shortly after, play continued. Coach voices his displeasure. After the game we texted and I said he had a valid point, and he did. The next time I have this decision I'll be a little more aware of what that team wanted. But to simply brush him aside and not learn from the situation and understand why he felt that way isn't the way things should be done.

And yes, I do openly invite/challenge people who can do better to step up. It's what compelled me to join. I'd like to think I'm making a pretty positive impactwith the guys I work with.

[Steven Gerrard]

A few years ago, I was early for my daughter's high school game at a tournament so I sat in the stands and watched two other teams. Over the course of about 10 minutes, the center ref made about 4 different calls/non-calls that were greatly disputed by the fans of one team. "Oh, that is terrible" and "this guy is a horrible ref" were heard. And, it just got worse. Me? Sitting as an unbiased observer, I agreed with every call/non-call made by the center. But, you couldn't tell that to the un-objective parents who were watching their team.

I have also seen parents come on this board and post descriptions of plays that had no semblance in reality to what I also saw on the field as an AR.

Are their bad refs? Oh, yes. Trust me, there are. Are there good refs who make the wrong call? Oh, of course. But, I can't take the word of a parent as to what should have been called or not called. That is why refs have a hard time coming on this board and agreeing that the calls in a particular game should have been different.

And, no offense to elmaestro. He seems like a nice fellow. But, I just can't trust a team parent (even me, when I am one).

[soccerdad23]

I absolutely agree with you both...I just thought it hilarious the way el maestro poured out his heart and soul with his concerns and was pretty much told to become a referee!! I had to pull over I was laughing so hard! :-)

[laffysoccermom]

Hang around here enough and you will get several be a ref comments.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards

[rlb2024]

I will take a shot at elmaestro's first two questions . . .

1)  As far as I know there is no prohibition in the LHSAA rules against fans (including students) being on the same side of the field as the player benches.  I have never seen that occur, and I know the tradition is that the fans are on one side of the pitch and the players on the other, but if there is something in the LHSAA handbook that specifically covers this I'm not aware of it.  (If it is in there, please let me know -- I'm just a parent and not totally up on the entire handbook.)

2) Again, I could not find a prohibition against artificial noisemakers in the stands.  I have seen fans with miniature bells at games, and a match I attended earlier this week had part of the student band drum section in the home stands (fortunately I was not near it).  That would lead me to believe that vuvuzelas are OK.  If they are to be used, though, good sportsmanship should prevail.

The other questions I will leave to the referees.

[Saver19o]

I believe noise-makers are only prohibited for indoor sports.

[rlb2024]

Jan 29, 2015 12:25:15 GMT -6 Saver19o said:

I believe noise-makers are only prohibited for indoor sports.

Sounds reasonable.  Thanks, Coach.

[Antimatter]

Officiating a soccer match is the hardest such job in sports. One center and two AR's(OR dual centers in some high school games) patrol an area which is the largest in team sports and has 22 players. The game is also called in a way that is nuanced with a lot that is not black and white as to when to blow the whistle. The NFL as a comparison has 7 officials per game with the backup of instant replay at the league office. They cover a smaller field and the largest percentage of actions within any play stays in a narrow portion of the field. There are timeouts and quarter breaks where the officials can relax. These officials make over $100,000 for a season of 20 games. Yet they still miss calls. TO expect soccer officials to get every call right is just not realistic.

That being said, I have noticed more games in the New Orleans area the last few years that officials have allowed the contact to get out of control. Not a large percentage of games but a larger percentage. I do not think this is to favor one team or another but more from a lack of will to control the game. I wish I knew the reason but I do not. I do not expect the officials to be perfect. I do expect them to protect the players on the pitch and not just go through the motions to get their game payment.

[laffysoccermom]

What myarsenal said.... difference between complaining about ref calling wrong team for throw-in or a questionable offside call and complaining about ref losing control of game.

Luckily we have only played in one of those games.

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[smee]

I would hope that number of officials "just going through the motions" would be minimal, but I cannot speak for all officials. I do know that there were over 200 games in one week in the NOLA area, so, unfortunately, you are not going to be seeing FIFA ranked, or even MLS, National or even State ranked officials on all the games. Some schools do not have floodlights, so only people who can get away "early" from work can cover those games. Some of us are no longer capable of two games a day six days a week: we get repetitive strain injuries too.

Without seeing the individual plays at the start of the post, it is not really possible to answer except in generalizations. I do empathise with all the parents who watch the games from the bleachers and see kids getting hurt. I have taken my son to hospital after games more times than I can recall, but none of those occasions was the result of "bad calls" from refs: rather it was the nature of the sport, and his own tenacity.

I can answer questions 1& 2. There is no requirement for which side the bleachers and benches have to be, but most schools have them on opposite sides. Musical instruments are allowed, but sportsmanship should always be encouraged. IMHO, bands should be compulsory at all sporting events if they are going to be at football games: why pick and choose the sports?

[time2retire]

Jan 29, 2015 12:17:56 GMT -6 laffysoccermom said:

Hang around here enough and you will get several be a ref comments.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards

If no one challenged and no one answered, the problem would never be resolved. DUCY?

[raiderfan]

Jan 29, 2015 1:02:39 GMT -6 elmaestro said:

3- lets say I fell dribbling a ball towards goal from a sitting position on the ground I don't think I can pick both of my studs to try to flat push the ball with my stud up in the air miss the ball because the ball been gone and hit the player from the other team with both my stud is that a considered dangerous play and I think at least a yellow if not a straight red card should have been awarded or am I just crazy

I'll give this one a try, and see if any of the more knowledgeable folks here correct me. My understanding of rules is that a player is not supposed to attempt to continue to play the ball, if he is on the ground. I know this was true in the league play my son used to do, but not 100% sure if it's the same under HS rules. So, attempting to continue playing the ball, when you're down on the ground, would be a foul and free kick to the other team. Whether or not to book a player with a card is somewhat a judgment call by the ref, but I would not think this would be a yellow card, unless the play was especially reckless.

[barnacle13]

Pmalinich posted a nice video showing that playing the ball while on the ground is allowed and can result in positive outcomes. Just because a player plays the ball while on the ground does not constitute a foul or infraction.

[p_malinich]

Jan 29, 2015 13:46:20 GMT -6 raiderfan said:

Jan 29, 2015 1:02:39 GMT -6 elmaestro said:

3- lets say I fell dribbling a ball towards goal from a sitting position on the ground I don't think I can pick both of my studs to try to flat push the ball with my stud up in the air miss the ball because the ball been gone and hit the player from the other team with both my stud is that a considered dangerous play and I think at least a yellow if not a straight red card should have been awarded or am I just crazy

I'll give this one a try, and see if any of the more knowledgeable folks here correct me. My understanding of rules is that a player is not supposed to attempt to continue to play the ball, if he is on the ground. I know this was true in the league play my son used to do, but not 100% sure if it's the same under HS rules. So, attempting to continue playing the ball, when you're down on the ground, would be a foul and free kick to the other team. Whether or not to book a player with a card is somewhat a judgment call by the ref, but I would not think this would be a yellow card, unless the play was especially reckless.

Here's a recent thread on "Dangerous Play" in the Referee section.  Playing the ball on the ground in and of itself is not considered a dangerous play (and I gave a video example there).  Missing the ball and studding a player probably would be.  Anyway, here's link to the discussion...

Dangerous play

[p_malinich]

Jan 29, 2015 11:32:47 GMT -6 Steven Gerrard said:

A few years ago, I was early for my daughter's high school game at a tournament so I sat in the stands and watched two other teams. Over the course of about 10 minutes, the center ref made about 4 different calls/non-calls that were greatly disputed by the fans of one team. "Oh, that is terrible" and "this guy is a horrible ref" were heard. And, it just got worse. Me? Sitting as an unbiased observer, I agreed with every call/non-call made by the center. But, you couldn't tell that to the un-objective parents who were watching their team.

I have also seen parents come on this board and post descriptions of plays that had no semblance in reality to what I also saw on the field as an AR.

Are their bad refs? Oh, yes. Trust me, there are. Are there good refs who make the wrong call? Oh, of course. But, I can't take the word of a parent as to what should have been called or not called. That is why refs have a hard time coming on this board and agreeing that the calls in a particular game should have been different.

And, no offense to elmaestro. He seems like a nice fellow. But, I just can't trust a team parent (even me, when I am one).

Totally agree, Steven.  One solution is to tell people to go get their license and try it.  Another (as you suggest) is to go be a neutral at many (preferably intense games).  Sit squarely in the middle of both sets of fans and listen to the complaints (sometimes from both sides about the same call).  It helped scale my comments from the sideline down some (although not all).

[methuselah]

It's been my experience as a parent that if you chat with someone close to the action - i.e.: on the field or on the side line. Say a coach, assistant coach or your son, and you discuss it in a way that it does not look like you have a pre-determined answer you want (ie: just ask something like "what happened with that play with X right before half time right outside the box"), the majority of times you will learn that you did not see what you think you saw and that the ref, who is a lot closer to the action, was right.

There are exceptions of course. The refs make mistakes from time to time just like everyone And I would bet that a ref who is very familiar with a coach or team and sees them a lot respects them sometimes allow a bit of unconscious bias slip in. But by and large I think they get it right a lot more often than the parents in the stands do.

I'm certainly no angel in the stands but you learn to trust in the coaches and captains to handle things on the field. They know a lot more than you and I how to interact with different refs, when to keep silent, when and how to voice concerns, etc.

Back when I coached little league baseball one of the things I put in my handout to parents at the beginning of the year was something like: "the players' job is to play, the coach's job is to coach, the umpire's job is to umpire and the fans' job is to cheer".