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Post by Antimatter on Jan 31, 2015 8:55:23 GMT -6
The more I think about it the more it bothers me as I cannot think of another timed sport where it exists at the high school level. The same LHSAA would not ever dream of putting such on American football under any circumstance even though there are routs weekly in that sport. I think having a soccer game called at the half would be more embarassing to me that getting blown out. I asked my child and a few others and they agreed.
I do believe this has similar origins to the crazy 9 division select/non select split in football in that it is the actions of a handful of teams or coaches was the impetus for the idea of a mercy rule. Look at the top 5 in the D1 poll and how many games where these teams won by more than 8.
Div I
1. SSA 0
2. MCA 2 (9-0 and 10-0)
3. Dominican 0
4. Mandeville 7(12-0,14-0,11-0,11-0,15-0,15-0,10-1)
5. Fontainebleu 1(11-0)
When you look at DII, Franklin could have scored 20 on at least a third of the teams they played but only went over 8 twice.
I guess this also ticks me off because it is controllable by the coaches. Any coach who is worth a warm cup of spit can keep a game under 8-0 and still challenge his team and get quality time to his younger players. If a coach RUTS, folks outside of their district should refuse to schedule them. If they cannot get 15 games perhaps it might persuade a coach to put sportsmanship above stats.
Also with 4 divisions and shifted districts there will be a little less likelihood of blowouts.
This is also a punishment to the team getting beat because NOTHING is more important to developing than time on the field in a real game. A good coach, even when getting blown out, can create teachable moments for his team.
No, this was a bad idea.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Jan 31, 2015 9:31:34 GMT -6
I think the mercy rule was targeting only a handful of teams and coaches, the sports lack of being able to police itself caused the need for the principals to step in..
don't kid yourself into thinking these blowout scores were going unnoticed..
usually when a team or coach were called out on the ridiculous scores a lot of times they were defended on this very board..instead of trying to encourage them to keep the scores down.
since we are using football as an example of a sport that has blowouts then if you equate a goal in soccer to a touchdown in football, then a 15-0 soccer game would be equal to a 105-0 football score.Ive never seen that in a football game that I can remember.
most dumb rules are born of dumb actions.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 31, 2015 9:36:45 GMT -6
There are mercy rules in baseball and softball so you cannot just compare it to American football. Why is it a bad rule when as you said any coach worth their spit can keep a game around 8-0? It will eliminate the 28-0 and 15-0 games we have seen in the past. While those are the exceptions they have happened so those are the only games that will be effected.
I am not sure about this but would think coaches could agree to play on and let JV play but the game goes down as an 8-0 win or whatever regardless of how the rest of the game went.
For example, if Team A goes up 8-0 before halftime the game is called at the start of the second half. Now Team A can play whomever especially a backup keeper for example without worrying about goals being scored on them. Why would that matter? Possibly for District tie breakers. Now they could possibly play a more competitive second half and goals do not matter. It could be even better for the overmatched team as the get a second half that might be more to their speed and ability and they can get something out of it. They might even be able to score which could turn what would have been originally a disheartening game into a game where they could leave it actually feeling a little bit better about themselves and maybe, just maybe they got a little bit better as well.
just my two cents, which is not worth anything.
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Post by Antimatter on Jan 31, 2015 9:38:28 GMT -6
If other coaches had backbones and wanted to protect the integrity of the sport they would refuse to schedule the most egregious offenders. In that way the state could have avoided a rule that takes away time on the field.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 31, 2015 9:40:12 GMT -6
If other coaches had backbones and wanted to protect the integrity of the sport they would refuse to schedule the most egregious offenders. In that way the state could have avoided a rule that takes away time on the field. Some of the worst scores were district games |
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Post by laffysoccermom on Jan 31, 2015 10:03:42 GMT -6
I understand it can be disheartening to lose by that much but it happened both ways to my daughter as early as U11. They learned to pick themselves up and go back on the pitch and try again. We got beat badly first and they also learned what kind of winners they wanted to be. Other team was less than gracious.
Spring season we were on winning side. No- we didn't get any development out of that game but a few parents came up to some of us and commented how nice our girls were to theirs.
Long story short- if 10 year old girls can handle it- I think high school kids could too. If they can't, shame on parents and coaches.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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Post by hawksfan on Jan 31, 2015 10:06:54 GMT -6
If other coaches had backbones and wanted to protect the integrity of the sport they would refuse to schedule the most egregious offenders. In that way the state could have avoided a rule that takes away time on the field. Some of the worst scores were district games Yet other very strong teams in the very same districts (plural intended) did not run the scores up . . . kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? On the boys forum someone made the observation that all the scoring records were safe . . . but if it was running up the score on very weak or startup teams that generated those (ahem) records, how much are those records really worth, anyway? |
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Post by Antimatter on Jan 31, 2015 10:19:13 GMT -6
There are mercy rules in baseball and softball so you cannot just compare it to American football. Why is it a bad rule when as you said any coach worth their spit can keep a game around 8-0? It will eliminate the 28-0 and 15-0 games we have seen in the past. While those are the exceptions they have happened so those are the only games that will be effected. I am not sure about this but would think coaches could agree to play on and let JV play but the game goes down as an 8-0 win or whatever regardless of how the rest of the game went. For example, if Team A goes up 8-0 before halftime the game is called at the start of the second half. Now Team A can play whomever especially a backup keeper for example without worrying about goals being scored on them. Why would that matter? Possibly for District tie breakers. Now they could possibly play a more competitive second half and goals do not matter. It could be even better for the overmatched team as the get a second half that might be more to their speed and ability and they can get something out of it. They might even be able to score which could turn what would have been originally a disheartening game into a game where they could leave it actually feeling a little bit better about themselves and maybe, just maybe they got a little bit better as well. just my two cents, which is not worth anything. There are such rules in baseball and softball. The difference is they are traditional to those sports. |
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Post by Antimatter on Jan 31, 2015 10:21:10 GMT -6
Laffysoccermom, you added an important point.
In club, my kids have lost 14-0 where the other side was good sports and it was not as bad as losing 6-0 when the other team is arrogant.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Jan 31, 2015 10:21:30 GMT -6
And softball and baseball are not timed. That's a big difference.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 31, 2015 10:40:48 GMT -6
There are mercy rules in baseball and softball so you cannot just compare it to American football. Why is it a bad rule when as you said any coach worth their spit can keep a game around 8-0? It will eliminate the 28-0 and 15-0 games we have seen in the past. While those are the exceptions they have happened so those are the only games that will be effected. I am not sure about this but would think coaches could agree to play on and let JV play but the game goes down as an 8-0 win or whatever regardless of how the rest of the game went. For example, if Team A goes up 8-0 before halftime the game is called at the start of the second half. Now Team A can play whomever especially a backup keeper for example without worrying about goals being scored on them. Why would that matter? Possibly for District tie breakers. Now they could possibly play a more competitive second half and goals do not matter. It could be even better for the overmatched team as the get a second half that might be more to their speed and ability and they can get something out of it. They might even be able to score which could turn what would have been originally a disheartening game into a game where they could leave it actually feeling a little bit better about themselves and maybe, just maybe they got a little bit better as well. just my two cents, which is not worth anything. There are such rules in baseball and softball. The difference is they are traditional to those sports. Not sure what you mean by traditional since it is not at all levels. It is in high school and it is in tournaments at all levels typically to keep them on time. Laffy says that those sports are not timed but to me a mercy rule is a mercy rule. I mentioned in another thread there is what I believe is an unwritten mercy rule in football that our team used quite a bit in 2013. In the the second half they played with a running clock to end the game sooner. |
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Post by Antimatter on Jan 31, 2015 11:30:28 GMT -6
uhscubs, a lot of states have the running clock rule for blowouts in football and basketball. It still allows you to complete the game. I am all for letting the clock run in soccer for blowouts...;-}
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Post by cajunfit on Jan 31, 2015 11:57:48 GMT -6
I am saying this as person that absolutely HATES when coaches run up the score (e.g. >10). But...I was typing up some lengthy, rambling, venting post about how much this can hurt if games get cut at half-time (starters play less, parents drive and pay to get in, relatives) But I deleted most of that when I just thought: "The coaches are just going to visit before/during games and do what they can to NOT hit that mercy rule". As a former player and coach, and now a parent that enjoys watching his daughter play every game, I will be pretty upset if coaches hit the mercy rule in the first half and we all walk out of the stadium at half-time. Nobody is going to want that. Yes, something needs to be done to stop the horrendous lop-sided scores, but my personal opinion is that it starts and stops with the coach. You can tell when coaches have pulled back on the reigns or not. I am impressed with how our coaches have handled multiple lopsided district matches that ALL could have ended at half-time under this mercy rule if we kept our starters in and actually pulled back our JV players as well. This is not bragging...just giving examples of how it can be done with sportsmanship. I am now intrigued to see how many games actually get to the mercy rule next year. I suspect it will be quite low, or the 8-0 will occur in the 2nd half, or the coaches will feel the wrath (unless its 25 degrees and raining!  ) |
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Post by Scott Crawford on Jan 31, 2015 12:11:49 GMT -6
Mercy rule is a good rule. Sadly there are still coaches who think 15 goal wins are acceptable.
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Post by Antimatter on Jan 31, 2015 12:35:36 GMT -6
The same coaches that RUTS will probably make it just as bad in a game where they go up 7-0 early. If you are willing to RUTS, you are also capable of doing other things to dishearten the other team.
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Post by legna on Jan 31, 2015 12:46:43 GMT -6
I guess this also ticks me off because it is controllable by the coaches. Any coach who is worth a warm cup of spit can keep a game under 8-0 and still challenge his team and get quality time to his younger players. If a coach RUTS, folks outside of their district should refuse to schedule them. If they cannot get 15 games perhaps it might persuade a coach to put sportsmanship above stats. Sounds a little harsh on the coaches. From my observations, it is not ALWAYS just the winning team to blame. I have seen several blowouts this year by multiple teams. More often than not, aside from the keeper, the losing team completely stops trying. In fact last week, I went to a game that everyone knew would be a blowout. The losing team, knowing they were going to get beat, "saved" their varsity players for the opponent they could beat, and played a lot of their JV team. |
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Post by kevin on Jan 31, 2015 16:25:51 GMT -6
I'll be interested to see which coaches go for the 8-goal win and which don't.
My hope is that the mercy rule forces teams to start easing off the gas at 4-0 or 5-0. They know if they want to get the work in, they have to keep the score down.
I'm a little concerned that if it becomes standard practice to finish the remaining time as a JV game or exhibition or whatever, the better teams will have all the more reason to go for the 8-goal win at the half.
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Post by LAsoccercoach on Jan 31, 2015 18:08:14 GMT -6
I think your missing the point of the rule. If you think or know your going to be 8 goals better than a team then you shouldn't schedule them. If your a team who knows you are going to get beat by 8 goals then don't schedule that team. Typically these games happen in district play and with the new classification hopefully more schools move to a smaller district and vote to play once per season and coaches go out and schedule appropriate competition so they can get a good game and not just a easy win. I would much rather get to 8 goals then be able to practice against my own team in the second half in those matches or go home because we don't get anything out of a game where we can rout an opponent.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 31, 2015 21:04:53 GMT -6
uhscubs, a lot of states have the running clock rule for blowouts in football and basketball. It still allows you to complete the game. I am all for letting the clock run in soccer for blowouts.;-} Not sure the running clock in football is a rule but if so then that is their mercy rule. I would think you can still finish a game even with the 8 goal mercy rule. Might be wrong about that thought. |
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Rob_
Bench Warmer
Posts: 20
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Post by Rob_ on Feb 1, 2015 9:33:01 GMT -6
It seems that most are assuming games can continue after the mercy rule has been applied. I would think that should be determined beforehand, yes? And be applied the same way across the board, not just left to official's discretion or a coaches agreement. In baseball/softball, once the mercy rule has been applied, the game is over. Period. Doesn't matter what the coaches want to do, or if they want to play their JV afterwards, etc. Whatever the mercy rule is, it should be applied consistently. Just an opinion.
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