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Post by Scott Crawford on Feb 28, 2015 14:29:10 GMT -6
From February 16, 1985 to December 17, 1990, the Northshore girls soccer team went 74-0-1, including winning 5 straight state championships. some are claiming that Ben Franklin is currently on a 63 game unbeaten streak that began in 2012, now at 61-0-2, including 3 state state championships. however since posting this it has come to my attention the streak was snapped by a Mississippi team 0-5 ] To read more about Northshore's historic run, check out our article in the Archives Section
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Post by counterattack on Mar 1, 2015 7:58:53 GMT -6
A couple of Franklin's best players graduate, true, but not all of them. Multiple "core" players return next year, exceptional players, and their soccer program grows each year in numbers. I'm not sure if they will score quite as many goals but they should still have the pieces to be very formidable.
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Post by Scott Crawford on Mar 2, 2015 19:50:22 GMT -6
So apparently Ben Franklin lost 5-0 to a team from Mississippi last year. With that in mind, should Franklin say they have a 63 game unbeaten streak?
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Post by laffysoccermom on Mar 2, 2015 21:16:41 GMT -6
Maybe 63 game unbeaten in Louisiana streak...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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Post by time2retire on Mar 3, 2015 13:59:17 GMT -6
Those games count for Jesuit or St Pauls?
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 3, 2015 14:37:50 GMT -6
Question. How impressive is Northshores 75 game unbeaten streak? It appears that the sport was in its infancy during that period. Not taking anything away from Northshore and it was definitely an impressive feat. but lets put it in perspective.
Looking at their run and I see a couple seasons where they finished 12-0 and that's including the playoffs(unless I'm reading it wrong) How many teams were in the league? What was the competition like?
How would that same Northshore team (In its prime of course) fair against the Mandevilles, SSA's, and Mt Carmels of today? would they be as dominant? would they be undefeated? would they have won multiple state titles in todays landscape of girls soccer?
Hopefully those are fair questions and doesn't come off as trying to downplay their accomplishments!
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Post by Scott Crawford on Mar 3, 2015 18:16:28 GMT -6
Those games do count for Jesuit and St Paul's.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 3, 2015 18:34:25 GMT -6
according to nutmeg out of state games do not count as far as record reporting to the LHSAA goes. if I knew how to bring the post over here I would, but if you go to his recent posts on page 7 you'll see it
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Post by Timbertwin on Mar 3, 2015 18:44:06 GMT -6
For playoff reporting purposes, out of state results do not count as there is no way to accurately record them for power ratings purposes. Since there's no LHSAA record of an out-of-state team's wins-losses-ties, nor any way to compel a school from another state to report them to LHSAA, there's no option but to totally discard them. That is simply for power ratings and playoff reportings, though, as Jesuit's record this year that they provided always included their losses in Mississippi and St. Paul's included their wins in Mississippi and Florida.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 3, 2015 18:51:19 GMT -6
So does that mean BF is NOT on a 63 game unbeaten streak?
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 3, 2015 18:51:53 GMT -6
And if not what would be the accurate win streak count?
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Post by counterattack on Mar 4, 2015 10:07:15 GMT -6
First of all, this honestly isn't meant to make excuses or argue.
However, to continue with the interesting discussion, I just wanted to mention something that no one else has pointed out so far. Someone please correct me if necessary.
As I recall, Ben Franklin lost that game to the Mississippi school at a Gulfport tournament in which its best players didn't play because they had just returned from the Disney Showcase (club) either the same day or the night before. If I'm not mistaken, BF wasn't even fully treating it as a competitive event - the coaches knew those players would need to rest after the intense games in Orlando, so they saw this tournament as an opportunity to play games where other girls could make an impression and improve with valuable game time, in a situation where the results didn't really matter. I want to say one game was against Sacred Heart and the "starters" may have played, especially with the score counting in Louisiana, but definitely not in the loss to the Miss. team because the girls who went to Disney really needed to rest.
Again, feel free to correct me if someone remembers things differently. Like I said, no excuses, a game is a game, if it counts it counts! Just worth mentioning the circumstances, if that game is the reason the 63 streak is under fire. I doubt the BF players and coaches ever lost much sleep over that game.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 4, 2015 10:24:37 GMT -6
you would absolutely be correct counterattack. and I have the video to prove it :-) but like you said...who cares...No one in LA has beaten them! at ANY level!
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Post by stuckin on Mar 4, 2015 10:29:32 GMT -6
The fact that people are trying to discount the out of state games is ridiculous in my opinion. Regardless of where it was played, whether players were missing, or any other excuses thrown out there, the game was still played. You cannot say just because it was out of state that it doesn't affect the win streak. IT ABSOLUTELY DOES! A game was still played, and they still lost. End of streak. Period. If you look at national rankings and national records, they count ALL games, regardless of where they were or who they were against.
Now, if you want to say they have a 63 game unbeaten streak in Louisiana then that is fine. Just don't try to ignore a loss in that streak. In my opinion the streak should've ended as soon as that loss happened.
Think of it this way, I guarantee that if Ben Franklin won that game in Mississippi then they would count it in their win streak, correct? So if they would count the win, you can discount the loss.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Mar 4, 2015 11:14:14 GMT -6
First of all, this honestly isn't meant to make excuses or argue. However, to continue with the interesting discussion, I just wanted to mention something that no one else has pointed out so far. Someone please correct me if necessary. As I recall, Ben Franklin lost that game to the Mississippi school at a Gulfport tournament in which its best players didn't play because they had just returned from the Disney Showcase (club) either the same day or the night before. If I'm not mistaken, BF wasn't even fully treating it as a competitive event - the coaches knew those players would need to rest after the intense games in Orlando, so they saw this tournament as an opportunity to play games where other girls could make an impression and improve with valuable game time, in a situation where the results didn't really matter. I want to say one game was against Sacred Heart and the "starters" may have played, especially with the score counting in Louisiana, but definitely not in the loss to the Miss. team because the girls who went to Disney really needed to rest. Again, feel free to correct me if someone remembers things differently. Like I said, no excuses, a game is a game, if it counts it counts! Just worth mentioning the circumstances, if that game is the reason the 63 streak is under fire. I doubt the BF players and coaches ever lost much sleep over that game. I think someone posts later that the LA streak is still in tact. It is. But I tend to agree that this game would count. I appreciated your heart as you shared & felt like I could share this story here. In my pre-missions life, I was managing a work force where there was a perfect attendance bonus awarded (not big, but awarded quarterly nonetheless). There was an electrical contractor doing some work at the plant. He gets seriously shocked & needs to go to hospital. His brother-in-law, an employee of ours, chooses to go to the hospital with him (and left work early). When the bonuses were awarded, the brother-in-law didn't get one - he didn't have perfect attendance. I was not in charge of the decision, but definitely part of management. He came to me to discuss. His conclusion was, "So you're telling me that I shouldn't have gone to the hospital?" My response was, "No. You do what you need to do, but we can't pick & choose the reasons for perfect attendance. It's perfect or it's not." The reasons would be myriad if we moved the line for that very good reason. It sounds like that MS game falls into that category. Did they handle it the way they should all things considered? It sounds like they did. If they cared about a streak, they would've likely done differently. But they cared about the players and the long-term development of the program. I think those are good choices and ones which none of the ladies lost any sleep over (as you pointed out). But the streak is broken. The LA streak continues (in my opinion).
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Post by counterattack on Mar 4, 2015 11:16:08 GMT -6
The fact that people are trying to discount the out of state games is ridiculous in my opinion. Regardless of where it was played, whether players were missing, or any other excuses thrown out there, the game was still played. You cannot say just because it was out of state that it doesn't affect the win streak. IT ABSOLUTELY DOES! A game was still played, and they still lost. End of streak. Period. If you look at national rankings and national records, they count ALL games, regardless of where they were or who they were against. Now, if you want to say they have a 63 game unbeaten streak in Louisiana then that is fine. Just don't try to ignore a loss in that streak. In my opinion the streak should've ended as soon as that loss happened. Think of it this way, I guarantee that if Ben Franklin won that game in Mississippi then they would count it in their win streak, correct? So if they would count the win, you can discount the loss. I guess you must have missed the part where I emphasized multiple times that I wasn't trying to make excuses. Just HAD to create an account so that you could come on here and call people out over this? I said at the beginning and at the end of that last post, if a game still counts, it counts, no excuses, the game was played. I just thought the circumstances were worth mentioning, since people might be wondering how BF could take credit for a streak despite a 5-goal loss. If you want to say the streak is only in Louisiana, that's fine and valid, I'm not arguing. If the only game BF has lost in 3 years was a game they didn't even try to win or play their best players, because the outcome didn't matter and their best starters were returning from a showcase, that's not bad....hardly a blemish at all for those players, even if the record books don't differentiate. That's honestly the only point I was making. You're right, the game still happened and still got recorded. No one is saying it didn't. Also, you're making an assumption when you say BF would've counted it in their streak if they had won. As multiple people have pointed out, games out of state aren't even in the Louisiana records at all. Could give slightly more benefit of the doubt.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 4, 2015 11:30:14 GMT -6
Ummm that would be incorrect because the tie was also not counted(yes they also tied a Mississippi team)
we were told that those games did not count from the very beginning ....heck Sacred Heart whom we beat there also tried to say our game with them did not count because it was played out of state and there was a huge discussion concerning that!
I get people don't want to give BF their respect and I get that people want to see them lose in the worst way!!
We're use to that and success breeds animosity! If you knew the girls from BF you'd know they were the most humble girls ever considering their success......so are the parents!
Again at the end of the day, who cares? they are undefeated in the state of Louisiana.... now as far as we know those games against the Mississippi teams do not count against our unbeaten streak in Louisiana...and until we are shown and told differently we are 63-0-2 with three state titles!
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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 4, 2015 11:35:02 GMT -6
at the end of the day isn't that what we are talking about. A state record... Does Louisiana recognize out of state games or not for record keeping purposes?? If they don't then we are 63-0-2 no one has said anything about a national record!
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Post by counterattack on Mar 4, 2015 11:40:51 GMT -6
I appreciate the post, p_malinich. Thanks for sharing and I agree with what you said and the point you are making.
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Post by stuckin on Mar 4, 2015 11:42:20 GMT -6
I wasn't calling you out so don't take my post personally. I think you interpreted my post as negative or diminishing BF's accomplishments. That wasn't the case at all. I was just stating my opinion on the matter. In fact, I agree with everything you have said. Sorry for coming off the wrong way.
The fact that BF has gone 63 games unbeaten in Louisiana is outstanding. I hope they continue that streak through next year too. As a former player I know how hard it is to get through ONE game without losing, let alone THREE years. Those players will always remember that streak, no matter what. And as you said, I'm sure none of the players care about that loss because if they played again with their starters I guarantee the streak would still be going. They obviously don't care about the streak since they decided to rest their players (which was the right decision in my opinion).
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