oranje
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Posts: 207
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Post by oranje on Mar 2, 2015 15:45:29 GMT -6
Louisiana is putting a better product on the field over the last few years. When I first starting working with club teams, no boys or girls teams were breaking brackets at Regional Championships regularly..however, I think the La representative on the boys side at u17B at u18 have broken brackets the last few years. On the girls side you had one team break bracket three straight years, win Region 3 once, and get within 1 goal of playing for the national championship. On the field product is improving. High Schools are reaping the benefits of these elite club players. Need to add the LA 98B/u15 representative team to that conversation also. First seed advancing to quartersfinals in OK after beating Chelsea Solar/TX-N, OK and NC. Eventually losing to GA. Small clubs can beat big clubs with the right instruction, commitment and attitude.
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Post by playwide on Mar 2, 2015 16:26:19 GMT -6
I think Academy has more of an impact on the Louisiana Players making the ODP Regional Team, than it has at USYS Regional Championships.
As you say, the NTX< STX< NC<FL teams are still good and you have to go through them to win.
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oranje
All-District
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Post by oranje on Mar 2, 2015 16:48:31 GMT -6
I think Academy has more of an impact on the Louisiana Players making the ODP Regional Team, than it has at USYS Regional Championships. As you say, the NTX< STX< NC<FL teams are still good and you have to go through them to win. ODP regional pool is certainly a higher benchmark. However, USYSA is the best year-round proving ground in my opinion.
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Post by quepasa on Mar 2, 2015 18:04:56 GMT -6
Last year's SPS team was as good as this years team. Next year's team should get back to Tad provided that there is a decent keeper to fill the void that was this season's virtually impregnable brick wall. 1 material goal allowed vs instate opponents.
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Post by aderitter on Mar 2, 2015 19:00:39 GMT -6
No one on this thread ever saw the undefeated 1999 Jesuit team? I got my teeth kicked in by them twice that year as they went 31 - 0 beating Acadiana 3-0 in the State Championship. Hard to believe they are not being talked about!
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Post by blaugranas on Mar 2, 2015 20:14:36 GMT -6
Is Vandy a top 10 club team in the country too since they tied St. Paul's 0-0 and won their division as well? This is certainly a disingenuous question! The idea that a singular result determines a comprehensive ranking position is silly at best. On a given night anything can happen with any two teams in a one off. The idea that a team is a top team in the country, or in the discussion as one of the best all time, is about their comprehensive body of work. I don't imagine than anyone would argue that 2003-2004 Bolton Wanderers were one of the best EPL teams of all time because they produced a draw against the Invincibles (Arsenal's unbeaten team that year, who is routinely discussed as one of the best ever). The mere thought is laughable at best. The argument is that the best teams over a course of the entire season find a way, often adverse situations, to get a result. SPS also had a draw against Gulport High on the road, in a tournament match, on a pitch that was the size of a U11 pitch. They previously beat Gulport 6-1. I don't think anyone is making the argument that Gulport is a top 10 team nationally. If your point is, that Vandy is also a really good team as well--they clearly are.... and as state champions they should be ecstatic with the season, especially with a relatively young team, it just doesn't get better! Does the draw with Vandy mean that 30-0-3 St Paul Wolves is not one of best all time,.... of course not! As for the match between the two.... anyone who was there watching, was elated when it was finally over. The 0-0 draw came after a half in which Vandy, played single high, 10 behind the ball.... for an entire half. Not only did they not have a single shot on goal the entire second half, they had nearly no TOUCHES in their offensive third the entire half. It was a 30 minute onslaught of balls, hitting the post, crossbar, repetitive corners, and WHO DAT impressive play by the Vandy keeper and organized back line. In fact it was an example of a coach, understanding his team, and opponent, and producing a strategy to get a result in a tournament environment. Just flat out good coaching, and situational adjustments. Now that service that has SPS ranked 2 nationally.... It's just for states that play winter high school soccer, and of course such services are numbers driven only, base on results and your competition's results..... but to answer your question about Vandy, they are also ranked on the same service.... #208. Perhaps that gives a little perspective aout the quality of St. Paul's season and competitive schedule.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 2, 2015 20:30:45 GMT -6
The point is, your speculation is just that, speculation. From what I read about Vandy, they did not play well at the beginning of the year, but as you said, played solid defensive soccer and held the Div. I winner goalless. Without them playing again for the title, all we have is pure speculation. And what is Vandy getting for their winning the Division II title this year and tying the Div. I title winners? Demotion to Division III. The state of Louisiana high school soccer is ridiculous. Get rid of the divisions and let the best play the best for the title.
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Post by soccerdad82 on Mar 2, 2015 20:30:59 GMT -6
THE CLUB GAME IS EXCELLENT FOR OUR SPORT. THE SKILL LEVEL IS VERY HIGH AND THE PLAYERS ARE VERY COMMITTED TO THE GAME. HOWEVER, WE MUST RECOGNIZE THAT SCHOOLS LIKE JESUIT AND ST. PAULS HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF HIGH LEVEL CLUB PLAYERS. PLEASE GIVE CREDIT TO THE COACHES OF THESE GREAT HIGH SCHOOL TEAMS THAT CAN HARNESS THEIR TALENTED TEAMS AND GET THEM TO PLAY WITH A WONDERFUL UNSELFISH TEAM ORIENTED STYLE THAT IS OFTEN LACKING IN CLUB SOCCER. THAT IS WHAT MAKES HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER DIFFERENT.
THIS ST. PAULS TEAM WAS AS TALENTED AS ANY CLUB TEAM, BUT IT IS THEIR UNSELFISH TEAM PLAY THAT MADE THEM UNBEATABLE. IT IS UNFAIR TO COMPARE THE TEAMS FROM THE 90'S TO THIS TEAM. THOSE TEAMS WERE GREAT IN THEIR TIME, BUT THE QUALITY OF PLAY AND DEGREE OF INDIVIDUAL SKILL IS TRULY WELL ADVANCED FROM SO MANY YEARS AGO.
JESUIT, DE LA SALLE, EASTON, SLIDELL, BROTHER MARTIN, CATHOLIC OF BATON ROUGE HAVE ALL FIELDED TREMENDOUS CHAMPIONSHIP SQUADS, BUT THIS ST. PAULS TEAM DEFINITELY SET A NEW STANDARD. CONGRATS TO THEIR COACHES AND PLAYERS.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 2, 2015 20:33:06 GMT -6
So good, but they couldn't beat the Division II winner.
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oranje
All-District
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Posts: 207
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Post by oranje on Mar 2, 2015 20:48:23 GMT -6
So good, but they couldn't beat the Division II winner. St Paul's won the tournament. All that matters ! Rest is small talk.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 2, 2015 21:20:18 GMT -6
LOL! Love it. So, you are saying a team playing on their home field, couldn't beat the Division II winner, much less score on them. Other teams scored on them.
What it all is, is speculation and small talk. To say a team is the best of all time, considering that the best do not play the best in this state on a yearly basis is just smug sophistry in my opinion. You were the best team of the high enrollment schools. That is all you can say. Until the best teams, regardless of school enrollment play, then it is all a bunch of bullcrap to me. You can tell yourselves how great you are. Does not mean others have to believe it.
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Post by keepingthefire on Mar 2, 2015 21:30:15 GMT -6
The answer is they don't. If they did, they would be even more dominant. While many of them play club soccer, most do not play on the same team and in fact, many play for different clubs.. Mandeville, Slidell, Madisonville, Covington, LA Fire, etc. If this group of young men had the opportunity to train together year round, as you are suggesting, they wouldn't just be state high school champions, they could easily be one of the top ten club teams in the country... honestly. Eh.gonna have to disagree with the "top 10 club teams in the country" analogy.
The reality is that St. Paul's would NOT be as good as they are if they did not (some of them) also play high level club ball. Club soccer is more technical and tactical. The ball moves faster.
I seriously doubt any St. Paul's player or parent would disagree with this. It's the high level club play that makes them a dominant hs team. Yes, the team chemistry helps. The coaching helps. But it is nearly impossible to have strong players that just play hs ball from Nov to Feb.
Go to some high level club events and showcases. St. Paul's is certainly elite by La hs standards.but let's not make it more than what it is.
Hall97 - Have been to Dallas Cup, Surf Cup, Jefferson Cup, IMG Showcase, etc... quarters, semis, and finals the last four years and can say confidently that if this year's St. Paul's team trained together as often as many of the top club teams in the country (most DA Clubs excluded), they would be a top 10 club team nationally. My emphasis is on their being able to train like year round club teams as Warrior 16 suggested they may do.
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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 2, 2015 21:44:27 GMT -6
LOL! Love it. So, you are saying a team playing on their home field, couldn't beat the Division II winner, much less score on them. Other teams scored on them. What it all is, is speculation and small talk. To say a team is the best of all time, considering that the best do not play the best in this state on a yearly basis is just smug sophistry in my opinion. You were the best team of the high enrollment schools. That is all you can say. Until the best teams, regardless of school enrollment play, then it is all a bunch of bullcrap to me. You can tell yourselves how great you are. Does not mean others have to believe it. You're out of your mind. Vanderbilt played that game not to lose, rather than to win. What's vanderbilts record btw? I don't believe they have 30 wins like SPS
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Post by keepingthefire on Mar 2, 2015 21:47:18 GMT -6
Louisiana is putting a better product on the field over the last few years. When I first starting working with club teams, no boys or girls teams were breaking brackets at Regional Championships regularly..however, I think the La representative on the boys side at u17B at u18 have broken brackets the last few years. On the girls side you had one team break bracket three straight years, win Region 3 once, and get within 1 goal of playing for the national championship. On the field product is improving. High Schools are reaping the benefits of these elite club players. I think the Development Academy system has had an impact on the regional/national USYS level.
Elite players can be found in many areas. That is true. But states like Florida, NTX and STX, Florida and North Carolina are still producing the top teams generally. Even though these states also have DA member teams that don't compete in USYS.
When you have states with huge clubs and 100-200K registered players, it is very hard for La, MS, AL and TN club teams able to compete regionally and nationally.
Just like with hs ball, it isn't the individual player quality as much as it is about roster depth.
Agree...... the DA and ECNL systems have siphoned off most (not all) of the USYS talent pool. As you correctly point out, it is all a numbers game based on population density and high per capita income zones. There. however, some USYS and US Club strongholds around the country where disillusioned Ex-DA players can still compete at a high level BUT... none of them is within driving distance of Louisiana unless you live in Hall97's neck of the woods and even that's a 3-4 hour drive to Dallas.
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Post by soccerdad82 on Mar 2, 2015 21:52:35 GMT -6
Vandebilt had a wonderful season. Congratulations to their players on their state championship. They defeated a Ben Franklin team that would've been favored by most local soccer 'experts'. But they played in a tenacious defensive style that allowed them to bring that game to PKs. They should be proud of their accomplishment. They should also cherish their result with St. Pauls, playing a magnificent defense, they held them scoreless. The division II winner has alot to be proud of.
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Post by cleansheets on Mar 2, 2015 22:08:06 GMT -6
LOL! Love it. So, you are saying a team playing on their home field, couldn't beat the Division II winner, much less score on them. Other teams scored on them. What it all is, is speculation and small talk. To say a team is the best of all time, considering that the best do not play the best in this state on a yearly basis is just smug sophistry in my opinion. You were the best team of the high enrollment schools. That is all you can say. Until the best teams, regardless of school enrollment play, then it is all a bunch of bullcrap to me. You can tell yourselves how great you are. Does not mean others have to believe it. Vandebilt played 10 men behind the ball and got a, GENEROUS, 3 shots on goal all game. They did not produce a single chance in the second half. The ball rarely left their own defensice third, besides clearances that went straight back into SPS possession. With that being said, there were several SPS starters that were missing in Disney World for the showcase. Not only were they missing, this game was played at Northalke Christian. That is not "at home". If the game was replayed on any given date, at any stadium/dirt pit, Vandebilt would lose hands down. I wasn't going to post but I grew tired of your ignorance to simply let it slide by.
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Post by Soccer Guy 10 on Mar 2, 2015 23:08:45 GMT -6
From what I saw, Vandy improved throughout the year and when it came to playoff time, played better soccer. Get rid of the speculation and end the divisional system. If relegation/promotion would be real, then we would not be speculating and you couldn't give us your beliefs, but instead rely on empirical facts. If Vandy drew 0-0, then St. Paul did not prove it was the best team in the state, so how can you say they are the best of all time. Now, I give St. Paul's credit for playing in Division I instead of 2 like they used to. All I know, that in over 10 years coming to this forum and discussing this topic, nothing has changed and the LHSAA continues to have these issues. We're seriously going to say this? It's just ridiculous. So you're saying that St. Paul's can not even be considered the best team in the state THIS YEAR after one stupid draw to a team parking the bus for 70 minutes? Not only were they not at full strength due to the Disney Showcase, it was also the second game of the day while it was Vandy's first. While I'm not sure they should be considered the best of all time, it's asinine to say they were not head and shoulders above everyone else this year. I'm interested to hear who this perfect team is that would take the throne from SPS as the best team this year.
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Post by agsurfer on Mar 3, 2015 1:03:36 GMT -6
LOL! Love it. So, you are saying a team playing on their home field, couldn't beat the Division II winner, much less score on them. Other teams scored on them. So let me get this straight, you are conflating a tie between SPS and Vandy to mean the teams are equal. Then you try to prove your premise by saying other teams scored on Vandy, but SPS didn't. Wow! That's the equivalent to saying since a fighter didn't get ko'd, and only landed 1 punch for every 10 by his opponent they are equal. Yes, Vandy did not concede a goal, but as has been stated previously, they survived the match. They may have achieved their goal for the game, I applaud the Vandy players for giving up their bodies in preventing many scoring oppertunities by SPS and their keeper for several class saves. That hardly makes them equivalent. The score may have been tied, but what wasn't equal was time of possession, shots on goal, keeper saves, and corners. Being obtuse in your simplistic attempt to correlate the two teams based off of this single event does not give your argument more credence, but only serves to weaken your credibility. Soccer seasons are not a singular match, just as any sport season is composed of many separate games. It is the sum of these matches which people use to draw their conclusion as to who are the best teams for that year. The LHSAA also uses the sum of the match outcomes to give power rankings. It is these power rankings which "kinda" determined who the best teams were for this H.S.season (the playoffs were final arbiter). So according to your belief Vandy and SPS were even. Not according to the body of evidence (records) and their power rankings. Vandy had a regular season ending PR of 12.90 and SPS had a 17.27. When trying to persuade someone to agree with your premise, it is advisable to have cogent facts instead of what appears to be your line of that's my story and i'm sticking to it. Vandy is a class young team and should have a strong season next year.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 2:12:08 GMT -6
I am saying RANKINGS do not mean nothing. If they did, Alabama would be National Champions of College Football. Dividing up teams into divisions is bogus too. You can say you are the best in the state, but until the best are all put in one pool, it is all pure speculation.
As for St. Paul's title, Vandy and Ben Franklin and St. Louis and other schools were not allowed to play, so you do not know what would happen if these schools were included in the final tournament to decide who the best team was. This is always the case in this state year after year after year.
Division I teams would probably win most of the state titles, but you cannot tell me that if you included the smaller enrollment clubs from the past years, that one, two, three or more may have taken the title themselves.
If you are the best, play the best.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 2:14:15 GMT -6
And stop with this they play with 10 men behind the ball excuse. Excuse me, but do you watch soccer? Remember when Greece won the European championship? In case you haven't figured it out yet, if you prevent teams from scoring on you, you will do well most of the time. You can tell me that St. Paul's has finishing problems against good defenses, because that is exactly what you are saying. If the USA keep their tough opponents to no goals, I am feeling good and happy. You say that Vandy is a class team, well then put up and play them for the right to be called the best team in the state.
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