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Post by agsurfer on Mar 3, 2015 15:01:22 GMT -6
"Hell No I was not in attendance. I was watching real competitive soccer where the good teams play one another."
I am quite sure that Vandy appreciates this comment, as you champion their cause then stab them in the back with a baseless statement. Who needs enemies with friends like this. As for SPS that's on them and not my problem. As for the competitiveness of the game, I will agree with you that it was not competitive at all.
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Post by aderitter on Mar 3, 2015 15:07:44 GMT -6
Sorry. Thanks for your nice comments. I saw the title of this thread as "Best Team in History" and I have to honor those who lost to Jesuit '99 for we had great teams in '99 and they were all toasted by this squad. They have to be in the conversation of who is the best team in history. The pot you are stirring seems to me to be a very valid thread that should stand on its own; I will let ya'll continue to argue and bow out. God Bless Ya'll and remember that we are on the 'same team' promoting the beautiful game.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 15:19:48 GMT -6
"Hell No I was not in attendance. I was watching real competitive soccer where the good teams play one another." I am quite sure that Vandy appreciates this comment, as you champion their cause then stab them in the back with a baseless statement. Who needs enemies with friends like this. As for SPS that's on them and not my problem. As for the competitiveness of the game, I will agree with you that it was not competitive at all. Sorry, I watch professional level soccer. I am not a champion of Vandy's cause. I have issues with them not stepping up to the challenge of playing Division I as St. Paul's did in order that they can win a lower division and call themselves champions. Again, the high school game has lost merit in my opinion so I do not follow it as closely due in fact that the system in place is one where the competition of the best teams do not meet on a regular basis for the title of being best in state. I have lost interest, because it is more of a popularity contest than I care to support.
As it stands this year, St. Paul's, Vandy, and even St. Louis can all contend that they were the best team in the state. I would like to see that changed to only one team making that conclusion and make that based on Empirical results, not conjecture and speculation.
Now, I will bow out of this conversation as well so the self aggrandizing can continue.
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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 3, 2015 16:21:04 GMT -6
"Hell No I was not in attendance. I was watching real competitive soccer where the good teams play one another." I am quite sure that Vandy appreciates this comment, as you champion their cause then stab them in the back with a baseless statement. Who needs enemies with friends like this. As for SPS that's on them and not my problem. As for the competitiveness of the game, I will agree with you that it was not competitive at all. Sorry, I watch professional level soccer. I am not a champion of Vandy's cause. I have issues with them not stepping up to the challenge of playing Division I as St. Paul's did in order that they can win a lower division and call themselves champions. Again, the high school game has lost merit in my opinion so I do not follow it as closely due in fact that the system in place is one where the competition of the best teams do not meet on a regular basis for the title of being best in state. I have lost interest, because it is more of a popularity contest than I care to support.
As it stands this year, St. Paul's, Vandy, and even St. Louis can all contend that they were the best team in the state. I would like to see that changed to only one team making that conclusion and make that based on Empirical results, not conjecture and speculation.
Now, I will bow out of this conversation as well so the self aggrandizing can continue.
you keep saying you're getting out of this conversation yet you were the one who started it? Also by your logic real soccer is professional so why are you even on a high school soccer forum ? You would be the first person (if sps and vandy did play for supreme soccer domination in Louisiana) to say "vandy is at a disadvantage since they're a smaller school", in addition you said St pauls has finishing problems since they didn't score, no one has implied sps was infallible all year plus everyone has their off day but a TRUE champion emerges at the end, not necessarily during a holiday tournament with 2 defenders and a striker out.
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Post by agsurfer on Mar 3, 2015 16:42:25 GMT -6
The only self agrandizing on this thread was your assertions about Vandy and your attempt to assert that a tie score makes two teams equal. Some on here are trying to compare teams from different eras and that is futile. Your claim to be just "stirring the pot" fell on its face. For the most part the only impression you produces was you are upset with the LHSAA and it has jaded your perspective.
As for that professional level soccer you watch, my kids and I also watch it and some games are absolutely horrible. So when you try to explain away your comment, it again doesn't make what you wrote any better.
Because you want the teams to play means nothing. Your incessant whining is sad and unbecoming of an adult. Why don't you step up to the plate and start a petition/drive to remove the classifications. With your stellar personality and persuasive logic I am sure you will be able win over enough principals to pass the measure. There are posters and coaches on this forum who agree with you. Maybe they will help. The system is what it is and until you change it, all teams have to play by these rules. If you don't wish to accept my challenge, then refrain from commenting about the need to allow certain teams play each other for a "true" state champion as you are the only one here bemoaning the point.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 16:55:53 GMT -6
The only self agrandizing on this thread was your assertions about Vandy and your attempt to assert that a tie score makes two teams equal. Some on here are trying to compare teams from different eras and that is futile. Your claim to be just "stirring the pot" fell on its face. For the most part the only impression you produces was you are upset with the LHSAA and it has jaded your perspective. As for that professional level soccer you watch, my kids and I also watch it and some games are absolutely horrible. So when you try to explain away your comment, it again doesn't make what you wrote any better. Because you want the teams to play means nothing. Your incessant whining is sad and unbecoming of an adult. Why don't you step up to the plate and start a petition/drive to remove the classifications. With your stellar personality and persuasive logic I am sure you will be able win over enough principals to pass the measure. There are posters and coaches on this forum who agree with you. Maybe they will help. The system is what it is and until you change it, all teams have to play by these rules. If you don't wish to accept my challenge, then refrain from commenting about the need to allow certain teams play each other for a "true" state champion as you are the only one here bemoaning the point. So wait, a tie score is indicative of one team being better than the other? LOL! Later! Your sophistry is noted.
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Post by raiderfan on Mar 3, 2015 18:48:58 GMT -6
The only self agrandizing on this thread was your assertions about Vandy and your attempt to assert that a tie score makes two teams equal. Some on here are trying to compare teams from different eras and that is futile. Your claim to be just "stirring the pot" fell on its face. For the most part the only impression you produces was you are upset with the LHSAA and it has jaded your perspective. As for that professional level soccer you watch, my kids and I also watch it and some games are absolutely horrible. So when you try to explain away your comment, it again doesn't make what you wrote any better. Because you want the teams to play means nothing. Your incessant whining is sad and unbecoming of an adult. Why don't you step up to the plate and start a petition/drive to remove the classifications. With your stellar personality and persuasive logic I am sure you will be able win over enough principals to pass the measure. There are posters and coaches on this forum who agree with you. Maybe they will help. The system is what it is and until you change it, all teams have to play by these rules. If you don't wish to accept my challenge, then refrain from commenting about the need to allow certain teams play each other for a "true" state champion as you are the only one here bemoaning the point. So wait, a tie score is indicative of one team being better than the other? LOL! Later! Your sophistry is noted. Actually, those familiar with the game (or really most sports) know that the score of an individual game/match does not really indicate which team is better than the other. That can easily be demonstrated by teams that played each other multiple times, yet didn't have the same result each time. It is particularly true in soccer, where scoring tends to be infrequent, and one team may get an incredible save on what normally would be a goal and another team might get a lucky defection off a mediocre shot attempt that ends up catching the keeper wrong-footed. A tie result, by itself, doesn't say the teams are equal, nor that one is better than the other.
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Post by Soccer Guy 10 on Mar 3, 2015 18:58:53 GMT -6
I still don't understand how St Paul's can't be considered the outright best team in the state due to the result of one stupid draw in a tournament game; yet Vandy can, even though they had numerous other ties and losses.
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Post by Soccer Guy 10 on Mar 3, 2015 19:03:26 GMT -6
And since you say you only watch "real soccer" I will put it into professional soccer terms. Is Bayern not the best team in the Bundesliga? Was Man City not the best team in England last year? I'm guessing you don't believe that the LA Galaxy were the best team in the MLS last year too?
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Post by agsurfer on Mar 3, 2015 20:51:26 GMT -6
The only self agrandizing on this thread was your assertions about Vandy and your attempt to assert that a tie score makes two teams equal. Some on here are trying to compare teams from different eras and that is futile. Your claim to be just "stirring the pot" fell on its face. For the most part the only impression you produces was you are upset with the LHSAA and it has jaded your perspective. As for that professional level soccer you watch, my kids and I also watch it and some games are absolutely horrible. So when you try to explain away your comment, it again doesn't make what you wrote any better. Because you want the teams to play means nothing. Your incessant whining is sad and unbecoming of an adult. Why don't you step up to the plate and start a petition/drive to remove the classifications. With your stellar personality and persuasive logic I am sure you will be able win over enough principals to pass the measure. There are posters and coaches on this forum who agree with you. Maybe they will help. The system is what it is and until you change it, all teams have to play by these rules. If you don't wish to accept my challenge, then refrain from commenting about the need to allow certain teams play each other for a "true" state champion as you are the only one here bemoaning the point. So wait, a tie score is indicative of one team being better than the other? LOL! Later! Your sophistry is noted. Nice try, but you cannot even quote very good even when it is in your response. I have never asserted which team is better, nor did I intimate it in your quoted post. You have relentlessly tried to make the case for Vandy being equal to SPS solely because they tied a game in December. Maybe you forgot what you posted, who knows. What is apparent is your premise is lame and disingenuous. This thread is the comparison of this years SPS team to championship teams from the past. Thus, it would behoove you to stay on topic. You have failed miserably at proving why Vandy should be considered within this group. A single tie in a 20-30 game season does not qualify any team to be considered by itself. Yes, they won state and I commend them on this accomplishment. SPS was 30-0-3 and the zero losses is what is special. Thus, Vandy by virtue of its 7 losses will not be considered. As far as a true "best team," I will be waiting to hear how your efforts go to make this happen.
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Post by soccerdad82 on Mar 3, 2015 20:57:51 GMT -6
No rational person really believes that St. Pauls wasn't the class of the state this year. Their dominance was obvious and their record and accomplishments speak for themselves. The original question was 'are they the best high school team in LA history'. Many former local players and present day officials and coaches have suggested that they might be, but that is simply a matter of debate.
I salute soccerboy for his passion for his team and his sport and he his entitled to his opinion, but it would be hard to construct an argument that Vandebilt is in the same class of program as a Jesuit or Mandeville, much less St. Pauls. We are really comparing apples to oranges.
What is certain is that this years St. Pauls team, by virtue of its outstanding record against high level out of state opponents and its truly dominating run in this years playoffs, established itself as a national power. The school has a number 1 ranking by maxpreps to prove it. To my knowledge, they are the first Louisiana team to have such an honor, and that truly speaks well of our states soccer status and position. It is a positive thing for all of Louisiana soccer.
Congrats to all on a very meaningful season, and I look forward to seeing more great soccer come from our local high school athletes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 21:00:15 GMT -6
So wait, a tie score is indicative of one team being better than the other? LOL! Later! Your sophistry is noted. Nice try, but you cannot even quote very good even when it is in your response. I have never asserted which team is better, nor did I intimate it in your quoted post. You have relentlessly tried to make the case for Vandy being equal to SPS solely because they tied a game in December. Maybe you forgot what you posted, who knows. What is apparent is your premise is lame and disingenuous. This thread is the comparison of this years SPS team to championship teams from the past. Thus, it would behoove you to stay on topic. You have failed miserably at proving why Vandy should be considered within this group. A single tie in a 20-30 game season does not qualify any team to be considered by itself. Yes, they won state and I commend them on this accomplishment. SPS was 30-0-3 and the zero losses is what is special. Thus, Vandy by virtue of its 7 losses will not be considered. As far as a true "best team," I will be waiting to hear how your efforts go to make this happen. Attachment Deleted
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Post by lsuatty on Mar 4, 2015 8:43:08 GMT -6
I don't know how or why Vandebilt got dragged into this thread, but, as a Vandy parent who was at the game against St. Paul, I can say this: ST. PAUL IS FRICKIN' GOOD!! REAL GOOD!! Best ever? I'll leave that to the experts to decide as I am certainly not qualified to judge (despite having extensive parent coaching experience at the rec U10 level (this is satire)), but again: ST. PAUL IS FRICKIN' GOOD!! Vandy played a masterful defense that prevented the wolves from having any easy shots, and they missed quite a few mid-range shots. But the defenders and the keeper probably had bruises after that game.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Mar 4, 2015 12:44:49 GMT -6
Only way to know who is best ever would be if you had a time machine and could get all the best teams from previous years and let them play. Short of that- all you have is opinions which may or may not have some factual basis. Everyone is going to have a different opinion.
You can say who was best in a division for the year with fact- they are state champs.
Actually same can be said of individual players. Unless you are staging a competition between individual players- it's fact based opinion.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 15:25:07 GMT -6
Only way to know who is best ever would be if you had a time machine and could get all the best teams from previous years and let them play. Short of that- all you have is opinions which may or may not have some factual basis. Everyone is going to have a different opinion. You can say who was best in a division for the year with fact- they are state champs. Actually same can be said of individual players. Unless you are staging a competition between individual players- it's fact based opinion. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards Great point concerning individual players. Problem is the individual players are usually selected from the top 2-4 teams.
Some players have to do "more with less".
Although I can say with confidence that St. Paul's has some of the best players in the state.
Roster depth, team chemistry and good coaching will take a team very far.
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Post by shreve/magnet pops on Mar 4, 2015 20:14:17 GMT -6
Is it me or did usasoccerboy take a 10 year vacation and come back on this & comment NEGATIVELY on every thread possible. Stir the pot, get it hot, & then bail! Thread is about st Paul's. He throws out Vandy & a tie game in a tourney. Everyone knows tourney games are shortened - coaches try different formations - players in different positions- a lot of games in a short period. etc. Come on man! st pauls- first heard of them when my college big brother played for them in the 80's. Still killing it. Class program. Play outside of the state for more development. Do it every year & break their OWN records! Best ever- good discussion- but can never figure out. how about best program of the decade etc! Obviously, I'm not a homer! But, credit goes to those who have earned it. I hope our program can just stay on the same field with them in the coming years!
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Post by shreve/magnet pops on Mar 4, 2015 20:31:57 GMT -6
Maybe I posted too quickly. I thought I read that the tie game was in tourney play. If not the case, my apologies.
The rest- I stand by.
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Post by cleansheets on Mar 4, 2015 20:46:20 GMT -6
Real soccer is when the speculation is left out. Fact is, schools like Ben Franklin, Vandy, and St. Louis and others were not allowed to compete and based on your previous game where a young Vandy team tied you on their field before finding their mojo, tells me that your limited tournament to define a Division I champion has problems that I have addressed. I don't rely upon Faith and speculation. I like empirical evidence and just because you beat other teams 3-0 does not mean you would have beaten these other teams 3-0, especially when they have already demonstrated to you on your home field that they could hold you scoreless. Since those who were at the game were able to see St. Paul's ridiculous domination over Vandebilt, here's some numbers for those who were not present and don't believe those posting here. [ Goals For - GF; Goals Against - GA ]
Vandebilt [15-7-5] - 72 GF, 30 GA in 27 games; Average GF/game 2.67; Average GA/game 1.11 Record against D1 (in LA) 1-3-3; 6 GF (0.86 AVG/game); 11 GA (1.57 AVG/game
St. Paul's [31-0-3] - 122 GF, 9 GA in 34 games; Average GF/game - 3.59; Average GA/game 0.26
Record against D1 (In LA) 21-0-0; 92 GF (4.38 AVG/game); 3 GA (0.14 AVG/game) TEAMS PLAYED IN COMMON: Vandebilt -- Brother Martin (L 2-0), Jesuit(T 1-1), East Ascension (W 3-0), Northshore (L 2-0), Grace King (T 1-1) St. Paul's -- Brother Martin (W 3-0), Jesuit (W 3-0), East Ascension (W 8-0), Northshore (W 2-1), Grace King (W 1-0) These numbers show the obvious fact that Vandebilt is, in fact, not of the same caliber as St. Paul's. Additionally, it is interesting that you claim Vandebilt equal to St. Paul's when they lost SEVEN games this season. Not to mention, Vandebilt never did play on St. Paul's home field like you stated. They played at Northlake Christian.
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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 4, 2015 20:54:39 GMT -6
Usa soccer boy..? Where are you? CMON don't hide
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oranje
All-District
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Post by oranje on Mar 4, 2015 22:14:38 GMT -6
Maybe I posted too quickly. I thought I read that the tie game was in tourney play. If not the case, my apologies. The rest- I stand by. Correct. The tie was in the St Paul's invitational.
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