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Post by soccerdad23 on Mar 31, 2015 17:54:59 GMT -6
This subject can be touchy!..never sure how to address issues like this so I usually don't! BUT..how does Jose Ferrand of Ben Franklin NOT be named coach of the year? Absolutely nothing against Loyola's coach Im sure he is a fine coach! However in Divisions I and III both COY won the state championship. Now I know that winning State isn't the only criteria. However its not like Loyola came out of nowhere to be in the championship game, they have been relevant for quite some time now.
So what more can a coach who goes undefeated in a season and wins the state championship by beating the only other undefeated team in the state have to do to be recognized as COY? just seemed like a head scratcher to me.
AGAIN..NOTHING AGAINST LOYOLA's COACH! |
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Post by Patriot fan on Apr 1, 2015 15:26:43 GMT -6
Would like to see vote tally for this award...
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 18:12:41 GMT -6
Sometimes folks like to spread things around when to comes to things like COY. Whether that is fair or makes sense is another question. Jose has gotten pretty decent recognition and some decent hardware for his accomplishments and he probably has much more to come. He certainly coached his boys and girls well enough this year to at least be toward the end of the conversation. Do you think it was a targeted conspiracy? Should the All State team have been all Franklin girls? Should other teams be allowed to play on the same field without genuflecting? Your post just seems like it comes from a sore winner. But how does it sound like its coming from a sore winner? Seriously....make your point and help me understand...I really want to! So far your only argument is that they just want to spread the awards around. But is that fair to the coach who has done better than the coach who won the award. would you deem it fair that if your boss came too you and said....you're a great worker the best I have but you've been given a raise in the past so in the sake of fairness we'll give the raise to someone less deserving than you so now that person will be making just as much as you?.....you'd be okay with that?
The only difference between Loyola's coach and BF's coach is that one won the state title and the other lost to the coach that won it......both had undefeated records going in......Both had a bunch of stud players...heck Loyola probably had more club players than BF......So what you're saying is that the ONLY reason Loyola's coach won the award is because Jose won it last year???........THAT HAS TO BE A SOCCER THING!
and why are you so shortsighted and negative......without even being able to give a better argument than you have? I mean really.... your reasoning was rather silly don't you think?(spread the awards around..REALLY!) and then to say that I'm a sore winner merely because I've pointed out the obvious! who wins COY or any other award I simply could care less. IF Loyola had won State and Jose had won COY I would be arguing for the coach that had the better resume.
And where in my post did I mention ANYTHING about players? OR an All State team? SMH.........Please come a little stronger and more intelligent next time.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 18:31:50 GMT -6
well at least you're halfway right about one thing!.....
do you not think that in 2 out of the 3 divisions the COY all won state titles and in D2 the losing coach won it?
is that NOT worthy of question or head scratching?
and I'm serious......was I really out of line by pointing that out and questioning it?
is that a really over the top concern?
whats right is right.......and to me that just didn't make sense.
and NOW you're bringing up some silly predictions from this board of how the game should have been a blowout to justify giving the award to the losing coach.
Ive been to BF games and 3/4 of the people predicting had never been to a BF game.
so trust me those predictions meant nothing.
Nothing you've said so far makes sense.....they weren't neck and neck....Jose beat him head to head.
and so by your silly logic, had BF lost by 1 point Jose would have won COY?
that what you saying? because the only thing separating the two coaches is that one won and one lost.
Really! I told you come strong and intelligent
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 18:35:53 GMT -6
You posted "..who wins COY or any other award I simply could care less. " If you could care less why make the post? Because I wanted to! |
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 19:04:55 GMT -6
your argument is flawed sir and you're not making any sense is all i'm saying!
and it seems you're getting angry when its pointed out to you.
it appears you posted without thinking it through.
I don't know how it should be determined and quite frankly there in may lie the problem.
NO ONE KNOWS!
my argument has been fairly simple.....you're the one that's all over the place.
In all but one division the COY was the state winning coach.
in D2 it was not......what separated Loyola's coach from BF's coach
SIMPLE! answer that......and don't give me assumptions which is all you've offered so far
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 19:08:59 GMT -6
And you are disrespecting the Loyola coach with your arrogance rather than respecting Coach Ferrand. How you figure I'm disrespecting anyone? I'm beginning to think you're some kid on here because you're throwing a tantrum!
and what have I said that's arrogant? because you're unable to intelligently outline your argument I'm arrogant! LOL!
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 19:13:16 GMT -6
you're calling me arrogant but your very first post you are attacking me
calling me a sore winner and referencing things that I did not even speak on
right or wrong?
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 19:18:21 GMT -6
The only thing you have offered is that whichever teams coach wins should be COY..Lets do that and make it more simple. . no I didn't ! I said nothing about how the award should be awarded now have I?(go ahead and check) I merely pointed out that the other two COY did win state! and one lost state. then I asked what would make Jose unworthy or what more could he have done because obviously he did not do enough to garner the COY honor now did he?
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 19:44:47 GMT -6
you should have stayed quiet from jump street!
stay quiet when grown folks talking! :-)
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 1, 2015 19:57:56 GMT -6
you shoulda!
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Post by vistajay on Apr 2, 2015 8:35:37 GMT -6
I think you had two things working against Coach Ferrand. First didn't he win COY last year? If so it would be hard to garner enough votes for back to back no matter his accomplishments this year. Also I suspect there is a perception by some that the Franklin squad was more talented than any other, and the team managed to stay healthy for the first time in a while, so Ferrand was handed the keys to a Ferrari (so to speak). Not my opinion but may have influenced some voters. Plus of course, the Loyola coach did a great job and gave Franklin a stiff challenge in the final.
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 2, 2015 9:18:45 GMT -6
I think you had two things working against Coach Ferrand. First didn't he win COY last year? If so it would be hard to garner enough votes for back to back no matter his accomplishments this year. Also I suspect there is a perception by some that the Franklin squad was more talented than any other, and the team managed to stay healthy for the first time in a while, so Ferrand was handed the keys to a Ferrari (so to speak). Not my opinion but may have influenced some voters. Plus of course, the Loyola coach did a great job and gave Franklin a stiff challenge in the final. Great response! and I can agree and that makes sense! my only question would be why cant you win back to back COY? not necessarily saying Jose should have......BUT!
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 2, 2015 10:29:46 GMT -6
I'm going to do something I never do.
Im going to pick a COY
my pick would be the coach from East Jefferson! HANDS DOWN!
she took her team from obscurity to winning their first EVER playoff game!
NOW THATS an accomplishment!
most couldn't name one player from that team but that coach absolutely got the most out of her players!
that team fought BF tooth and nail and NEVER quit!
she didn't have the players with the pedigrees that the top programs have and she didn't have the keys to a Ferrari!(hope that hadn't been copyrighted yet)
She had her team do it through hard work and determination!
you'd be hard pressed to find a coach in ANY division that did what that coach did!
not sure her name(I think Yasmine).....but that's the true COACH OF THE YEAR! :-)
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 2, 2015 11:16:22 GMT -6
that's not true
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 2, 2015 11:17:28 GMT -6
I would have agreed with you if you were smart enough to word it differently and give it some substance!
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 2, 2015 11:35:08 GMT -6
For the record myarsenal is El Stupido and Chirdish! :-)
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Post by Antimatter on Apr 2, 2015 11:46:18 GMT -6
I think you had two things working against Coach Ferrand. First didn't he win COY last year? If so it would be hard to garner enough votes for back to back no matter his accomplishments this year. Also I suspect there is a perception by some that the Franklin squad was more talented than any other, and the team managed to stay healthy for the first time in a while, so Ferrand was handed the keys to a Ferrari (so to speak). Not my opinion but may have influenced some voters. Plus of course, the Loyola coach did a great job and gave Franklin a stiff challenge in the final. Great response! and I can agree and that makes sense! my only question would be why cant you win back to back COY? not necessarily saying Jose should have..BUT!
"not necessarily saying Jose should have"..What does that mean? If you are not saying he should have what is the point of your posts? IF you think he should have won it, say it instead of murky statements. You earlier stated "..who wins COY or any other award I simply could care less" and then proceed to make multiple posts about something you state you could care less about. There are two facts in play. Coach Ferrand did enough to deserve coach of the year and Coach Matlock did enough to deserve coach of the year. They both went undefeated during the season and both played up against the best in D1. There can be more than one deserving of the award though they can only award one trophy. If I had a vote I would have given it to Jose. His two ties against a good D1 champion in SSA showed me as much as the final but they did not consult me. I can only guess that perhaps those who are empowered with choosing a winner thought that matching the expectations against the outcome that Matlock achieved more if only slightly. I have no idea. And some folks who pick such awards might lean slightly away from the previous years winner. I do not think that is appropriate but it happens. Certainly it could be argued that Matlock had decent talent himself but I think the Franklin core was stronger. Of course it still takes a great coach to win a title with even the best talent. The Bulls did not breakthrough with Michael Jordan until Phil Jackson came to town. In some ways coaching a team that is perceived to have a lot of talent has it own challenges. The thing is when they talk about great coaches they seldom talk about the number of times they won Coach of the Year. They talk about the trophies and Jose has and will have plenty of those. Back to Phil Jackson he only won Coach of the Year ONCE even though he had 11 NBA titles. |
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Post by soccerdad23 on Apr 2, 2015 12:16:03 GMT -6
Great response! and I can agree and that makes sense! my only question would be why cant you win back to back COY? not necessarily saying Jose should have..BUT!
"not necessarily saying Jose should have"..What does that mean? If you are not saying he should have what is the point of your posts? IF you think he should have won it, say it instead of murky statements. You earlier stated "..who wins COY or any other award I simply could care less" and then proceed to make multiple posts about something you state you could care less about. There are two facts in play. Coach Ferrand did enough to deserve coach of the year and Coach Matlock did enough to deserve coach of the year. They both went undefeated during the season and both played up against the best in D1. There can be more than one deserving of the award though they can only award one trophy. If I had a vote I would have given it to Jose. His two ties against a good D1 champion in SSA showed me as much as the final but they did not consult me. I can only guess that perhaps those who are empowered with choosing a winner thought that matching the expectations against the outcome that Matlock achieved more if only slightly. I have no idea. And some folks who pick such awards might lean slightly away from the previous years winner. I do not think that is appropriate but it happens. Certainly it could be argued that Matlock had decent talent himself but I think the Franklin core was stronger. Of course it still takes a great coach to win a title with even the best talent. The Bulls did not breakthrough with Michael Jordan until Phil Jackson came to town. In some ways coaching a team that is perceived to have a lot of talent has it own challenges. The thing is when they talk about great coaches they seldom talk about the number of times they won Coach of the Year. They talk about the trophies and Jose has and will have plenty of those. Back to Phil Jackson he only won Coach of the Year ONCE even though he had 11 NBA titles. NOW That was a great response!! well thought out and made sense! and you're not attacking me! (at least I don't think so)
I NEVER said who should have won the award now did I?(other than EJ's Coach woulda got my vote) I didn't care who won the super bowl, but I watched it and had opinions about it. as far as the thread....pretty much up until this thread this site has pretty much been dead! Im just sparking conversation! And why?.......well there was a deviation from the perceived norm and in both DI and DIII the state winning coach got the COY.....in DII the losing coach got it! on its face that's seems strange does it not? NOW some good explanations and dialogue can explain away a lot of things.
Both those coaches did an exceptional job! Now I do need to apologize to coach Matlock because not one time did I congratulate him on his award, and I was wrong for that......... Congratulations Coach Mark Matlock of Loyola!!
and myaresnal I don't think you're El Stupido! :-)
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Post by Antimatter on Apr 2, 2015 12:23:57 GMT -6
A perceived norm is not a norm nor a rule. If you look at Barclays I believe Tony Pulis of Crystal Palace won for Manager of the Year last year after an 11th place finish. While I do not believe there should be a rule against winning it back to back I like the idea of the award sometimes recognizing a coach with less perceived talent reaching a goal disproportionate to that perceived talent.
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