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Post by AgSurfer on Feb 1, 2019 16:06:19 GMT -6
In USSF, substitutions are one of the things we add time for. It makes sense with a 3/4 sub limit. It it a little tougher when subs are unlimited to add time back for all of them. One referee did it in state cup a few years back, he added 15 minutes to a U13 game which plays a 35 minute half. Doesn't make much sense does it? NISOA stops the clock in the last 5 minutes whenever the team in the lead subs. 15 minutes?? That’s crazy! A few years back, a ref added better than 8 minutes to a State Playoff game. Score was 2-1 with only 2 goals in second half and two yellows. Losing team went on to win when they scored the tying goal and then ref blew end of game, then scored game winner in second overtime period.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 1, 2019 18:48:10 GMT -6
Also, in IFAB/FIFA/club you have a full minute to work with. When the fourth official holds that big green 2 on the board it signifies at least 2:00 but up to 2:59 of additional time. In NFHS/NCAA, you don't get that, time expires when 00:00 is hit. Good, bad, indifferent. I personally find it to be good. I've been at way too many games where parents (ours and theirs) simply couldn't believe the ref blew the whistle when he/she did. "We were in the attacking third..." being the most common complaint. Let's see the clock and let it be the enemy - not the guy in the center of the field.
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 1, 2019 18:50:53 GMT -6
I am never sure how Rule 3 section 6 plays in here: "When a team repeatedly substitutes to consume time, a referee shall order the timer to stop the time clock during such substitutions and shall notify the coach of the offending team". Surely the coach of the other team should be notified also, or do we just continue to bait him/her and then caution/send off when they justifiably explode? Are we allowed to add some time back onto the clock? How do we signal to someone in the press box how much time should be added back on? If "team A" has been wasting the time, but is losing at the end of regulation time, should we reward them by giving them the time back, thereby punishing "team B"? Are we going to force all schools to have VAR installed for "buzzer beater" shots? If I am right, in basketball, so long as the ball is released before the buzzer sounds, the points are good; in throwball, it is the time when the ball is snapped. What would the rule be for soccer? This is precisely why soccer does not and should not follow this ridiculous idea. Exactly. The ref is the true time keeper. And I agree the ref is the true time keeper. Let him/her say when the clock should run or not. But let time be the final determinant of the end of the game. And for soccer I'd apply the whole ball, whole line thinking in that setting and unless the ball is completely across the goal line before the buzzer, it doesn't count.
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Post by firebruin on Feb 1, 2019 21:28:28 GMT -6
Does anyone know if I enter in 9-8 for the game score for 1-1 (8-7)?
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Post by time2retire on Feb 1, 2019 21:34:20 GMT -6
Does anyone know if I enter in 9-8 for the game score for 1-1 (8-7)? 2-1
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Post by DocT on Feb 1, 2019 23:34:00 GMT -6
Does anyone know if I enter in 9-8 for the game score for 1-1 (8-7)? I would make a joke, but I hear I may get banned for trying to be funny. So my answer is ummm 2-1
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Post by time2retire on Feb 1, 2019 23:35:28 GMT -6
Does anyone know if I enter in 9-8 for the game score for 1-1 (8-7)? I would make a joke, but I hear I may get banned for trying to be funny. So my answer is ummm 2-1 1 post immunity
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Post by dogso on Feb 2, 2019 11:58:41 GMT -6
Does anyone know if I enter in 9-8 for the game score for 1-1 (8-7)? 2-1 Beg to differ 1-1 (8-7) is the proper designation denoting the winning team. When shown in bracket the score shows as 1-1 with the winning team moving forward in bracket. See 2018 NCAA Div I Mens bracket for example.
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Post by firebruin on Feb 2, 2019 21:43:17 GMT -6
Well.. the LHSAA system didn't like anything else except a number so I put 2-1 even though I think 9-8 would have looked cooler in the archives.
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Post by lsugunner on Feb 5, 2019 22:42:23 GMT -6
What is the rule regarding who gets home field when one team is the upsetting (lower) seed?
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2019 22:54:03 GMT -6
Beg to differ 1-1 (8-7) is the proper designation denoting the winning team. When shown in bracket the score shows as 1-1 with the winning team moving forward in bracket. See 2018 NCAA Div I Mens bracket for example. NFHS Rules page 82 - Tie Game Procedure A-3.g: Add one goal to the winning team score and credit the team with a victory. An asterisk (*) may be placed by the team advancing to indicate the advancement was the result of a tie breaker system.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2019 22:56:32 GMT -6
What is the rule regarding who gets home field when one team is the upsetting (lower) seed? Handbook 6.13.9
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Post by straightdummin on Feb 6, 2019 9:17:19 GMT -6
What is the rule regarding who gets home field when one team is the upsetting (lower) seed? Handbook 6.13.9 link?
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 6, 2019 9:50:27 GMT -6
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Post by AgSurfer on Feb 6, 2019 10:48:18 GMT -6
6.13.9 Determining the Home Team: The home team for playoff games shall be determined as follows: 1. Bi-District Round of Play A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football, soccer, softball and volleyball in all classes/divisions, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. A “bye” shall be counted as a home game. 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. 2. The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team. 3. If both teams traveled or were home teams in the first round, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. In the sport of softball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. Exception: If a team draws a bye. C. In the sport of volleyball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 3. Quarterfinal Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) A. The team that has traveled more in the first and second rounds shall be the home team. B. If both teams have traveled the same number of times in the first and second rounds, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. C. In the sport of basketball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 4. Semi-final Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) - the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 5. At the state championships (in all applicable rounds of play) - the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 6. Opposing schools may, by mutual agreement, reverse a game site. A reversal of the home/away site for any reason shall not affect the criteria cited in the above rules.
So, if I am reading this right, all 8 teams receiving byes in their respective Divisions, are considered to have played a "home" game (6.13.9.1B). Here is where things get a little convoluted, as 6.13.9.2A states who the home team is supposed to be for the Regional round of playoff games. How can a lower seed team who traveled and won in their Bi-District game be the away team again. It clearly states a "bye" is considered a home game in the Bi-District round and 6.13.9.2A.2 clearly states "the team that traveled in the first round, the Bi-District round for soccer, shall be the home team."
This rule contradicts itself and needs to be clarified. In 6.13.9.2A.3 it even clarifies who is the "home" team if both teams were the "home" team in the first round (Bi-District). It does not rely on the previous line, 6.13.9.2A.1, but clearly designates who is the "home" team when both were "home" teams in the Bi-District round. It does not make the same clarification for 6.13.9.2A.2. declaring the team who received the "bye" as the "home" team. It simply states, "The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team." Thus, should the lower seed team, who traveled and won their Bi-District match, be the home team in the Regional round of the playoffs?
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Post by straightdummin on Feb 6, 2019 11:06:45 GMT -6
6.13.9 Determining the Home Team: The home team for playoff games shall be determined as follows: 1. Bi-District Round of Play A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football, soccer, softball and volleyball in all classes/divisions, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. A “bye” shall be counted as a home game. 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. 2. The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team. 3. If both teams traveled or were home teams in the first round, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. In the sport of softball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. Exception: If a team draws a bye. C. In the sport of volleyball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 3. Quarterfinal Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) A. The team that has traveled more in the first and second rounds shall be the home team. B. If both teams have traveled the same number of times in the first and second rounds, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. C. In the sport of basketball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 4. Semi-final Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) - the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 5. At the state championships (in all applicable rounds of play) - the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 6. Opposing schools may, by mutual agreement, reverse a game site. A reversal of the home/away site for any reason shall not affect the criteria cited in the above rules. So, if I am reading this right, all 8 teams receiving byes in their respective Divisions, are considered to have played a "home" game (6.13.9.1B). Here is where things get a little convoluted, as 6.13.9.2A states who the home team is supposed to be for the Regional round of playoff games. How can a lower seed team who traveled and won in their Bi-District game be the away team again. It clearly states a "bye" is considered a home game in the Bi-District round and 6.13.9.2A.2 clearly states "the team that traveled in the first round, the Bi-District round for soccer, shall be the home team." This rule contradicts itself and needs to be clarified. In 6.13.9.2A.3 it even clarifies who is the "home" team if both teams were the "home" team in the first round (Bi-District). It does not rely on the previous line, 6.13.9.2A.1, but clearly designates who is the "home" team when both were "home" teams in the Bi-District round. It does not make the same clarification for 6.13.9.2A.2. declaring the team who received the "bye" as the "home" team. It simply states, "The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team." Thus, should the lower seed team, who traveled and won their Bi-District match, be the home team in the Regional round of the playoffs? 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. and that is where you stop reading.
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Post by AgSurfer on Feb 6, 2019 13:30:20 GMT -6
6.13.9 Determining the Home Team: The home team for playoff games shall be determined as follows: 1. Bi-District Round of Play A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football, soccer, softball and volleyball in all classes/divisions, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. A “bye” shall be counted as a home game. 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. 2. The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team. 3. If both teams traveled or were home teams in the first round, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. In the sport of softball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. Exception: If a team draws a bye. C. In the sport of volleyball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 3. Quarterfinal Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) A. The team that has traveled more in the first and second rounds shall be the home team. B. If both teams have traveled the same number of times in the first and second rounds, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. C. In the sport of basketball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 4. Semi-final Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) - the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 5. At the state championships (in all applicable rounds of play) - the higher seeded team shall be the home team. 6. Opposing schools may, by mutual agreement, reverse a game site. A reversal of the home/away site for any reason shall not affect the criteria cited in the above rules. So, if I am reading this right, all 8 teams receiving byes in their respective Divisions, are considered to have played a "home" game (6.13.9.1B). Here is where things get a little convoluted, as 6.13.9.2A states who the home team is supposed to be for the Regional round of playoff games. How can a lower seed team who traveled and won in their Bi-District game be the away team again. It clearly states a "bye" is considered a home game in the Bi-District round and 6.13.9.2A.2 clearly states "the team that traveled in the first round, the Bi-District round for soccer, shall be the home team." This rule contradicts itself and needs to be clarified. In 6.13.9.2A.3 it even clarifies who is the "home" team if both teams were the "home" team in the first round (Bi-District). It does not rely on the previous line, 6.13.9.2A.1, but clearly designates who is the "home" team when both were "home" teams in the Bi-District round. It does not make the same clarification for 6.13.9.2A.2. declaring the team who received the "bye" as the "home" team. It simply states, "The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team." Thus, should the lower seed team, who traveled and won their Bi-District match, be the home team in the Regional round of the playoffs? 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. and that is where you stop reading. Your premise is quite valid if you do not count the "bye" as a "home" game, but the wording of the previous section, 6.13.9.1B, where it classifies a Bye" as a "home game" does not allow for this. Thus, the next section, 6.13.9.2, is based off of the preceding section. Unless the LHSAA removes the wording, " B. A “bye” shall be counted as a home game.", then by definition a lower seed who traveled, and won, should have the "home" game against a team receiving a "home" game "bye". I understand this is not the intent of this rule, but words have meanings and these statements are quite clear in their meaning. If you can give me a different definition of the sentence, "A “bye” shall be counted as a home game.", it would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by straightdummin on Feb 6, 2019 14:39:45 GMT -6
2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. and that is where you stop reading. Your premise is quite valid if you do not count the "bye" as a "home" game, but the wording of the previous section, 6.13.9.1B, where it classifies a Bye" as a "home game" does not allow for this. Thus, the next section, 6.13.9.2, is based off of the preceding section. Unless the LHSAA removes the wording, " B. A “bye” shall be counted as a home game.", then by definition a lower seed who traveled, and won, should have the "home" game against a team receiving a "home" game "bye". I understand this is not the intent of this rule, but words have meanings and these statements are quite clear in their meaning. If you can give me a different definition of the sentence, "A “bye” shall be counted as a home game.", it would be greatly appreciated. you are trying to apply a term or definition from the Bi-District Round to the Regional Round. That is why you don't understand
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 6, 2019 16:21:20 GMT -6
6.13.9 Determining the Home Team: The home team for playoff games shall be determined as follows: 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. 2. The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team. 3. If both teams traveled or were home teams in the first round, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. B. In the sport of softball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. Exception: If a team draws a bye. C. In the sport of volleyball, the higher seeded team shall be the home team.I think paragraph 2 is intended to be sequential. "Rule 1" applies if there are byes. If no byes then "Rule 2" applies and so on.
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Post by AgSurfer on Feb 6, 2019 16:38:08 GMT -6
Your premise is quite valid if you do not count the "bye" as a "home" game, but the wording of the previous section, 6.13.9.1B, where it classifies a Bye" as a "home game" does not allow for this. Thus, the next section, 6.13.9.2, is based off of the preceding section. Unless the LHSAA removes the wording, " B. A “bye” shall be counted as a home game.", then by definition a lower seed who traveled, and won, should have the "home" game against a team receiving a "home" game "bye". I understand this is not the intent of this rule, but words have meanings and these statements are quite clear in their meaning. If you can give me a different definition of the sentence, "A “bye” shall be counted as a home game.", it would be greatly appreciated. you are trying to apply a term or definition from the Bi-District Round to the Regional Round. That is why you don't understand The guidelines for Rule 6.13.9: Determining the Home Team are all under this heading. They run in sequence, Sequence from Merriam-Webster Online: 4 a : CONSEQUENCE, RESULT b : a subsequent development 5 : continuity of progression describing how each round of games affect "home" team determination for the next round. So, yes, I do understand how the Rule works and is written. The application from Bi-District to Regional rounds is where I am perplexed. When each subsection of the rule is defining how the "home" team is determined for each round of the playoffs, other than the first, it is most certainly to be based off of the previous round of games. Otherwise, the higher seed would always be at home. You wrote, rules/definitions for Bi-District games are not to be applied to the Regional round, which you seem to believe has its own set of Rules not being derived from the previous round(s) games. I disagree:The Rule 6.13.9.2 makes reference to the wording and "home/away" designation of the previous round or first (for soccer, the Bi-District) round of play. 2. Regional Round of Play (Non-Select Football) / Quarterfinal Round of Play (Select Football) A. In the sports of baseball, basketball, football and soccer in all classes/divisions: 1. Any team that drew a bye in the first round shall be the home team. 2. The team that traveled in the first round shall be the home team. 3. If both teams traveled or were home teams in the first round, the higher seeded team shall be the home team. Look at the Quarter Final wording, 3. Quarterfinal Round of Play (If played on a home-away basis) A. The team that has traveled more in the first and second rounds shall be the home team. B. If both teams have traveled the same number of times in the first and second rounds, the higher seeded team shall be the home team.Notice the inclusion of the previous two rounds of play used to determine the "home" team. The same definition used in the first section of this Rule for "home/away" designations. So, am I to believe the writers were wrong in "applying" the terms/definitions from previous sections of this Rule to subsequent sections to determine the "home" team? Did, they not understand what they were writing? So, again, unless there is a definition where, "A “bye” shall be counted as a home game" in the Bi-District round, does not mean what it says, then I stand by my original question.
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