BC Fan
All-District
Posts: 140
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Post by BC Fan on Feb 14, 2019 21:46:25 GMT -6
Reread your own post, other than your silly “privilege” statement without any backing, other than mentioning lack of ability (most clubs have options at various levels) it is all priority. I won’t argue that many schools lack talent. The schools that have it though, have it due to priorities and commitment on the part of the players and their parents. Not privilege Oh I completely agree that it requires prioritizing club and making a serious commitment. However, that’s not the ONLY thing that keeps players from competing in club soccer, which was my point. Anyways back to the thread- I’m also against the split. There will always be powerhouses in each division, and there will still be powerhouses in the new divisions after a split. I’d be curious to see what all of the split divisions would look like though. I’d guess the powerhouses in each division would be easy to pick out. Also- when did it go from Private/Public to Select/Non-select or has that always been the issue? There’s a lot of public schools that are restricted by parish that fall under the select category. Of course you are against it. You are a select school and don’t want to have to go though Jesuit, St. Paul’s and Catholic and Holy Cross and others each year. It is select and non select now cause you select public schools don’t have school zones and are basically free private schools. Especially up north of I10 where public schools rule and unlike south, private schools are usually smaller schools and not the impressive money schools. North LA is more like Texas in that regard. But south Louisiana, all the money is in private schools or free select schools. All the club players except a few go there. There are rules like a rule that lets kids go to catholic schools out of their zone and play immediately if they choose due to no catholic school in their zone. This happens a lot around here. No matter how hard I see kids and coaches work, it never matters. No matter how good they are with their resources and being dads to those kids and the problems those coaches and players have to deal with aren’t even close to what the select private’s even can fathom. I played and coached at Beau Chene. It’s night and day the stuff we have seen and had to endure just to have a program. And yet if the split had happened to soccer when it happened to the other sports like Basketball and baseball, BC would have 4-5 state titles right now. I know coach wants to be the first to win one as a public since Carencro but it’s an uphill battle every year. Compare the rosters of Holy Cross and Beau Chene. Or STM and BC. You can’t imagine the differences in what those kids do every day and how many are not even privalidged enough to even go to every practice due to work, or problems at home and other stuff. Sometimes don’t even have enough money to go eat at subway or McDonald with teammates. Much less going to club practice and traveling. We do have club players as well and are lucky, but seriously, anyone that thinks that Beau Chene is on level field as Holy across or STM is so ridiculously mistaken it’s crazy. Don’t be fooled by results even if they are finagled numbers and playing the numbers games. I’ve been told thebsolit is coming and it’s about time. Nothing will ever change in this sport, and with people voting against helping smaller public schools cause they feel it waters down their sport they dominate in, its ridiculous. Even Beau Chene was for helping smaller public schools and others with 32 teams. But the only thing that mattered this year was letting private and select schools get what they wanted and their championships. Now next time it will be the public schools turn to get everything they want. After all, teams like BC have no business and no shot vs HC so why are any of you against it? If one of the best public school programs has no shot against the private school favorite, then is the playing field level? And sure you can’t point to St Amant and other D1 powers that are public, but really, I’m quite sure even they will agree with all that the playing fields are not even at all. Even if they beat St Paul’s there is no comparison to the programs and what really goes on to make each successful. I’m done, y’all keep thinking it’s cool and it’s all about giving everyone a trophy. The facts are this sport is the most uneven toward private schools and the more of you that just sits there and says oh my public school shouldn’t be for a split, then you are why the private’s keep getting it all. And they will co tinue to just beat up every public school hopeful program each year and then everyone can just say everting is fine still. It’s not, when the playing field is that uneven, it’s not right for all the kids and the coaches that work their butts off. I’m done
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Post by drogba on Feb 14, 2019 22:07:22 GMT -6
😂. I hope we go 16 champions get your trophy style and make everyone happy. The board will be a different fun and won’t need power ratings Heck actually may kill the board. The tourney s as well the selects will not play at non select school tournaments also won’t need PR every team will make playoffs.
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Post by cajunczar on Feb 15, 2019 0:22:58 GMT -6
Lets try this: if St Paul’s beats St Amant and Jesuit beats Northshore we can have another round...
A combined St Amant/Dutchtown v St Paul’s and then a combined Northshore/Mandeville v Jesuit.
The winner of this extra round would play for the Division I state championship.
Now since none of these 4 public schools are not magnet schools I would think it it would be more than fair to see how this “all star” parish format would compete against these two powerhouse select schools.
PS- I know there are other public schools in each parish. I am trying to prove a point.
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Post by itsallgood on Feb 15, 2019 0:36:31 GMT -6
Lets try this: if St Paul’s beats St Amant and Jesuit beats Northshore we can have another round... A combined St Amant/Dutchtown v St Paul’s and then a combined Northshore/Mandeville v Jesuit. The winner of this extra round would play for the Division I state championship. Now since none of these 4 public schools are not magnet schools I would think it it would be more than fair to see how this “all star” parish format would compete against these two powerhouse select schools. PS- I know there are other public schools in each parish. I am trying to prove a point. Now you’re talking !!
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Post by kahnman on Feb 15, 2019 4:10:17 GMT -6
r]Now since none of these 4 public schools are not magnet schools I would think it it would be more than fair to see how this “all star” parish format would compete against these two powerhouse select schools.
You are getting close, but unfortunately, you have not evened the playing field yet, by including only 1 parish for your challenging team. To make it an even fight, you need to include the surrounding 2-3 parishes as well for your combo team. I mean let’s be real, those teams pull from a 2-3 parish area...
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 15, 2019 5:26:03 GMT -6
Lets try this: if St Paul’s beats St Amant and Jesuit beats Northshore we can have another round... A combined St Amant/Dutchtown v St Paul’s and then a combined Northshore/Mandeville v Jesuit. The winner of this extra round would play for the Division I state championship. Now since none of these 4 public schools are not magnet schools I would think it it would be more than fair to see how this “all star” parish format would compete against these two powerhouse select schools. PS- I know there are other public schools in each parish. I am trying to prove a point. St Amant/Dutchtown all star team? My money would be on them. Zayne and Bridgewater together? Gallstar would have to be permanently banned.
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 15, 2019 6:25:36 GMT -6
Even just from a practical standpoint without considering cost. Some kids can’t play club. Take a kid in Monroe- they may not have a team for their age in Monroe. Their choices are likely Sheveport or Jackson- 1-1/2 hours away. Mom and Dad both work and there are younger siblings. The player isn’t old enough to drive. Mom gets off at 5. By the time she can get the kid and get either place- it’s 7:00 PM. Most clubs don’t start practice that late and even if they did- you wouldn’t get home until 10. This leaves Dad to take care of younger siblings and their activities 2-3 times a week. Now if it’s a single parent with multiple children- I don’t know how you do it. And cost- even with scholarships, you can spend several thousands of dollars if you are on an elite team just in travel. The best thing would be if they would do away with practice rules and allow teams to practice and possibly scrimmage year round. This is close to our life. Our son plays at a club just under an hour away. Practice starts at 7. We get home just before 10. Its not that bad.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 15, 2019 6:50:18 GMT -6
Since 2002 (as far back as LHSAA archive goes):
Division I finals appearances:
Jesuit 11 St Paul’s 9
Division IIfinals appearances:
Vandebilt 9 St. Louis 10
^this gets a little wonky because of the switch from three divisions to four but you get my point.
Division III finals appearances: Newman 6
Why don’t we just split these five schools? Is it an issue you have with select schools having an advantage or just these schools? The idea that a split would help Louisiana soccer or is good for the kids is baffling.
Programs would die. A few programs have dominated the state the last 15 years and its our job as coaches to figure out how to beat them, not run away because it’s just so sad that we can’t seem to win. Also, the club soccer thing is a great point until you look at some of the schools dominating the divisions:
St. Paul’s/Jesuit/Newman: LA Fire/MSC - makes sense two of the biggest clubs in the state
Vandebilt/St. Louis don’t have huge clubs supporting them. They have consistency in coaching and a program that they’ve built.
Splitting soccer is the stupidest thing any coach in our association could support. You might have 3 more trophies in your case in the next 5 years, but does it mean anything? You think Central Lafouche wants to split their district and get St. Amant out so they can win a few more district championships?
Me, I’m looking forward to the idea that Vandebilt will be in our district next year. I want to beat (and learn from) the best and everyday at practice I told my players to compete and compete at the highest level.
The split is a joke. Change the rules, make it harder for private schools to take players out of attendance zones, put a 1.25 multiplier on their attendance numbers, but don’t kill the sport just cause you think you deserve a couple more trophies. Even if you added new rules, something tells me those 5-6 programs that have dominated the last 10+ years are still going to find their way to the top.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 15, 2019 6:55:06 GMT -6
^ or better yet make every school a school of choice. 7th/8th grade pick wherever you want to go and then if you transfer forfiet two years of varsity eligibility. Give public schools the same “advantage” as private schools.
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Post by DocT on Feb 15, 2019 6:58:07 GMT -6
Since 2002 (as far back as LHSAA archive goes): Division I finals appearances: Jesuit 11 St Paul’s 9 Division IIfinals appearances: Vandebilt 9 St. Louis 10 ^this gets a little wonky because of the switch from three divisions to four but you get my point. Division III finals appearances: Newman 6 Why don’t we just split these five schools? Is it an issue you have with select schools having an advantage or just these schools? The idea that a split would help Louisiana soccer or is good for the kids is baffling. Programs would die. A few programs have dominated the state the last 15 years and its our job as coaches to figure out how to beat them, not run away because it’s just so sad that we can’t seem to win. Also, the club soccer thing is a great point until you look at some of the schools dominating the divisions: St. Paul’s/Jesuit/Newman: LA Fire/MSC - makes sense two of the biggest clubs in the state Vandebilt/St. Louis don’t have huge clubs supporting them. They have consistency in coaching and a program that they’ve built. Splitting soccer is the stupidest thing any coach in our association could support. You might have 3 more trophies in your case in the next 5 years, but does it mean anything? You think Central Lafouche wants to split their district and get St. Amant out so they can win a few more district championships? Me, I’m looking forward to the idea that Vandebilt will be in our district next year. I want to beat (and learn from) the best and everyday at practice I told my players to compete and compete at the highest level. The split is a joke. Change the rules, make it harder for private schools to take players out of attendance zones, put a 1.25 multiplier on their attendance numbers, but don’t kill the sport just cause you think you deserve a couple more trophies. Even if you added new rules, something tells me those 5-6 programs that have dominated the last 10+ years are still going to find their way to the top. Well said Coach, well said!
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 15, 2019 7:21:38 GMT -6
Remove one "bully" and another will just take their place.
Get better and stronger and there is no one to bully.
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Post by kahnman on Feb 15, 2019 7:28:41 GMT -6
^ or better yet make every school a school of choice. 7th/8th grade pick wherever you want to go and then if you transfer forfiet two years of varsity eligibility. Give public schools the same “advantage” as private schools. Any time this is suggested on this board the private school supporters claim ( and I agree with them) that they would form thier own association if forced to abide by the rules the public schools have to. They “would not be able to compete” For the record I agree a split is terrible, it will kill some programs BUT what we have now is not working for everyone either and is on its way to killing programs itself. It is only a matter of time until the little brother whom always has to be in the middle and never gets the ball, never comes back again. I can tell you definitively there are at least 2 coaches, whom have been coaching high school soccer in La for almost 20 years each at public schools, that are not coming back next year and the disparity between public and private schools is a factor in both. You say splitting will cause all programs to suffer and people leave the game? Not splitting already has.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 15, 2019 7:47:06 GMT -6
Wait wait wait. We are killing programs with the current system? So all of the new programs that have popped up in the state in the last 7-10 years that got the whole coach’s association trying to do a 32 team playoff are make believe? Or the fact that it’s generally considered the level of soccer in the state has improved in the last 10 years throughout the state is a lie?
You can’t have it both ways. The current system is doing nothing to kill small programs. Again, 5-7 schools have dominated the last 15 years. I’m at at select school. We have 3/11 of our starters that play full-time club soccer and one of them is an 8th grader. Being a select school doesn’t automatically plop 8 LPDL players in your program.
Every time I get into a discussion with someone who is pro-split the goalpost constantly gets moved back. Nothing will ever be good enough. Why wouldn’t multiplying their enrollment by 1.25 be a solution? Take Beau Chene for example. Say you multiplied every private schools enrollment to take into account the advantage they have because of lack of attendance zone. Well now they’re playing Vandebilt or St. Louis in the semifinals instead of Holy Cross. Would that make them happy if they still ended up losing? No it still wouldn’t be “fair”.
What started the split in football was Curtis and Evangel beating the hell out of 2A schools for years because they recruited like crazy. You know why they didn’t move up to 5A? It wasn’t cause they didn’t want to. The PUBLIC SCHOOLS in 5A voted to keep them down. They didn’t want to have to compete against them.
No one will be happy until they get a nice little trophy of their own so they never have to compete and can say “look how many games I won” it’s ridiculous.
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Post by bossierfutbol on Feb 15, 2019 8:13:15 GMT -6
Wait wait wait. We are killing programs with the current system? So all of the new programs that have popped up in the state in the last 7-10 years that got the whole coach’s association trying to do a 32 team playoff are make believe? Or the fact that it’s generally considered the level of soccer in the state has improved in the last 10 years throughout the state is a lie? You can’t have it both ways. The current system is doing nothing to kill small programs. Again, 5-7 schools have dominated the last 15 years. I’m at at select school. We have 3/11 of our starters that play full-time club soccer and one of them is an 8th grader. Being a select school doesn’t automatically plop 8 LPDL players in your program. Every time I get into a discussion with someone who is pro-split the goalpost constantly gets moved back. Nothing will ever be good enough. Why wouldn’t multiplying their enrollment by 1.25 be a solution? Take Beau Chene for example. Say you multiplied every private schools enrollment to take into account the advantage they have because of lack of attendance zone. Well now they’re playing Vandebilt or St. Louis in the semifinals instead of Holy Cross. Would that make them happy if they still ended up losing? No it still wouldn’t be “fair”. What started the split in football was Curtis and Evangel beating the hell out of 2A schools for years because they recruited like crazy. You know why they didn’t move up to 5A? It wasn’t cause they didn’t want to. The PUBLIC SCHOOLS in 5A voted to keep them down. They didn’t want to have to compete against them. No one will be happy until they get a nice little trophy of their own so they never have to compete and can say “look how many games I won” it’s ridiculous. 👏👏👏
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 15, 2019 8:29:26 GMT -6
I'll just go ahead and throw this out there
I think a fair compromise would be a promotion/relegation system
IMO, it would be fairly easy to do. May take a couple hours or a day or two to get down with redistricting and all. Do it every two years based on a teams FINAL two PR, not their finish in state tournament- upsets do happen after all. Move them up or down based off the cut off line for each division (32 team, 40 teams, etc) district them up, and play.
This type of system would eventually "level the playing field" and work things out. IMO, there are teams in D3 and D4 that can compete with D1 and D2 teams. There are teams in D1 that struggle against their D1 opponents but have really good and entertaining matches against D3 or D4 teams.
Unpopular opinion here- I know some have mentioned the public schools stepping up to compete with the private school-"to be the best you got to beat the best" right?- why not the same mind set for the smaller private schools against the bigger ones?
I know, I know, they have a bigger enrollment than us, etc.. I believe in most cases this isn't the case when it comes to a school having soccer players or not. Take Thibodaux High School for example.. We have a student body of 1300-1400 students.. according to that logic we should be one of the best teams in our division. but we are not. we struggle each year to get a team together.. we may get 25-30 students that tryout.. many of which usually have not played before.. while other schools-big and small- just get soccer players. sometimes with JV teams bigger than most other school varsity teams. Is it fair that we have to play EA, St. Amant, or Dutchtown just because we have similar school enrollment size? No. There are schools with 800, 500 student enrollment that can compete better against them than we can.
My point- school enrollment sizes do not determine if you have a good soccer program or not.
So why not use a promotion/relegation system to get the best teams in D1- regardless of school size.
and help the teams that aren't big soccer schools get good competitive games in to help build there program.
I don't know about ya'll but I rather play good competitive games than get 8-0 just because we are a certain school size.
just my thoughts and opinions.
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Post by Young gun on Feb 15, 2019 9:20:38 GMT -6
I like the promotion/relegation system. That should make the playing field even. St Pauls or Jesuit have won state in D1 the last 11 years. Breaking things up will not change that but rather pull out some really good public schools and make it easier. Same can be said for the lower divisions. In order to get soccer players enrolled in school they have to be soccer players before they go to high school. Club is not the only answer and unfortunately can be a $$ grab (I get it. it is a business). It is a good answer for the larger markets, but not the only answer there either. It really starts with good coaches willing to sacrifice time because they love coaching kids at a younger age. To use an analogy of a different sport, Jesuit was dominating in Lacrosse (may still be), but they had a large feeder school that had a Lacrosse team. In BR kids were not starting Lacrosse until high school. So what happened? They started a team at a young age to teach them how to play and give them an interest in the sport. Another example, in BR there was a Catholic and St Joseph feeder school with a great cross country team because of a coach. This middle school would have over 80 kids running cross country. These kids are now in high school and who dominates cross country and will for the next few years - Catholic and St. Joes. This is a generalization so please do not take it the wrong way, but there are many public schools that are improving with a higher Hispanic population. Why? Because while a lot of kids play baseball, basketball and football for fun in the neighborhood a lot of the Hispanic population is playing soccer. My point is that it starts at a young age and having the support at this age is what makes a difference. Club is one answer, but not the only.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 15, 2019 9:20:47 GMT -6
I'll just go ahead and throw this out there I think a fair compromise would be a promotion/relegation system IMO, it would be fairly easy to do. May take a couple hours or a day or two to get down with redistricting and all. Do it every two years based on a teams FINAL two PR, not their finish in state tournament- upsets do happen after all. Move them up or down based off the cut off line for each division (32 team, 40 teams, etc) district them up, and play. This type of system would eventually "level the playing field" and work things out. IMO, there are teams in D3 and D4 that can compete with D1 and D2 teams. There are teams in D1 that struggle against their D1 opponents but have really good and entertaining matches against D3 or D4 teams. Unpopular opinion here- I know some have mentioned the public schools stepping up to compete with the private school-"to be the best you got to beat the best" right?- why not the same mind set for the smaller private schools against the bigger ones? I know, I know, they have a bigger enrollment than us, etc.. I believe in most cases this isn't the case when it comes to a school having soccer players or not. Take Thibodaux High School for example.. We have a student body of 1300-1400 students.. according to that logic we should be one of the best teams in our division. but we are not. we struggle each year to get a team together.. we may get 25-30 students that tryout.. many of which usually have not played before.. while other schools-big and small- just get soccer players. sometimes with JV teams bigger than most other school varsity teams. Is it fair that we have to play EA, St. Amant, or Dutchtown just because we have similar school enrollment size? No. There are schools with 800, 500 student enrollment that can compete better against them than we can. My point- school enrollment sizes do not determine if you have a good soccer program or not. So why not use a promotion/relegation system to get the best teams in D1- regardless of school size. and help the teams that aren't big soccer schools get good competitive games in to help build there program. I don't know about ya'll but I rather play good competitive games than get 8-0 just because we are a certain school size. just my thoughts and opinions. Love the idea of promotion and relegation.
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Post by kahnman on Feb 15, 2019 9:23:51 GMT -6
First of all, I have already said I am against a split. I don’t think anybody wins in that situation, and the level of play will not get better in my opinion. Secondly, I don’t agree the level of play throughout the state has gotten better. I think more teams are playing, and that is a good thing, but more teams playing at a higher level isn’t true in my opinion. Third, I didn’t say smaller teams are being killed, if I eluded to that, I am sorry. The coaches I am referring to are at large established schools and programs. 1 of the programs has been to 4 state championship games. I also know of a 3rd program at a 5A school that hasn’t committed to a program again next year yet. To think the current set up is meeting the needs of a majority of the state is way off in my opinion. Finally, all this is simply my opinion. You certainly have yours, and they will be different. These are just my observations, do with them what you wish.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 15, 2019 9:32:16 GMT -6
I'll just go ahead and throw this out there I think a fair compromise would be a promotion/relegation system IMO, it would be fairly easy to do. May take a couple hours or a day or two to get down with redistricting and all. Do it every two years based on a teams FINAL two PR, not their finish in state tournament- upsets do happen after all. Move them up or down based off the cut off line for each division (32 team, 40 teams, etc) district them up, and play. This type of system would eventually "level the playing field" and work things out. IMO, there are teams in D3 and D4 that can compete with D1 and D2 teams. There are teams in D1 that struggle against their D1 opponents but have really good and entertaining matches against D3 or D4 teams. Unpopular opinion here- I know some have mentioned the public schools stepping up to compete with the private school-"to be the best you got to beat the best" right?- why not the same mind set for the smaller private schools against the bigger ones? I know, I know, they have a bigger enrollment than us, etc.. I believe in most cases this isn't the case when it comes to a school having soccer players or not. Take Thibodaux High School for example.. We have a student body of 1300-1400 students.. according to that logic we should be one of the best teams in our division. but we are not. we struggle each year to get a team together.. we may get 25-30 students that tryout.. many of which usually have not played before.. while other schools-big and small- just get soccer players. sometimes with JV teams bigger than most other school varsity teams. Is it fair that we have to play EA, St. Amant, or Dutchtown just because we have similar school enrollment size? No. There are schools with 800, 500 student enrollment that can compete better against them than we can. My point- school enrollment sizes do not determine if you have a good soccer program or not. So why not use a promotion/relegation system to get the best teams in D1- regardless of school size. and help the teams that aren't big soccer schools get good competitive games in to help build there program. I don't know about ya'll but I rather play good competitive games than get 8-0 just because we are a certain school size. just my thoughts and opinions. Love the idea of promotion and relegation. I really believe this can help fix some of the problems mentioned while also helping to grow soccer in our state. and it could either be a certain percentage that get promoted or relegated or just set number of teams..
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Post by Young gun on Feb 15, 2019 9:49:20 GMT -6
You have to add Uhigh to the Evangel/Curtis football conversation. DO you think a school of 50 boys per grade would have that many college signees without recruiting. I understand that they have made some changes so it does not happen in the future.
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