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Post by drogba on Feb 15, 2019 9:50:21 GMT -6
Love the idea of promotion and relegation. I really believe this can help fix some of the problems mentioned while also helping to grow soccer in our state. and it could either be a certain percentage that get promoted or relegated or just set number of teams.. The promotion relegation thing would be fun. It would have to be a set number to keep the divisions equal in numbers or close to it. The fun part is I guarantee the people asking for split the good non select that would also have to move up would be completely against it. We would see tanking like in the NBA it would be an absolute riot to watch. I would love to see this proposed and see how that vote goes and watch exactly who votes up and down on that. I think you would find a lot of the people who want a split and it is all about the level of competition would not want that. You don't get that trophy that way.
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Post by drogba on Feb 15, 2019 9:55:12 GMT -6
Love the idea of promotion and relegation. I really believe this can help fix some of the problems mentioned while also helping to grow soccer in our state. and it could either be a certain percentage that get promoted or relegated or just set number of teams.. You do realize though after like 4 years every good team in the state would be D1 and the rest of the divisions would be pretty much meaningless. You would have after that like 10 really good D1 teams drop down into D2 every other year and one would win. Then they would all move back up and that D2 group that moved up would have no chance of making the playoffs in D1. Not sure that is going to grow soccer. But again would be fun to watch the accident.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 15, 2019 10:09:34 GMT -6
I really believe this can help fix some of the problems mentioned while also helping to grow soccer in our state. and it could either be a certain percentage that get promoted or relegated or just set number of teams.. You do realize though after like 4 years every good team in the state would be D1 and the rest of the divisions would be pretty much meaningless. You would have after that like 10 really good D1 teams drop down into D2 every other year and one would win. Then they would all move back up and that D2 group that moved up would have no chance of making the playoffs in D1. Not sure that is going to grow soccer. But again would be fun to watch the accident. good points.. I don't think the other divisions would be "meaningless." I think each team would be trying to make their divisions playoff and hopefully win it. now we complain about the same teams winning it too much, if we split, the same thing is more than likely going to happen. if we do a promotion/relegation, once again, it will happen. each system has their flaws, nothing will be perfect. I just believe more competitive games at each level is better for soccer than not.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 15, 2019 10:33:55 GMT -6
You do realize though after like 4 years every good team in the state would be D1 and the rest of the divisions would be pretty much meaningless. You would have after that like 10 really good D1 teams drop down into D2 every other year and one would win. Then they would all move back up and that D2 group that moved up would have no chance of making the playoffs in D1. Not sure that is going to grow soccer. But again would be fun to watch the accident. good points.. I don't think the other divisions would be "meaningless." I think each team would be trying to make their divisions playoff and hopefully win it. now we complain about the same teams winning it too much, if we split, the same thing is more than likely going to happen. if we do a promotion/relegation, once again, it will happen. each system has their flaws, nothing will be perfect. I just believe more competitive games at each level is better for soccer than not. What do you think about signing up for a tournament such as Carencro or St Michaels Holiday Cup? You would see more teams from other areas that would be some pretty competitive, level matchups with your team.
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Post by loJic on Feb 15, 2019 10:37:26 GMT -6
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Post by firebruin on Feb 15, 2019 10:51:58 GMT -6
Everyone has the same arguments in club soccer too so I find all of this amusing.
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Post by carl007 on Feb 15, 2019 10:51:58 GMT -6
There have been some great ideas on this thread, so I decided to combine a couple of them. 1 State champion………(To be the best you have to beat the best.) I see that argument all the time. Seed everyone in the state using our PR rankings. Seed 1-32 have them play for the state championship. Seed 33-64 and have them play for The State Invitational. If you want more teams in the playoff just create another tournament.
Promotion/Relegation This could take the place of districts. Divide the state into regions. From there you could divide that region into group A and Group B and have a promotion/ relegation system for that region. Could be more just depending on the number of teams in that region. All the best arguments….I know enrollment size, can’t compete they have more club players and etc… but to be the best you beat the best.
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Post by firebruin on Feb 15, 2019 10:52:52 GMT -6
Regions.... Eww....
I haven't been a fan of regional playoffs since I was the bowling coach and had the #7 team in the state. My team couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs because we had the #1, #2, #3, #4, and #6 teams in the state in my district playoffs.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 15, 2019 11:12:58 GMT -6
good points.. I don't think the other divisions would be "meaningless." I think each team would be trying to make their divisions playoff and hopefully win it. now we complain about the same teams winning it too much, if we split, the same thing is more than likely going to happen. if we do a promotion/relegation, once again, it will happen. each system has their flaws, nothing will be perfect. I just believe more competitive games at each level is better for soccer than not. What do you think about signing up for a tournament such as Carencro or St Michaels Holiday Cup? You would see more teams from other areas that would be some pretty competitive, level matchups with your team. We have been in tournaments before.. including this year.. but I mean it helps but not to the overall picture I mentioned promotion/relegation only as a possible compromise for everyone instead of a complete split..
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Post by sonics3 on Feb 15, 2019 12:34:05 GMT -6
😂. I hope we go 16 champions get your trophy style and make everyone happy. The board will be a different fun and won’t need power ratings Heck actually may kill the board. The tourney s as well the selects will not play at non select school tournaments also won’t need PR every team will make playoffs. I’m curious to why you think of a playoff split happens as in football why you insist that the private schools won’t play regular season games and/or tournament games against public schools? Not that I’m for or against a split. Seems the travel cost to play only private school teams would not be feasible. We still share districts with private schools in football now. Why would Soccer be any different? The notion of soccer being the sport holding private schools in the LHSAA is a bit far fetched. Personally, I love that in order to reach the final we have to beat a storied program like Jesuit and to win it all we would likely have to beat the dynasty St Paul’s. Let’s face it. Public and private operate under different sets of rules in all sports. Recruiting does happen (while I have no proof and really don’t think it does in soccer). Look at the Brother Martin punishments for recruiting compared to what was handed down to Hahnville in football. When everyone plays by the same rules people will stop complaining. The driving force behind the dynasty programs in soccer is simple. More year round club players.
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Post by drogba on Feb 15, 2019 12:40:18 GMT -6
😂. I hope we go 16 champions get your trophy style and make everyone happy. The board will be a different fun and won’t need power ratings Heck actually may kill the board. The tourney s as well the selects will not play at non select school tournaments also won’t need PR every team will make playoffs. I’m curious to why you think of a playoff split happens as in football why you insist that the private schools won’t play regular season games and/or tournament games against public schools? Not that I’m for or against a split. Seems the travel cost to play only private school teams would not be feasible. We still share districts with private schools in football now. Why would Soccer be any different? The notion of soccer being the sport holding private schools in the LHSAA is a bit far fetched. Personally, I love that in order to reach the final we have to beat a storied program like Jesuit and to win it all we would likely have to beat the dynasty St Paul’s. Let’s face it. Public and private operate under different sets of rules in all sports. Recruiting does happen (while I have no proof and really don’t think it does in soccer). Look at the Brother Martin punishments for recruiting compared to what was handed down to Hahnville in football. When everyone plays by the same rules people will stop complaining. The driving force behind the dynasty programs in soccer is simple. More year round club players. Good question Sonic what I hear is that a few non split still working but much like you saw recently with select moving out of dome for football once everything is split absolutely no reason to stay in the lhsaa any longer. That is when it will become punitive. The select schools are just going to break and just play select. Get the media coverage own the advertising etc. It is so split already I believe just a matter of time. But I think part of it when select just walks away will be just that. It will be incredibly interesting not sure who wins that in the end. I know what soccer I am going to want to watch. But that is just me.
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Post by sonics3 on Feb 15, 2019 12:41:42 GMT -6
I’m curious to why you think of a playoff split happens as in football why you insist that the private schools won’t play regular season games and/or tournament games against public schools? Not that I’m for or against a split. Seems the travel cost to play only private school teams would not be feasible. We still share districts with private schools in football now. Why would Soccer be any different? The notion of soccer being the sport holding private schools in the LHSAA is a bit far fetched. Personally, I love that in order to reach the final we have to beat a storied program like Jesuit and to win it all we would likely have to beat the dynasty St Paul’s. Let’s face it. Public and private operate under different sets of rules in all sports. Recruiting does happen (while I have no proof and really don’t think it does in soccer). Look at the Brother Martin punishments for recruiting compared to what was handed down to Hahnville in football. When everyone plays by the same rules people will stop complaining. The driving force behind the dynasty programs in soccer is simple. More year round club players. Good question Sonic what I hear is that a few non split still working but much like you saw recently with select moving out of dome for football once everything is split absolutely no reason to stay in the lhsaa any longer. That is when it will become punitive. The select schools are just going to break and just play select. Get the media coverage own the advertising etc. It is so split already I believe just a matter of time. But I think part of it when select just walks away will be just that. It will be incredibly interesting not sure who wins that in the end. I know what soccer I am going to want to watch. But that is just me. Fair enough.
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Post by beauchenecoach on Feb 15, 2019 13:13:27 GMT -6
While I’m not going to get specific and think both sides make passionate arguments... and I also agree that select division would be more like the real champs at first, the whole point of the split is the inability to have schools start with the same opportunities and rules. This has never been fixed and if anything, the rules have changed to be more in favor of select schools than in the past. No other level of soccer (college or pro) starts all their teams in a specific league or division under different sets of guideline sand rules and access to players. No where does that happen. Do you think it’s just great coaching as to why only select schools win in soccer or volleyball? Honestly it’s like EPL teams compared to MLS teams st some point... or I guess I should FA championship teams. When they meet in the FA cup, 99% of the time, the EPL top dogs will win the tie. Caus e1 team starts with different sets of rules. But occasionally one of the championship league teams can pull upsets. But do they ever win? Very very very rarely. Why? Different sets of rules, access, availability and all. Like I said for years... I’ve always been against split. But it’s going to happen people and we just need to do it right.
Drogba, that talk of total split is always there. If it happens, it won’t be the whole lhsaa allotment of private schools. It will be the bigger names ones in the south, but that’s why it has t happened yet. Some, quite a few, smaller private schools are happy being split. It has helped their programs as well. Plus besides the NOLA, BR and Laffy area, all othe rselect schools would spend a fortune in traveling if they didn’t play non select schools. I’m sure a few would be able to do it without issue... but not every private school is financially set like the big guys.
It’s a sad situation but honestly, this has been coming and the reason is a different set of standards affect the situation that aren’t being addressed and if anything has only gotten worse then more the play with the rules.
The Best idea is all kids choose wherever regardless of zone like private schools. Always Eligible on any first choice. Transfer? Ineligible. If it’s a financials reason or loss of wages or earnings reason for a transfer... hardship them to be eligible. But no other reason except a legitimate change of residence would be considered. That would be a huge first step. Rules would be same and access, more importantly Would be same. Wouldn’t solve the difference in club players and money issues with south Louisiana private vs public, but it would make the rules even for player access. That’s the main issue at hand.
And no other person on this board represents me (BC Fan), so I just gave my point of view and what is being said behind the scenes for soccer. This isn’t about every one get a trophy like many of you are making it to be. Honestly, there pro would only be 1 more trophy given out. It’s just grouping the teams for playoffs in a way that puts the teams who are most similar and have the same starting access to players... all in the same bracket for a championship. What is so snowflake about that? Is it too much to ask that the same teams with same access and starting rules play for the same championship and those who have better access and advantages to get more access do the same? I’m not for a split per say. But I am for a even playing field from the start for teams to be in divisions of equal playing field.
Hopefully I didn’t make any of private school coaching friends upset with this as I’m just trying to write down what I think is the main issue and reason for looking at this.
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Post by beauchenecoach on Feb 15, 2019 13:18:10 GMT -6
And of course every public non select school coach and team wants to be the first one to win a championship since 2006 vs select teams and not a split. Absolutely that would mean a lot to any public school to overcome the odds and finally do it.
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Post by socceranyone on Feb 15, 2019 17:22:07 GMT -6
And of course every public non select school coach and team wants to be the first one to win a championship since 2006 vs select teams and not a split. Absolutely that would mean a lot to any public school to overcome the odds and finally do it. If the split happens it will be a hollow championship
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Post by noonediesinsoccer on Feb 15, 2019 17:42:27 GMT -6
And of course every public non select school coach and team wants to be the first one to win a championship since 2006 vs select teams and not a split. Absolutely that would mean a lot to any public school to overcome the odds and finally do it. If the split happens it will be a hollow championship That's true. At least now when you slide up to a chick at the bar at Fred's and tell her you won the LA State High School Soccer Championship, the real one, not that pretend one where you have play by the same rules, you're guaranteed to win again.
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Post by AgSurfer on Feb 15, 2019 17:46:25 GMT -6
here's a real look at domination by private schools, the sport of wrestling and swimming. Headline from 2017: Jesuit Wins 38th Swimming Title, First Since 2012. In Div I wrestling there have been 3 Public school champions (EJ 1966, EJ 1978 and Bonnabel tri-champs 1988) since 1945.
Both sports are niche sports much like soccer, pay to play. Anytime this is the norm, the kids whose parents afford them the opportunity will usually gravitate to a winning program. Are there anomalies, yes, but they are far from the usual. In wrestling there are always a spattering of finalists and champions from public schools, but team wise Jesuit (22 championships) and BM (19 championships) have controlled the arena since 1970. In swimming, Jesuit's 39 state championships leaves everyone on the outside looking in. This is domination on a different level, yet no one decries the disparity as a reason to split.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 15, 2019 18:29:53 GMT -6
here's a real look at domination by private schools, the sport of wrestling and swimming. Headline from 2017: Jesuit Wins 38th Swimming Title, First Since 2012. In Div I wrestling there have been 3 Public school champions (EJ 1966, EJ 1978 and Bonnabel tri-champs 1988) since 1945. Both sports are niche sports much like soccer, pay to play. Anytime this is the norm, the kids whose parents afford them the opportunity will usually gravitate to a winning program. Are there anomalies, yes, but they are far from the usual. In wrestling there are always a spattering of finalists and champions from public schools, but team wise Jesuit (22 championships) and BM (19 championships) have controlled the arena since 1970. In swimming, Jesuit's 39 state championships leaves everyone on the outside looking in. This is domination on a different level, yet no one decries the disparity as a reason to split. you could prob add cross country to that list of sports as well
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Post by firebruin on Feb 15, 2019 18:52:47 GMT -6
And bowling.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 15, 2019 18:54:26 GMT -6
here's a real look at domination by private schools, the sport of wrestling and swimming. Headline from 2017: Jesuit Wins 38th Swimming Title, First Since 2012. In Div I wrestling there have been 3 Public school champions (EJ 1966, EJ 1978 and Bonnabel tri-champs 1988) since 1945. Both sports are niche sports much like soccer, pay to play. Anytime this is the norm, the kids whose parents afford them the opportunity will usually gravitate to a winning program. Are there anomalies, yes, but they are far from the usual. In wrestling there are always a spattering of finalists and champions from public schools, but team wise Jesuit (22 championships) and BM (19 championships) have controlled the arena since 1970. In swimming, Jesuit's 39 state championships leaves everyone on the outside looking in. This is domination on a different level, yet no one decries the disparity as a reason to split. no split is a good split. Keep the gators in the big boy league. Football our kids favorite game is EA and Catholic. Basketball same thing add in Dutchtown. Soccer same 3. I think a split is a cop out and a woe is me mentality. Yuck!
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