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Post by usasoccerboy on Feb 3, 2005 20:26:16 GMT -6
In the attack phase, what are the 3 methods a supporting player can involve himself in to support his teammate with the ball to penetrate an opposing defense?
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Post by coach4365 on Feb 3, 2005 22:40:27 GMT -6
I'm sure the two aforementioned coaches are great coaches if you consider their win/loss records and how fantastic their teams are. However, with no disrespect meant toward these two gentlemen, I'm not impressed. Admittedly, I do not know either of them or much about them. Like I said, their ability is obvious as demonstated by the success of their teams. But if your team is loaded from end-to-end with premier players you should be winning. If your bench has more talent than most teams starters you should be winning. If every player on your team eats, sleeps, and sh##s soccer year round with the dedication of premier players, you should be winning. If your team .... well you get the message. What impresses me is a coach who can take a team full of non-premier players, players who play football or other sports and don't even play soccer away from school, players who love the sport but could never afford to play premier, and still be truly competitive (even if they lose) with the all-premier teams. Again, cudos to Jesuit and St.Martin's coaches and teams. Let's just not forget about the effort of many other coaches who mold great pottery out of left over clay. You are so dead on! What impact these two respectable, qualified gentleman coaches would have on a team like St. Augustine? I have a feeling they probably would not take those jobs, just a hunch. There is more than one A licensed coach in the state coaching HS. But there is probably more E and non-license coaches out there than there are D, C, B, and A's. 1- You could have a new program or existing with some new players (new to the game) sprinkled with rec players with an unqualified coach and this team will probably have a hard time getting a win. 2- You could have a new program or existing with some new players sprinkled with rec players with a qualified coach and this team will probably end with a 25% winning pct. 3- You could have a program with all rec players with an unqualified coach and this team will probably end with a 40% winning pct. 4- You could have a new program or existing with all rec players with a qualified coach and this team will probably end with a 50% winning pct. 5- You could have a program with rec players sprinkled with two or three premier players coupled with a qualified coach and you could up the winning % to 75. (premier player parents will not allow an unqualified coach to get on with this program or any of the few mentioned below in 6 and 7, although there may be one exception to this rule in 5 only) 6- Couple premier players with a few rec players and qualified coaching and you get above 80%. 7- Throw in nothing but premier players and a qualified coach and you winning % is between 90% to 100. Qualified coaches are defined in these paragraphs as a person holding D-A licensing. By the way, I know at least one A coach in a new program such as mentioned in one, guess his record. Also know of at least a B or C coaching a team like mentioned above in 5, guess what their record are? USASOCCERBOY -START ANOTHER THREAD AND CALL IT SOCCER QUIZZES. PLEASE STAY ON THE ISSUE AT HAND. PUTMEINCOACH -YOU CRACK ME UP!!
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Post by usasoccerboy on Feb 4, 2005 0:55:54 GMT -6
I don't think there are more E coaches than D coaches. Most coaches get the D, and that is it. Few go on to their C liscense since it cost about $1,000 to get one and 10 days off of work, so most get the D, and that is it. As for the E, a coach that is going to get the E will go and get the D. I would agree that most coaches are non liscensed since principles and administrators still think that if you are foreign, then you must know how to coach. I see that in my area way too much. One, who has won 3 state championships has his D, and that is it.
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Post by SCRDAD on Feb 4, 2005 12:37:36 GMT -6
An interesting game for this topic would be yesterday's Country Day (CD) - Opelousas Catholic (OC) game. Going in, all were predicting an OC win based on their superior record and higher ranking. CD's coaches are club coaches for Carrollton Soccer Association. I know nothing about OC's coaches. CD was able to pull off a 1-0 win, a significant upset. Knowing the quality of CD's coaches, I suspect they contributed to the win in such a close contest.
I agree with earlier posts that the quality of the players primarily determines a team's success in terms of wins. However, I believe that a quality coach (one who knows and understands his or her players' abilities and the game) can make a difference in a close game. The converse is also true.
Good luck to all in the playoffs.
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Post by L4S on Feb 4, 2005 13:28:34 GMT -6
I thought it was Rest too, but my coaches manual has it as Remove the player from the game, but I still think the R is better known as REST. Lets face it, Rest is the same as REMOVE THE PLAYER FROM THE GAME, so good job. I will think of some more tomorrow. Good Night. RICE is Rest Ice Compression & Elevation. Back in the day it was simply ice...now they are adding more letters. PRICER P - protect R - rest I - ice C - compression E - elevation R - remove from activity
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Post by usasoccerboy on Feb 4, 2005 15:45:48 GMT -6
THE USSF ALWAYS DOES THIS. FIRST THERE WERE 5 PRINCIPLES OF ATTACK, AND NOW I THINK THERE IS LIKE 9.
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Post by coach4365 on Feb 4, 2005 23:09:20 GMT -6
I don't think there are more E coaches than D coaches. Most coaches get the D, and that is it. Few go on to their C liscense since it cost about $1,000 to get one and 10 days off of work, so most get the D, and that is it. As for the E, a coach that is going to get the E will go and get the D. I would agree that most coaches are non liscensed since principles and administrators still think that if you are foreign, then you must know how to coach. I see that in my area way too much. One, who has won 3 state championships has his D, and that is it. usscoc.... Lay off foreign coaches, just b/c they do not have a license does not mean they do not know to coach. I know one Mexican coaching in the south south that trains several teams that could not pass a Cert (can't say which) but if you play any of the teams he trains, those teams can play with anybody and win. The folks that include those foreign guys in their programs are at fault (because of shortage of good coaches forever until now day), not the ones that want to be coaches. Ask average Joe if he wants to coach a any HS soccer program and they would take it immediately, it is not just the foreign guys, is anybody. I take that you are at least a D license and you have learn what US Soccer has structured for everysingle coach to learn = the same thing. Everybody learns the same thing at each individual level. I would venture and say that you probably do not like foreign coaches because you don't really know what they know, but you do know what every single D license holder knows. But it all comes down to experience, I coach with a D license guy, that has played all his life, coach for half his life (over 20 years) and every single practice I helped with, I have learned something new or a new way to convey something that I already knew. PHT is awesome. I encourage everyone to get cert'd. The u.s. has probably more resources to learn how to teach the game than any other country in the world. Which brings me to my last point, you don't have to be licensed to be a good coach, if you are smart (know what you are looking for and know how to find it), a good communicator, know the game and can sorround yourself with a good group of kids, you can be a succesful coach (it just makes you wonder how much better he would be if he went through the D or above licenses). By the way, this D license coach that has won three state championships, how many premier players does he average on his teams?
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Post by Rainbowcycle on Feb 5, 2005 4:50:19 GMT -6
The world spins and technology and medicine progress at a faster pace every day...that it is not even worth buying a book, or a computer by the same token: as computer programs evolve so quickly... e, d, c ?! Every coach should learn their A, B, C's, if they want to challenge the world of soccer on young athletes around them; but I don't know after all, if we 're talking about the same pieces of paper!? I am sorry to pop your bubble...my friends : it is correct that USSF and NSCAA licensing courses have a lot to offer...; but not so much from their lectures and field workouts, as from the intermingling of high level coaches' talk around a table at night in a cosy pub, while having a healthy foreign drink... That's where most of the pertinent learning, while attending those licensing courses, takes place...; when you pick these experienced coaches' brains about their hands on experiences; and when you, yourself share your moments of glory or ... your nemesis' nightmares. The Barry Gorman, the John Bluem, the Jim Lennox, the Shellas Hyndman, the Jay Miller, the Dave Simeone,the Mike Parson, the Jeff Tipping, the John Cassaboon, the Peter Broadley, the Paul Payne, the Hylton Dayes, the Gregg Ashton, the Jim Gallagher, the David Williamson, the Gallimore, the Chris Petrucelli, the "Mutch", the "Timo", the Kerrigan, the Savard, the internationally known psychologist Dan Freigang, the Purgavie, the internationally known nutritionist Kris Clark, the list goes on and on... When you have a chance to speak to or meet during your coaching career, even if only briefly, those coaches, and on top of that national coaches like Anson Dorrance, Bob Gansler, Tony DiCicco... and I probably left out a bunch of other "great ones" who don't have to be particularly notorious to be very efficient teachers of the game and very knowledgeable, you can't but help change your philosophies for the better just by filtering theses icones' genuine enthusiasm for the game. Those are whom you learn your soccer science from, when they share with you their life long experiences dealing with soccer at the colllege, national, or international levels. Most coaches have such big egos, meant in a positive way, that translate into a priceless charisma; that you can have them sharing their deepest secrets about the game exponentially. Diplomas and degrees are merely signs of acceptance by your peers with no other meaning, if it weren't that you have acquired sufficient experience yourself to leave your marks on your professors...as well. Self-made women and self-learned men, will understand what I am saying here... Yes, the world spins at a fast rate: on its own axes in 24 hours and around the sun in twelve months; days and night, spring, summer, fall and winter long... I wish I were an astro-physician at times...to have a better grasp of our immense universe and its black holes; instead I analyze a smaller planet, called a soccer ball which bounces more my way, unless the field is filled with mud puddles... Holes and puddles don't mix too well with soccer as you very well know. At least, with soccer, I get the feeling to have some control over it; even if I am aware, it is only a virtual world! Reality is entirely different, or is it not after all!? Sorry to pop your bubble indeed, because RICE or PRICER or whatever you want to call it is no longer in use, it has become obsolete ten years ago... NOW, if you ask any physical therapist, or sports medicine rehabilitation professional, they'll advocate no rest in a very closely monitored environment; or very little, so as to not atrophy the muscles and so as not to stiffen the ligaments or tendons, making sure there are no obvious tears or broken bones first, that's to say. The newer trend is have a Medic Check it out, Compress, Ice, Elevate, Move on it; Compress, Ice again, Rest and Move on with It... The pain can be lessened with the help of light painkillers that will refrain your body's natural reactions to completely block the traumatized area with critical immobilizing swelling, that will force your rehab to take an unaffordable amount of time...to heal. After a player takes a hard lick, the brain instantanously triggers a protective body immuno-reactive-system, as soon as you pain is recorded. Swelling will folllow immediately, especially when you suffered tears and vessels' damage, which will as a consequence, immediately immobilize your limb....preventing the healing process to start right away. You are then stuck for weeks of rest...when your sport needs you most and when you cannot wait to get back on the pitch. The newer rehab techniques are check with medics for safety, compress, ice, elevate, move it: MCIEM. Sorry to have popped up you bubble...but I don't feel bad, since you just upgraded your older car for a brand new BMW! Not a bad deal after all...! Have a great Mardi Gras and ya'll go out and catch some beads! So long, Rainbowcycle!
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Post by usasoccerboy on Feb 5, 2005 10:44:03 GMT -6
usscoc.... Lay off foreign coaches, just b/c they do not have a license does not mean they do not know to coach. I know one Mexican coaching in the south south that trains several teams that could not pass a Cert (can't say which) but if you play any of the teams he trains, those teams can play with anybody and win. The folks that include those foreign guys in their programs are at fault (because of shortage of good coaches forever until now day), not the ones that want to be coaches. Ask average Joe if he wants to coach a any HS soccer program and they would take it immediately, it is not just the foreign guys, is anybody. I take that you are at least a D license and you have learn what US Soccer has structured for everysingle coach to learn = the same thing. Everybody learns the same thing at each individual level. I would venture and say that you probably do not like foreign coaches because you don't really know what they know, but you do know what every single D license holder knows. But it all comes down to experience, I coach with a D license guy, that has played all his life, coach for half his life (over 20 years) and every single practice I helped with, I have learned something new or a new way to convey something that I already knew. PHT is awesome. I encourage everyone to get cert'd. The u.s. has probably more resources to learn how to teach the game than any other country in the world. Which brings me to my last point, you don't have to be licensed to be a good coach, if you are smart (know what you are looking for and know how to find it), a good communicator, know the game and can sorround yourself with a good group of kids, you can be a succesful coach (it just makes you wonder how much better he would be if he went through the D or above licenses). By the way, this D license coach that has won three state championships, how many premier players does he average on his teams? I don't hate foreign coaches. I do not see how you came to that conclusion. I said, administrators, ADs who know little about the game, sometimes go and hire someone because they have an accent, assuming that they must know the game. I have seen this more than once. Once a french Canadian was given a new team the job, and he stunk. The guy didn't know much about the game, and starting this new program up, he was unable to teach. Now, he is gone and been replaced, and his replacement has never played or coached a game either, but at least he has coached other sports before and takes his job seriously. They still lose, but not by the scores seen before. I have seen other teachers with no experience coaching or playing be given the job. These programs are Division I programs and they have perpetually stunk. Now, they might have a few kids that are ok, but this is the problem with soccer in many parts of the state. Kids are playing, but not under programs that build their skills or develope them from year to year. As for your kids answer, this teams is about %60 premier, but half of them are not really that special. I would say they do well because they play in a lower division. This brings me to another thing that I have spoken of before, but not since last year. The LHSAA system doesn't work. You have poor Division I teams, and then teams who have played for 25 years building their program. So you get 19-0 scores which does nothing for either team. I have always advocated that the LHSAA should scrap the divisional system that is based on school population. This rule, based on baseball and football, does not work for soccer. Instead, there should be a promotional and relegation system of 3 divisions. Teams that succede move up to the top divisions, those that lose 19-0 move down. Because, right now, you have a few teams from each division winning it year in and year out. Why not give theose lesser teams something legitimate to play for instead of making them play Jesuit 2 or 3 times a year. I would love to see the Vandys, STMs, St. Louis, Ben Franklins, St. Martins, play for the title against Jesuit, Brother Martin, Lafayette, etc. Instead, these teams basically play their tourneys, where they get good action, then play a weak district where if they are lucky, have one challenging team to go against, and then wait for the playoffs where the 4 or less teams finally meet up for the lower title. And I have seen years past where I think the Division II champion could take and maybe they were better than the Division I champion. I think the relegation and promotion idea would increase the level of play and be more exciting. But I know this will never happen, because when it comes to soccer, the LHSAA treats it like their other sports.
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Post by coach4365 on Feb 5, 2005 23:44:59 GMT -6
usasoccerboy wrote: "I don't hate foreign coaches. I do not see how you came to that conclusion. I said, administrators, ADs who know little about the game, sometimes go and hire someone because they have an accent, assuming that they must know the game. I have seen this more than once. Once a french Canadian was given a new team the job, and he stunk. The guy didn't know much about the game, and starting this new program up, he was unable to teach. "
My apoligies, I read too much in to it. Here is the reason why: About two years ago I was having lunch during a D license break with a lady that had been in the National team pool. I, a foreign guy, obvious by my accent and dark complected good looks (lol) am sitting there listening to this lady tell me how there is a perception of foreign guys automatically knowing how to coach just because they are from another country (I just sat there and shrug my shoulders). Truth of the matter is, there is a load of foreign coaches in the state as well as the US. Probably more English coaches than any other, and I don't like English coaches because of their arrogance, but I give them due credit. Not completely true, I like one English coach, he is humble and funny as s...
I like you ideas on Promotion/demotion ideas.
Rainbow... What the ,... are you talking about? I breezed through you post, I understood jack!
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Post by Rainbowcycle on Feb 6, 2005 15:22:05 GMT -6
That's because you breezed through it, when you gotta breath it through first, and then give yourself some time to digest the information. Subtle soccer is not always as simple as the British kick and run game, which so many people advocate for its simplicity... So long, Rainbowcycle
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Post by GhostRider88 on Feb 6, 2005 19:25:27 GMT -6
cro spanish not enough for you to ruin? this board too?
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Post by Rainbowcycle on Feb 6, 2005 20:18:10 GMT -6
Something against the Spanish or the French , remember they settled here among the natives well before you?! Besides, nothing will be ruined, if you start contributing too... once you get rid of your "ghosts"... and start making some sense in your posts. Talking about the impact, your coaches have had on you GhostRider88; who do you claim as your greatest mentor...? Don't be shy and let us see some substance coming from you on this thread! So long, Rainbowcycle.
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Post by coachray40 on Feb 6, 2005 23:51:32 GMT -6
usa soccerboy--
I have some observations on you idea of promotion and relegation. I agree that the LHSAA system is flawed. I dont think pro/reg is the answer though. A pro/reg system would be better applied to leagues that had control over the players the could "recruit" to play within their program, and control over the longevity of those players stay at that team. HS is too cyclical, with schools having 1 good year and 2-3 average ones. HS teams that would move up in a pro/reg system would immediately take a pounding the next year once their seniors were gone.
I think the problem is more a matter of numbers. You are correct when you say the same teams are successful year in and year out. The single biggest determining factor of this is enrollment size more than anything else. 13 of the 19 largest schools (Denham Springs is # 16 in enrollment, but no team) in LA that field boys soccer teams made it to the playoffs this year. Of those 13, 9 are still in the playoffs, and 4 of the 6 largest. In 10 out of 16 playoff games, the larger school won, and in 3 of the 6 games where the smaller school won, the difference was 1 goal. The average difference in enrollment between the winners and losers was 625 students--pretty large difference in number of kids. Once we factor in that difference between schools like catholic, Jesuit and Bro Martin that are all boys, and the public schools that are bi-gender, that difference is even more glaring. The minimum enrollment in 5A is 1100 students, but the largest school in 5A--Brother Martin--has over 2800 students. Thats a possible difference of 150%--no to mention the fact of being all boys. There is no other class in LA that has such a large difference in enrollment. LHSAA would do better to either: A) change the enrollment spans in each of the classes to make the spread more even across all of them, or B) create a 6A class for the top 15-20 schools in size in the state(Tommy Henrys plan is starting to sound better all the time)
In the lower classes, there is no surprise that Private/parochial schools dominate,as they can recruit (lets not lie to ourselves to say that schools dont recruit)the highest level athlete to their school. There is also a direct correlation between premier players and their enrollment in private/parochial schools.
Division II is the most indicative of this--three of the more dominant teams are private/parochial: St Thomas More, Loyola, and Vandebilt. Someone will debate this citing Dutchtown, but lets keep in mind that Dutchtown has played the last 2 years in D2 as a 5A school in enrollment. Dutchtown opened in the fall of 2002- a district reclassification year--and did so without a COMPLETE senior class (nonethelesstheir opening enrollment was around 900 students). This kept them in 4A for that last 2 years. They will appropriately move up next year.
Its all about numbers, nothing else.. Lets face it, when you have a bigger pond to do your fishing, the number of bass in your bucket will be higher at the end of the day. The state soccer title in D1 has been won by a top 6 school in enrollment in 7 out of the last 10 years (6 times by one of the top three)
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Post by lhssoccerfan on Feb 7, 2005 0:22:31 GMT -6
Where do you find the time to learn all this stuff Coach? Geezums...I feel so stupid!
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Post by shellshocker on Feb 7, 2005 0:57:13 GMT -6
Coach Ray: one correction - BM has 1400+ boys. LHSAA doubles the nember of students at single sex schools.
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Post by coachray40 on Feb 7, 2005 3:43:03 GMT -6
lhs---To spend a minute not learning idles ones mind for hours. Got the numbers earlier this year when LHSAA was in the redistricting mode. Got to be aware of everything around you shell--As for the doubling, I believe you are right, but its the same difference. Comparatively boys for boys it comes out the same. Still a big disparity.
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Post by freddyyakubu on Feb 7, 2005 5:30:13 GMT -6
Most coaches get the D, and that is it. Few go on to their C liscense since it cost about $1,000 to get one and 10 days off of work, so most get the D, and that is it. When I took the 'C' license it definitely was not that much.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Feb 7, 2005 9:00:28 GMT -6
The initial costs and food costs and all the other stuff like gas and deep heating pain rub from all the playing, as well as Gatorade, everything, is paid by the candidate. It is not easy, especially if you have to travel a long distance to take it.
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Post by Rainbowcycle on Feb 7, 2005 13:58:48 GMT -6
Players have to pay the price, if they want to play at certain levels and win the prizes on top of that...The price can be quite hefty at times, since often they are asked to carry the reluctant coach as well on their tabs and backs. Should the coaches also pay the "price" to win the players' confidence; or should they leave that price burden on the players' shoulders as well? I say, as a coach, you ought to do as you preach: if the players must sacrifice, the coach ought to as well, and thus lead by example Getting a license just shows the players how much YOU respect them as well! So long, Rainbowcycle.
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