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Post by futbolislife on Jan 26, 2009 13:08:43 GMT -6
Coach, no disagreement that this is usually not called. At the ODP regionals recently, we saw this a lot and found that it was not a recognition issue but a positional issue. Referees are generally not seeing it because of where they are located.
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Post by furriner on Jan 26, 2009 13:48:54 GMT -6
my peeve is being chewed out FOR calling this. Players now seem to believe that this is not considered pushing. A wise assessor once told me to watch for it....
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Post by futbolislife on Jan 26, 2009 14:54:42 GMT -6
One of the recognition issues with this foul is that once a player goes up off the ground, it takes so little force to move that player out of position and able to gain an advantage. So to many referees, it looks slight, trivial and inconsequential.
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Post by upper90 on Jan 26, 2009 22:00:22 GMT -6
I'm assuming most of you referee high school. My pet peeves are when referees call ticky tack fouls. The game is meant to be phyiscal, but by no means is it to get out of hand. A referee should control the game as he wants it, let the players know which fouls are to be called and how much he will let the players play.
One of the better referees up north is Eric Mayo, former coach at Centenary College. Referees should watch him, and see how he calls games. He lets the kids play, and doesn't call the little fouls. When you call all the little fouls, then there's a stoppage every minute, and that's not soccer.
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Post by furriner on Jan 27, 2009 9:21:28 GMT -6
A lot depends on the players involved: if they are happy to let the "ticky tack" go when they are the ones being fouled, then, I agree, the game can flow nicely. But, when two players are doing a little pull here and a little push there, but each it kfetching for the call when they are fouled, it can escalate pretty quickly. Usually, a quiet word in the shell-likes settles things.
When there are high level players on each team, things can be easier: they expect to be pulled and pushed and play through it. When there is a miss-match in talent levels, things can get out of hand pretty quickly, though.
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Post by DYNAMOFAN on Jan 28, 2009 12:11:55 GMT -6
I just took over a program and i'm coaching a possession/passing style as opposed to direct and physical style that was played in the past. It becomes difficult to convince players not to revert to the old hacking style when they get hacked and its not called. I suppose if a team has inexperienced players it's not intentional, while others play this way as a tactic to take a team out of their game. I understand that soccer is a contact sport but as a ref if you see a foul call the foul, I don't care if it's my player or the opponent. I think if you say " i'm gonna let that kind of foul go but i'm gonna call this kind of foul" that confuses & frustrates coaches & players.
I guess i'm speaking to ref's here so i'll tell you that our fans don't usually understand the rules. I have no idea what they are thinking most of the time, what they see or what they are complaining about. I have talked to some about how they complain and if it's out of line to stop.
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Post by upper90 on Jan 28, 2009 13:46:05 GMT -6
So are you telling referees to call every bump in the game? It's just like in football: there is holding 99.9999% of the time on every play, but referees don't call it unless it is blatant, because it's part of the game, and it happens. Bumps and pushes happen in soccer. Call the stuff that needs to be called and the stuff that makes the game get out of hand. Just let the boys play.
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Post by DYNAMOFAN on Jan 28, 2009 23:01:22 GMT -6
bumps usually are not fouls & i'm all for letting the boys play as long as it's soccer thats being played. I know it's a contact sport & have no problem with contact but if a foul is committed then call the foul. If it's called early the teams usually adjust and you see a good game.
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Post by futbolislife on Jan 29, 2009 8:02:25 GMT -6
I can understand the frustration in your situation. But a foul is not always a foul. Referees are not supposed to blow the whistling for trifling offenses. So a foul can occur but the effective referee understands the effects and what is trifling. No one wants a game of constant whistles. We want flow and rhythm. But what is trifling in one game is not in another. we all see contact at the international level all the time. Why is it not called? Because at that level, to those players, in that game, they are willing to play through that. Would we allow that at lower levels. Most of the time, the answer is no.
The problems can occur when referees believe they are allowing trifling offenses to occur when in fact the players are getting frustrated with those "fouls". The frustration builds and now it escalates and the referee is sometimes left wondering "what happened?"
I knew a referee in N.O. some time back who was one of the best amateur referees around. This guy could really work the field when it came to adult players at any level. In youth games, he often had troubles because what he was allowing in men's games was blowing up in youth games.
I have heard more than one coach say exactly what you propose. And I wish it were just that easy.
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Post by number3 on Jan 29, 2009 16:23:19 GMT -6
I knew a referee in N.O. some time back who was one of the best amateur referees around. This guy could really work the field when it came to adult players at any level. In youth games, he often had troubles because what he was allowing in men's games was blowing up in youth games. Funny you mention this. I was in the same situation. Men's amateur games were going well for me, but U-16's were giving me trouble time and time again. My mentor knew the level of games I was being assigned and the difference in skill level was profound, and it took his guidance for me to realize that I was allowing too much play at lesser levels. I'm pretty sure this attributes to two recent games I worked. I don't want to tighten up and choke the game, but I don't want to let them kill each other either. Finding the happy medium is more difficult than I can explain.
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Post by DYNAMOFAN on Jan 31, 2009 14:14:21 GMT -6
Futbolislife , I understand what your saying and agree. It may be the difference in what one ref calls trifling and another calls are sometimes different and it becomes frustrating for coaches & players. I have alot of young ones without much experience beyond rec and it makes it tough for me to teach them whats o.k. and what isn't.
And thanks to the ref's wouldn't want your job but thanks for doing it.
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Post by furriner on Feb 4, 2009 11:38:57 GMT -6
Having coaches complain because you are actually up with play and close enough to make calls in the box, even when the calls benefit his /her team. Weird but true.
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Post by furriner on Feb 8, 2009 14:36:37 GMT -6
having players take their own revenge on another player they perceive as having fouled them a couple of times. Especially those that should know better....
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dulac
All-District
Posts: 204
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Post by dulac on Feb 9, 2009 12:44:23 GMT -6
A peeve I have is Assistant Referees (ARs) and 4ths who do not assist. Especially with the fast and physical games we are reffing right now (play offs), to have the center official calling all the fouls committed is a tall order. 4th officials, your job is not only to administer subs, you are to CONTROL the benches. You can't merely stand at the half way line and call yourself a 4th official. Get involved and do your job. The teams as well as the other crew members deserve to have the best officials on these matches. If you are unable, unwilling, can't or don't know how to call fouls, then take yourself off these extremely important matches.
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Post by cardsinhand on Feb 9, 2009 14:29:09 GMT -6
I'll assist you dulac. Coaches laugh at me when I assist you, but I'll assist.
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Post by panthercoach on Feb 11, 2009 9:38:37 GMT -6
To all Refs...
I will agree with the above. At my last playoff game, one of the other team's coach was talking trash to my players on the field. Telling them that "We got you now. Ya'll aint got nothing. etc..." Well the second time this happened, I kind of lost it. I don't think opposing coaches should ever say anything to opposing players, ever. I was wrong in the way I reacted but I felt that my players needed protecting from the verbal assaults coming from the opposing AD. Well at the time all this was going down the 4th ref just stood there and let it happen. Whats the point of her being there if she won't even control this. It was pretty bad.
Second, I would like to apologize to all refs that I may have verbally abused this year. I am new to soocer having never played or coached or anything. I am an idiot when it comes to the rules and probably proved that point on many occasions throughout the year. Still I am ultra competitive and hard-headed and that made me blowup at times at the expense of the referees. Probably being wrong most of the time. But guys remember, I DO know everything! LOL. Anyway, I am a guy who truly believes in looking at yourself each time you complete a season to see what things you need to work on and what things you should change personally. Having done this, I need to have more sypamthy for you guys and the tough job that all of you have to do. I am truly sorry for acting the way I did a couple of times this season.
Third, I appreciate the refs who were patient with me. I have much greater respect for the refs who are willing to explain a call here and there and just listen to a coach whine a little than the ones who are so quick to card you for every little thing and get defensive every time a call is questioned. You guys do a great job and deserve respect.
Please accept my apologies.
J.L.
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Post by tonygalinto on Feb 11, 2009 9:50:13 GMT -6
To all Refs... I will agree with the above. At my last playoff game, one of the other team's coach was talking trash to my players on the field. Telling them that "We got you now. Ya'll aint got nothing. etc..." Well the second time this happened, I kind of lost it. I don't think opposing coaches should ever say anything to opposing players, ever. I was wrong in the way I reacted but I felt that my players needed protecting from the verbal assaults coming from the opposing AD. Well at the time all this was going down the 4th ref just stood there and let it happen. Whats the point of her being there if she won't even control this. It was pretty bad. Second, I would like to apologize to all refs that I may have verbally abused this year. I am new to soocer having never played or coached or anything. I am an idiot when it comes to the rules and probably proved that point on many occasions throughout the year. Still I am ultra competitive and hard-headed and that made me blowup at times at the expense of the referees. Probably being wrong most of the time. But guys remember, I DO know everything! LOL. Anyway, I am a guy who truly believes in looking at yourself each time you complete a season to see what things you need to work on and what things you should change personally. Having done this, I need to have more sypamthy for you guys and the tough job that all of you have to do. I am truly sorry for acting the way I did a couple of times this season. Third, I appreciate the refs who were patient with me. I have much greater respect for the refs who are willing to explain a call here and there and just listen to a coach whine a little than the ones who are so quick to card you for every little thing and get defensive every time a call is questioned. You guys do a great job and deserve respect. Please accept my apologies. J.L. Your apology to referees would mean a lot more if people knew what school you coach at. There are a lot of Panther teams in Louisiana.
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Post by panthercoach on Feb 11, 2009 11:10:15 GMT -6
My Bad.
CHNI
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Post by futbolislife on Feb 11, 2009 14:15:40 GMT -6
okay, one of my pet peeves..... 4th officials who have no idea what to do, what they should do and what they can do. The huge, vast, overwhelming majority thinking they are there to signal subs and write down notes on goals and bookings.
4th officials can be tricky business and sometimes can make the referees look so good by what they do. On the other hand, they can create real problems for the referee in their lack of knowledge at that position. It is truly a referee art form by itself. The sad part is that most referees do so few of them, that they have no idea of what to do.
Having watched several playoff games so far, I haven't seen one who really understands.
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Post by happyjack on Feb 11, 2009 15:24:30 GMT -6
referees who show up for a playoff game 10-minutes before the scheduled start time. If you can't be there at least 45 minutes ahead, then you shouldn't be taking the match. There is no reason a playoff match should be held up because an official is not there on time. Makes the entire crew look bad and speaks poorly of the professionalism you should be displaying...
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