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Post by beauchenecoach on Mar 6, 2010 17:33:23 GMT -6
Division III All State Team
1st Team
Mason Neveu- Newman Landon Lyons- Episcopal BR Manuel Sanchez- St. Thomas Aquinas Mark Holman- Ben Franklin Kyle McKay- Menard William Major- University Zak Smith- Northlake Christian Brian Flint- St. Martin's Taylor Scala- University Guy Scoggin- Newman GK- Connor Lynch- University
MVP- Mason Neveu- Newman Coach of the Year- Matt Jacques- Newman
2nd Team
Jordan Galjour- E.D. White Adam Burns- West Feliciana Luis Zervigon- De La Salle Shane Pantoja- Menard Matt Campbell- Runnels Vanya Popavic- Ben Franklin Brian Dupont- Westminster Cody Juneau- Menard James Juneau- Westminster Andrew Toups- E.D. White GK- Edgar Cervantes- St. Thomas Aquinas
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Post by Clobberin' Time on Mar 6, 2010 17:44:53 GMT -6
Matt Campbell second team? Questionable...
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Post by realitycheck on Mar 6, 2010 18:50:26 GMT -6
Chambell is Questionable but...no tournaments and no weekend games hurt him being seen by more coaches...word of mouth only goes so far...
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Post by newosoccerfan on Mar 6, 2010 19:49:15 GMT -6
I have personally watched games involving a lot of the southshore New Orleans teams and STA. Overall this is a good (but not great) list from my perspective. My thoughts are as follows:
I have serious doubts about Brian Flint as 1st Team; I don't see him as an athlete in the class with the rest of the 1st Team. I would have put Vanya Popavic on 1st Team instead. (In games, Vanya's play stand out much than Flint's.) Also, this year Luis Zervigon was not the player he was in past years due to a horrible femur fracture last spring or summer. I would have picked another 2nd Teamer, possibly the DLS sweeper.
I think it is hard to justify putting three players from one team on the 1st Team when the top say 4-5 teams in DIII were so even, especially when that team (Uhigh) didn't win it all. Also, I question three from Menard and two from E.D. White on the two DIII All State Teams when other quality GNO teams (one a regional team a' la' E.D. White) I have seen (Country Day and Haynes) get none and Newman (who beat Menard and was the State Champion) only gets two!!
How are only 8 players out of 22 (about 1/3rd) from the GNO area on the All-State Team when at least half of the (regionals) quarter finals, semi-finals, and finals teams were from the GNO area (including the State Champions) and four of the GNO teams were knocked out of the playoffs by other GNO teams?
It is hard to tell if any of the above is based on balancing positions on each team? Can someone add positions? (I actually think position balancing doesn't explain anything, but can't be sure without seeing all of the players positions.) A pro-senior bias might explain some of this, but I can't tell because the players' grades is not shown. Can someone add that, too? (Flint and Zervigon are both seniors.)
To be honest, I suspect there is some significant regional bias in the voting and some coaches haven't seen enough of this year's top 16 Teams in DIII play to be able to compare all of the players accurately. (So Flint and Zervigon get on based on reputation and newer quality teams' players are overlooked.)
Again, overall, I think this is a good (but not great list) list.
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Post by tchefuncta on Mar 6, 2010 20:44:28 GMT -6
My congratulations to Coach Matt Jacques on a job well done, in a rebuilding year no less. Also kudos to Mason Neveu, who I saw on 4 occasions, and who was the most dangerous player in the New Orleans area, including Jesuit's Steve C. and Hellenic Glory. (congrats to those two who also made all-state for DI.)
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Post by goat on Mar 6, 2010 21:14:10 GMT -6
I have personally watched games involving a lot of the southshore New Orleans teams and STA. Overall this is a good (but not great) list from my perspective. My thoughts are as follows: I have serious doubts about Brian Flint as 1st Team; I don't see him as an athlete in the class with the rest of the 1st Team. I would have put Vanya Popavic on 1st Team instead. (In games, Vanya's play stand out much than Flint's.) Also, this year Luis Zervigon was not the player he was in past years due to a horrible femur fracture last spring or summer. I would have picked another 2nd Teamer, possibly the DLS sweeper. I think it is hard to justify putting three players from one team on the 1st Team when the top say 4-5 teams in DIII were so even, especially when that team (Uhigh) didn't win it all. Also, I question three from Menard and two from E.D. White on the two DIII All State Teams when other quality GNO teams (one a regional team a' la' E.D. White) I have seen (Country Day and Haynes) get none and Newman (who beat Menard and was the State Champion) only gets two!! How are only 8 players out of 22 (about 1/3rd) from the GNO area on the All-State Team when at least half of the (regionals) quarter finals, semi-finals, and finals teams were from the GNO area (including the State Champions) and four of the GNO teams were knocked out of the playoffs by other GNO teams?It is hard to tell if any of the above is based on balancing positions on each team? Can someone add positions? (I actually think position balancing doesn't explain anything, but can't be sure without seeing all of the players positions.) A pro-senior bias might explain some of this, but I can't tell because the players' grades is not shown. Can someone add that, too? (Flint and Zervigon are both seniors.) To be honest, I suspect there is some significant regional bias in the voting and some coaches haven't seen enough of this year's top 16 Teams in DIII play to be able to compare all of the players accurately. (So Flint and Zervigon get on based on reputation and newer quality teams' players are overlooked.) Again, overall, I think this is a good (but not great list) list. The only bias I hear or read comes mostly from your post!! Not agreeing with some of the picks I'm OK with but to single out players by name is CLASSLESS!!!!
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Post by interesting on Mar 6, 2010 22:32:36 GMT -6
I wonder if the coaches actually look at the statistics of these players, or the statistics of their own?
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Post by flat3 on Mar 6, 2010 23:01:32 GMT -6
Statistics means nothing except for strikers, anyway. I think the list is pretty good. The number of players from a single team or whether that team won the title, etc. is not relevant here. Jesuit has six on the first team. Unlike MVP, this is an individual award. Coaches chose (or tried to choose) best players, period. The balance between teams, regions, etc. is not relevant either, AS LONG AS coaches know whom they are voting on, which is a different question. Congratulations to those who made the list, especially our University contingents, Taylor, William, and Connor!!
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Post by newosoccerfan on Mar 6, 2010 23:55:39 GMT -6
I have personally watched games involving a lot of the southshore New Orleans teams and STA. Overall this is a good (but not great) list from my perspective. My thoughts are as follows: I have serious doubts about Brian Flint as 1st Team; I don't see him as an athlete in the class with the rest of the 1st Team. I would have put Vanya Popavic on 1st Team instead. (In games, Vanya's play stand out much than Flint's.) Also, this year Luis Zervigon was not the player he was in past years due to a horrible femur fracture last spring or summer. I would have picked another 2nd Teamer, possibly the DLS sweeper. I think it is hard to justify putting three players from one team on the 1st Team when the top say 4-5 teams in DIII were so even, especially when that team (Uhigh) didn't win it all. Also, I question three from Menard and two from E.D. White on the two DIII All State Teams when other quality GNO teams (one a regional team a' la' E.D. White) I have seen (Country Day and Haynes) get none and Newman (who beat Menard and was the State Champion) only gets two!! How are only 8 players out of 22 (about 1/3rd) from the GNO area on the All-State Team when at least half of the (regionals) quarter finals, semi-finals, and finals teams were from the GNO area (including the State Champions) and four of the GNO teams were knocked out of the playoffs by other GNO teams?It is hard to tell if any of the above is based on balancing positions on each team? Can someone add positions? (I actually think position balancing doesn't explain anything, but can't be sure without seeing all of the players positions.) A pro-senior bias might explain some of this, but I can't tell because the players' grades is not shown. Can someone add that, too? (Flint and Zervigon are both seniors.) To be honest, I suspect there is some significant regional bias in the voting and some coaches haven't seen enough of this year's top 16 Teams in DIII play to be able to compare all of the players accurately. (So Flint and Zervigon get on based on reputation and newer quality teams' players are overlooked.) Again, overall, I think this is a good (but not great list) list. The only bias I hear or read comes mostly from your post!! Not agreeing with some of the picks I'm OK with but to single out players by name is CLASSLESS!!!! So Goat, according to you we can have a multi-page thread on the subject of the DIII All-State Team where the merits of individual players was discussed (and in some cases hotly debated) before the All-State team was selected but, now that the team has come out, we can't comment on the selection of individual players? We can debate the merits of other players on other threads throughout the year, but can't debate these selections. That seems inconsistent at best. And how does one 'not agree with some of the picks' (which you say you are "OK with") without mentioning names? You accuse me of bias. Have you seen any of the players I mentioned play? If not how can you say I am biased? Finally, and most importantly, what about the huge percentage of my post that doesn't mention names? I'd be happy to edit my post if you would focus on and comment on my point about the underrepresentation of Greater New Orleans (GNO) players on the All-State Teams. GNO players made up only about 1/3 of the DIII All-State Teams when GNO teams make up at least 1/2 of the playoff teams at the quarterfinal level and above, in spite of the fact that over 1/2 of the GNO teams in the playoffs were knock out of the playoffs by other GNO teams usually at the Regional level or higher. AS LONG AS coaches know whom they are voting on, which is a different question! Flat that is my point, and I think there are several things thats show this, including the disparity between GNO All-State players (about 1/3) and GNO team that won at least one playoff game (1/2 of this group).
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Post by flat3 on Mar 7, 2010 1:02:30 GMT -6
newosoccerfan, Here is ONE explanation I can offer. Suppose soccer talents (all-state caliber players) are spread out in the entire state. GNO TEAMS did better than their share of all state caliber players simply because they have 5, 8, or 11 decent players in each team. After all, each team's strength is determined by the collective goods of the team, not by a couple of individual players. Take Newman, for example. Neveu and Scoggin are consensus all-states. I don't recall anyone else mentioned before it was announced. The same goes to BF. Newman still won the state two years in a row. Why? Maybe coaching, but I'd say it's because of the quality of 9th, 10th, and 11th players. Due to the strength of these starters, Newman didn't need more than two all staters. The same may be true for other GNO teams, because club soccer is more popular there. This is, by the way, just one explanation for the discrepancy between # of all state and # of playoff teams in GNO. As far as I know, you are the only person complaining about it, and I happen to think that these two numbers do not have to match. If you want to show the bias, you need to look past this year. This is way too small a number to claim any "bias."
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Post by goat on Mar 7, 2010 8:01:16 GMT -6
@ newosoccerfan You can do whatever you want. I just think you show poor judgment when specifically naming individuals you think don’t deserve the honor. Before the vote the debate is wide open, but once the team is named I think it shows poor taste to call out specific individuals and go into detail as to why they don’t deserve it. I also don’t like your attitude toward the players outside of New Orleans. THERE ARE TONS of very talented players that don’t live in the GNO. That my friend is a fact. This award is not about who has the most talented players it is about individual players. There are teams outside of GNO that may only have a few very good players and that is why they didn’t go as deep in the playoffs as a GNO team but should the talents of those players be over looked? No need to answer that one because the answer is NO! The D1 all state team has 6 Jesuit players and I think that is about 2 to many, but I would NEVER single two of those players out by name.
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Post by newosoccerfan on Mar 7, 2010 10:43:17 GMT -6
Goat,
I have just as much of a problem with the DI 1st Team All-State being half+ Jesuit. I didn't see a single D1 game this year so it is hard for me to make an argument when these guys MAY have been amazing (which I doubt but can't be sure of). I think my regional bias argument cuts both way. The coach's failure to see quality teams in their division, and likely voting based on reputation unfairly favored GNO (Jesuit specifically) in the DI. No matter which region it favors in a particular division, this a flaw.
This situation reminds me of fan voting for the NBA All-Star Team (Allen Iverson being an All Star this year when he can't even start for an NBA team). I think the coach's All-State Teams should be held to a higher standard than fan voting in all three divisions, and I tried to point that out with examples I was famliar with.
I think most people knowledgable about soccer would agree with this criticism of the coach's All State Team voting regardless of division. It sure seems like you do (based on what you said about Jesuit's 6 1st Team All-State players). Let's focus on where we agree, not where we disagree, and try to make things better in the future by discussing it on this Board.
NewO
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Post by realitycheck on Mar 8, 2010 13:45:00 GMT -6
NewO...ufortunately, as a fan, you have no clue how the actuall voting works....I think it is a fair representation of D3...i put the runnels boy on and took off a U Boy but...no one really got to see the Runnels boy play..That factors into the voting...If you dont go deep into playoffs, and/or you dont go play tournaments, then it is hard to get kids on. The boy from BF who made it is deserving. He is very good...The other one is a Sophmore..Thats a tough vote. Normally, Jr's and Sr's are on unless a player is named mullins or cabos. The other factor is thatif you would see who was up for this, it would make more sense of how kids end up where...I hope this sheds a little bit of light.....
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Post by nolaball on Mar 8, 2010 16:05:40 GMT -6
It's a fair list. Does it represent the best 11 in D3? Probably not, but as realitycheck says, how far a team gets in the playoffs and how many tournaments a team plays is a huge factor as that's the only way a coach from outside of the area gets to see a player. The NO teams got bad draws against each other and knocked each other out. A player in the semis and finals has a much better shot than a player at, say, Haynes or Country Day, based on exposure. Anyway, NO got 4 of the 11, 6 if you count the Northshore. Add BR and that's 10 of 11 within 75 miles.
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Post by newosoccerfan on Mar 8, 2010 16:31:07 GMT -6
Thanks Realitycheck (and Nolaball). I do believe that if I saw the list of nominated players (or agreed with the tendency to consider Seniors and Juniors over Sophomores) the team would make more sense to me. When I go to games I do try to see if good players are Seniors, so I know who is returning next year, but I try to soccer judge talent without regard to age, grade, or reputation. And the mathematical metric, 1/3 of players from GNO but 1/2 of playoff game winning teams being from GNO, seems to indicate something is amiss.
Maybe what is amiss is a lower than normal number of quality Seniors at some GNO schools and GNO teams knocking each other out of the playoffs so some schools get less exposure than they deserve. (Poor Haynes doesn't even make the playoffs!) I may need more time to see what these All-State teams are about, and why they diverge from my view of players I have seen play.
NewO
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Post by bullydog on Mar 9, 2010 5:11:49 GMT -6
reality check--you keep making an issue about the kid from Runnels(BTW-his name is Matt Campbell-dont be afraid to use it and give him a little respect by spelling it correctly just once)The problem according to you is all about scheduling. While I dont totally disagree with you on this point,obviously scheduling is completely outside of his purveyance(that means no say in it much less any control over it --just so you know) You make this point on more than one thread as if this were THE major factor in picking all state players. Gee and all this time I thought it was supposed to be about who the best players are. Besides, if you check out the post on LHSSCA Annual Mtg. by pitchstalker it seems that apathy on behalf of a lot of coaches would blow a huge hole in your argument. All of this does prove one thing to me--while word of mouth may or may not only go so far(debatable)Politics and back room deal making still reach far and wide in this process. I want to congratulate every all state player for their accomplishment- great job! A couple of issues come to mind on D-III first team. First, there is one player included who seemingly spent almost as much time injured as he did playing and the times I watched him play he did not come close to making the impact he had in previous years(just wondering aloud) Second, another player on first team didn't get MVP of his district while the player that was MVP of that district is on the second team. Seeing that they both tied for second most votes for BR All Metro MVP( behind a legit D I all state MVP candidate ) I am hard pressed to believe that the(arguably) 3 best players in BR Metro area don't deserve to be on first team all state whatever division they might be in. There is one really bright spot about the list---it seems to have stopped the incessant whining by one D III dad
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Post by goat on Mar 9, 2010 12:43:22 GMT -6
All of this does prove one thing to me--while word of mouth may or may not only go so far(debatable)Politics and back room deal making still reach far and wide in this process. >>>Bullydog
Then you said, “Second, another player on first team didn't get MVP of his district while the player that was MVP of that district is on the second team.”
One or two questions, could your first statement also apply to the All District voters in the second statement? In other words could "politics and back room deal making" have robbed the kid who was voted on the 1st team all state team from the all district MVP award? Just something to think about!
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Post by realitycheck on Mar 9, 2010 14:40:29 GMT -6
NEWO..for the record...im not using kids name as per request of another poster. Second, dont take offense to things on this board. You bashed my kid but I havent said a word yet about it. I still think he belongs on the 1st team. AND, I put Champbell on my first team selection, for the record... SO, just trying to let you know the process. It doesnt work like it should...OR It DOES work like it should. Its all perspective right?? This has happened for a long time now..Since I was in School.....1st team ALL State..2nd team all metro...Thats just how it goes.....fair or not...Perspective...thats how it works......
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Post by llcard on Mar 9, 2010 17:07:20 GMT -6
reality check--you keep making an issue about the kid from Runnels(BTW-his name is Matt Campbell-dont be afraid to use it and give him a little respect by spelling it correctly just once)The problem according to you is all about scheduling. While I dont totally disagree with you on this point,obviously scheduling is completely outside of his purveyance(that means no say in it much less any control over it --just so you know) You make this point on more than one thread as if this were THE major factor in picking all state players. Gee and all this time I thought it was supposed to be about who the best players are. Besides, if you check out the post on LHSSCA Annual Mtg. by pitchstalker it seems that apathy on behalf of a lot of coaches would blow a huge hole in your argument. All of this does prove one thing to me--while word of mouth may or may not only go so far(debatable)Politics and back room deal making still reach far and wide in this process. I want to congratulate every all state player for their accomplishment- great job! A couple of issues come to mind on D-III first team. First, there is one player included who seemingly spent almost as much time injured as he did playing and the times I watched him play he did not come close to making the impact he had in previous years(just wondering aloud) Second, another player on first team didn't get MVP of his district while the player that was MVP of that district is on the second team. Seeing that they both tied for second most votes for BR All Metro MVP( behind a legit D I all state MVP candidate ) I am hard pressed to believe that the(arguably) 3 best players in BR Metro area don't deserve to be on first team all state whatever division they might be in. There is one really bright spot about the list---it seems to have stopped the incessant whining by one D III dad Hey Clint.... I wouldn't call it incessant whining...Its called adding ones opinion.
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Post by brsc15 on Mar 9, 2010 21:51:13 GMT -6
First, there is one player included who seemingly spent almost as much time injured as he did playing and the times I watched him play he did not come close to making the impact he had in previous years(just wondering aloud) I'm just taking a wild guess here, but I assume you're talking about William Major. University was a completely different team without him. Our offense deteriorated in his absence on the field, especially in the midfield. Prior to injury, he was better than he was last year, and after being out a month, he came back and made a huge impact. We wouldn't have beaten Northlake Christian or Ben Franklin without him.
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