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Post by ijsouth1966 on Feb 24, 2013 23:06:41 GMT -6
I heard there was a fight, or a near-fight, after the game among a few students. I didn't see it, as I was on my way out of the stadium. I was in the SPS student section for the game. First, I hate to see our seniors get screwed out of a state championship and i think it's a problem with refs of all sports being too scared of "giving a team the game" when they should be making the right call for the situation and clearly it should have been a pk. as for the fight or near fight (didn't see any punches thrown) was because a SPS parent thought he saw the kid that threw the bottle and grabbed him by the back of the neck (leaving scratches and what not on the kids neck) but that kid didnt throw anything. all the students in the area snapped at the parent and he told any student who wanted to fight him to go up there. the SPS athletic director along with a couple of students and another parent broke it up and they brought the kid who the guy grabbed down. Thanks for the info. To be honest, at most of these games, the parents are the ones who get the most agitated. Sounds like someone overreacted, then cooler heads prevailed.
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Post by sissoko on Feb 24, 2013 23:29:26 GMT -6
so a no call on a PK saves Jesuit?
Anyone remember the textbook tackle that was called a PK for Jesuit against Lafayette in the '05 finals? I'm sure there's been plenty of other calls for/against them, just reminds me of it.
The Jays never get the good calls.
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Post by soccerdad82 on Feb 25, 2013 8:00:46 GMT -6
please examine the video replay of the 'no call foul'. shows a desperate defender sliding in to the SPS player from behind. he made no attempt at all to even touch the ball. play was an obvious foul, and everyone knows it. should've been a red card as well. Its bad enough that the referee pretended that it did not happen. Outcome of the game was determined by the referees inability. It was really a shame. Timaeus seems to think it was a clean play. Just look at it. Disgusting.
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Post by quepasa on Feb 25, 2013 8:06:45 GMT -6
first, this is big boy soccer. unless the defender straight up tackled the player i say no call in that situation. second, tad has got to go. from my view pan am would have been perfect and taken out many security issues. further on security, orleans sheriff deputies are mainly jail guards and process servers. i would guess the ones working were reserve deputies. either get NOPD or hire a reputable security firm. it could have gotten very ugly.
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Post by quepasa on Feb 25, 2013 8:10:13 GMT -6
just watched the video. pk and red card warranted. no excuse by the referee. that was basically a straight up tackle.
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Post by Scott Crawford on Feb 25, 2013 9:29:26 GMT -6
I have watched the video numerous times. I see nothing conclusive from the video. It's grainy, there's lots of glare, and taken from a hundred yards away with no focus on the play. The impartial head referee did not see a foul. Nor did the linesman who had a clear view of the play. Nor did I. I assume none of the three of us has any allegiance to any of the schools involved. I certainly do not, nor do I know any of the players or coaches. I saw no foul. I did see a Jesuit player make a fast run to catch up to the St. Paul player. I also saw the Jesuit player get side-by-side the St. Paul player before making contact. The Jesuit player cleanly got the ball, then got the player. The image in the next link, which can be enlarged, shows a moment after the Jesuit player made contact with the ball. www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=608204279196771&set=a.608193775864488.158560.181599938523876&type=3&theater When Jesuit lost two years ago to St. Paul's, we did not have to delete any posts from Jesuit fans complaining about the game or the officiating. For the past two years, we have had to do so as a result some very crude remarks. Whether they are St. Paul's fans or not, there is much to be said about learning to lose with grace.
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Post by quepasa on Feb 25, 2013 9:33:18 GMT -6
I have watched the video numerous times. I see nothing conclusive from the video. It's grainy, there's lots of glare, and taken from a hundred yards away with no focus on the play. The impartial head referee did not see a foul. Nor did the linesman who had a clear view of the play. Nor did I. I assume none of the three of us has any allegiance to any of the schools involved. I certainly do not, nor do I know any of the players or coaches. I saw no foul. I did see a Jesuit player make a fast run to catch up to the St. Paul player. I also saw the Jesuit player get side-by-side the St. Paul player before making contact. The Jesuit player cleanly got the ball, then got the player. The image in the next link, which can be enlarged, shows a moment after the Jesuit player made contact with the ball. www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=608204279196771&set=a.608193775864488.158560.181599938523876&type=3&theater When Jesuit lost two years ago to St. Paul's, we did not have to delete any posts from Jesuit fans complaining about the game or the officiating. For the past two years, we have had to do so as a result some very crude remarks. Whether they are from St. Paul's fans or not, there is much to be said about learning to lose with grace. it looked like a foul to me but yes, inconclusive from just a video. anyone who says st pauls was "screwed" is nuts. you play to win and what happens happens. jesuit won fair and square.
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Post by pOkLE on Feb 25, 2013 9:46:08 GMT -6
Would be great for someone to post the clip. Same goes for the "controversial" Episcopal BR goal in DIII championship game.
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Post by loJic on Feb 25, 2013 9:53:00 GMT -6
From where I was sitting it looked like a foul. I was also sitting on the other side of the field and looking at the players backs as it happened. So I can't make a legit call, but from where I was it looked like it.
Aside from the "no call" Jesuit was the better team IMO and pulled out a win. They deserve it. St. Paul's put up a great fight and shouldn't hang their heads.
I'm not bashing the refs but I did feel the center was a little inconsistent. He didn't call a bad game but was just a little wishy washy at times. The ARs were good.
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Post by vistajay on Feb 25, 2013 12:18:07 GMT -6
What about the spitting incident at the end of the game, directed towards the head referee? What is the penalty when a player spits at a referee following the game?
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Post by Patriot fan on Feb 25, 2013 12:47:14 GMT -6
attended the game -- penalty on Jesuit should have been called, but that happens in all leagues professional and amateur...but it should have been called regardless..the Jesuit defender knew what he was doing by pulling him down and decided it was the right thing to do at that time and got away with a no call..the center ref was mediocre at best..my 2 cents..
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 25, 2013 13:14:07 GMT -6
I honestly did not see the play or "foul". I was actually talking to a fan sitting next to me when it occurred. In my opinion though, what has happened is done. Nothing anyone can do about it. Mistakes are made at every level of sports. The best thing to do is put it behind us and start focusing on next year. St. Paul's and Jesuit will both be back at the elite level and playing for a state title. However I do agree that the head ref was not consistent and he seemed almost worried and nervous throughout. I started to wonder if this was his first title game or not. Regardless congrats to all participants and all state champions!
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oranje
All-District
10%
Posts: 207
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Post by oranje on Feb 25, 2013 15:05:08 GMT -6
I have watched the video numerous times. I see nothing conclusive from the video. It's grainy, there's lots of glare, and taken from a hundred yards away with no focus on the play. The impartial head referee did not see a foul. Nor did the linesman who had a clear view of the play. Nor did I. I assume none of the three of us has any allegiance to any of the schools involved. I certainly do not, nor do I know any of the players or coaches. I saw no foul. I did see a Jesuit player make a fast run to catch up to the St. Paul player. I also saw the Jesuit player get side-by-side the St. Paul player before making contact. The Jesuit player cleanly got the ball, then got the player. The image in the next link, which can be enlarged, shows a moment after the Jesuit player made contact with the ball. www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=608204279196771&set=a.608193775864488.158560.181599938523876&type=3&theater When Jesuit lost two years ago to St. Paul's, we did not have to delete any posts from Jesuit fans complaining about the game or the officiating. For the past two years, we have had to do so as a result some very crude remarks. Whether they are St. Paul's fans or not, there is much to be said about learning to lose with grace. Scott, with all due respect - please don't attribute any crude remarks with anyone associated with SPS. It could be anyone who is against Jesuit. That goes with the territory when you're on top. Also, please refrain from generalities by accusing St Paul's fans of having to learn "to lose with grace". That's slightly careless. When Jesuit lost to St. Paul's 2 years ago I don't recall the game ending in double overtime with a controversial no-call inside of 3 mins to go so post-game chatter is expected [albeit respectully]. So please keep perspective. I agree the better team won - no arguement there. As for the comment 'the Jesuit player cleanly got the ball, then got the player' - the video and and picture you posted shows just the opposite - the Jesuit player driving the SPS player off the ball without touching or making any effort for the ball - the fundamental basis of the criticism. The video does clearly show the ball rolling harmlessly to the goalie. If this move is allowed by defenders than it's open season on attackers near or away from the ball. Any attacking player can then be taken out inside the 18 without intent to go for the ball. Just my 2c.
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Post by chelsea007 on Feb 25, 2013 16:30:07 GMT -6
Anything regarding SPS students or players will be handled by the St. Paul staff. Of this I am confident. Coach Moser, Coach Trevor Watkins and Coach Ketelson will ensure the expectations for these young men are spelled out in no uncertain terms. St. Paul is a class program I can promise you. As for the match, St. Paul should be upset. I sure would be. That being said, the future looks bright for them as young as they are. This will be great motivation when the Wolves see the Jays again. Congrats to all on their respective seasons.
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Post by thereporter on Feb 25, 2013 17:46:10 GMT -6
If I am calling it from the replay booth: PLAY STANDS AS CALLED. There is simply no "incontrovertible visual evidence" for the call to be overturned. There is no way an unbiased viewer can see enough in that video to overturn the call. We all see what we want to see. St. Pauls wants to see a foul, Jesuit does not. The video does neither. The whining needs to stop.
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Post by chelsea007 on Feb 25, 2013 17:51:35 GMT -6
In real time I thought it was a pk. Not whining, just what I thought. The video did nothing to change my mind. The guy with the whistle obviously had a better look and thought differently. His opinion is the only one that matters.
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Post by Boomer on Feb 25, 2013 18:38:07 GMT -6
I have watched the video numerous times. I see nothing conclusive from the video. It's grainy, there's lots of glare, and taken from a hundred yards away with no focus on the play. The impartial head referee did not see a foul. Nor did the linesman who had a clear view of the play. Nor did I. I assume none of the three of us has any allegiance to any of the schools involved. I certainly do not, nor do I know any of the players or coaches. I saw no foul. I did see a Jesuit player make a fast run to catch up to the St. Paul player. I also saw the Jesuit player get side-by-side the St. Paul player before making contact. The Jesuit player cleanly got the ball, then got the player. The image in the next link, which can be enlarged, shows a moment after the Jesuit player made contact with the ball. www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=608204279196771&set=a.608193775864488.158560.181599938523876&type=3&theater When Jesuit lost two years ago to St. Paul's, we did not have to delete any posts from Jesuit fans complaining about the game or the officiating. For the past two years, we have had to do so as a result some very crude remarks. Whether they are St. Paul's fans or not, there is much to be said about learning to lose with grace. Havn't seen video, don't care. Ref, not fans 50 yds away, runs game and though some games are not reffed to perfection, they are a necessary part of game and I always ask my own team ... "why didn't you score a few more and take it out of contention?." But looking at that still picture... it shows players hip-to-hip, shoulder-to-shoulder, both with arms in front of each other, even up. If J player contacted ball, from that still picture, definitely no foul. Even if he didn't he is shoulder to shoulder, not behind the other player and he can ride the player off the ball as long as he keeps his arms down... and he is looking at the ball... not the other player's legs etc. From that still picture? No foul in my opinion.
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Post by chelsea007 on Feb 25, 2013 19:15:32 GMT -6
No offense Boomer, but that still photo isn't definitive in my book. It is a moment on time. Bottom line is there wasn't a call right or wrong.
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Post by Schiedsrichter on Feb 25, 2013 19:45:13 GMT -6
Here is my opinion on what this forum should be doing:
First, I think that referees will always come under fire for either calls or no calls such as the one we saw at the game. It is part of the job, and referees know that.
I was right on top of the box and I saw what I saw and will keep my opinion on whether or not it was a penalty kick to myself.
For those of who think it was and for those of who think it was not, we should look at what can we learn from this experience. What can we take from it as players, coaches, fans, or referees?
One of the hardest calls to make in a high intensity game is a penalty kick. You cannot just call a pk because it looked like a foul. You must be 100 percent sure that what you are calling is indeed a foul by the defender in the box. To be 100 percent sure, one must have the right angle. Angles are what define whether or not a foul can be seen clearly or not. When you are on the field as a referee you must position yourself to see the angle between players at all times. This is not easy to do. You are not up in stands and do not have the benefit of having such an angle. The ref must move about to find the angles, and it is very hard to get to a spot to see the angle needed to call that pk.
I am not arguing one way or another. I just want to make clear that Louisiana does not have a bunch of FIFA referees and we are not perfect (FIFAs arent even perfect!). The game had been going on for around 97 minutes. That means the referee had been running around controlling the game for that amount of time. Constantly trying to get the best angle. And then with three minutes to go in the second OT period, a very quick counter-attack ensues and the ref may or may not have had the time to see whether it was 100 percent a pk.
Maybe he did have the position needed. I am not sure, but it is something to think about when reviewing a referees decision. And referees always go over what they did well and what they could have done better after the game. Every game referees learn and try to improve themselves. It is a very time consuming job if one is to be good at it. Refs make sacrifices to in order to go to certain games and to go to conferences and meetings and training sessions.
Maybe there was a controversial call, and it is a downer that the game ended in such a way. BUT there were no kids hurt on the field from a dirty tackle, there were no fights, and there was limit to one or two controversial calls. This game has the looks of a professional match in terms the way we are looking at the referee. He kept control of the game, and all the forum can do is review this one call.
If you consider the game as a whole, the referee did very well, in my opinion. One major controversial decision. Half the fans were happy half of them were not.
I think the referee needs a break from all of this criticism. Its not an easy job, and as happy jack pointed out earlier in the feed, if you want to be able to go out on the field and call it yourself then go take the courses (although it will take a hell of a lot more than a grade 9 and grade 8 entry level course to be able to call a D1 boys final)
These teams will meet again so they will have their chance for rematches for years to come. Might as well give it a Derby name.
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Post by ijsouth1966 on Feb 25, 2013 20:19:22 GMT -6
Here's something I've been thinking about at work today. Those of us who were at the game have an opinion on whether it was a penalty or not; a lot of people, myself included, think it was a clear penalty - others do not. It's all water under the bridge now - the one person whose opinion counted made his decision Saturday night. The point is, many of us, myself included, have lost sight of the point that the (non) decision did not lose the game for St Paul's; what lost it was the corner down on the other end a minute later. Just because the decision did not go SPS's way did not necessarily mean they were destined to lose - it was still up to them to determine that. Who knows if the forward would have scored if he wasn't fouled? Who knows if the pk would have been made? Those are interesting what ifs, but the main factor in St Paul's losing that game was their inability to defend set pieces - the coach said so himself.
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