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Post by flat3 on Feb 12, 2004 23:04:26 GMT -6
I hope I am wrong, but statistics say.... DI #8 Catholic beat #11 Carencro (3-0) as expected. #8 Catholic lost to #9 Acadiana (0-1) mild upset. DII #4 Dutchtown lost to #3 Ben Franklin (0-4) 0-4 for #4 vs #3? #8 McKinley beat #11 Bishop Sullivan (3-2) as expected. #8 McKinley will play #1 Vandebilt DIII #7 Episcopal lost to #2 STA (1-7) 1-7 for #7? #6 University beat unranked Ouachita Chris. (4-3, OT) .... #6 University will play #9 Opelousas Cath. There is no other ranked team in BTR. If I am correct, McKinley will lose bad to Vandebilt, and University will have a hard time against OC. I hope I am wrong....
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Post by spectator on Feb 12, 2004 23:37:00 GMT -6
I can not speak for all the other schools, but I do not believe that Catholic is overrated. They lost tonight to a very good top 10 ranked Acadiana team (which is probably underated due to a mid season slump) by the score of 1-0 at Acadiana's home field. On another night or another field - the outcome may have been different. Also, if the brackets were seeded, Catholic would probably be still in the playoff picture. They also beat the #2 team and #4 team in Div I. Catholic is certainly deserving of a top 10 ranking.
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Post by flat3 on Feb 12, 2004 23:46:11 GMT -6
I can not speak for all the other schools, but I do not believe that Catholic is overrated. They lost tonight to a very good top 10 ranked Acadiana team (which is probably underated due to a mid season slump) by the score of 1-0 at Acadiana's home field. I see your point, spectator. I know how good Catholic was this year and it was not overrated. I also agree with you that Acadiana was somewhat underrated. I believe they were rated much higher earlier in the season. I hope you didn't get offended by my post. My main point of the original post was more toward DII and DIII. And it was solely based on the ranking and the playoff result. I repeat; I hope I am wrong. Tell me so, UHS and McKinley!
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Post by goat on Feb 13, 2004 9:42:52 GMT -6
catholic is not overrated. they play a great game of soccer and have shown they can beat the big boys. the only thing i might disagree with is the statement that the acadiana win was a mild upset. acadiana's record might not be as good as cath. coming into the game but lets be honest cath. plays in a much weaker dist.
don't take what i'm saying wrong cath. is a great team, i just think it would have been a mild upset if they would have won the game.
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Post by futbol4ever on Feb 13, 2004 10:42:17 GMT -6
I wouldn't say that they are overrated. Especially in Division I, but the talent level is way lower than it has been in the past. I have been following high school soccer since it started in 1986 and the talent level is way low from what it was in the early to mid 90s. The reason for it is that there are less kids playing soccer now in Baton Rouge than they were in 1987. And it shows. Baton Rouge used to be the dominant city in the select program and for the past five years they have been killed by New Orleans, Lafayette, Houma and just about everywhere. That has transalated to weaker high school teams. The worst part of it all is that I don't see the trend changing anytime soon. Look for some high schools to drop soccer in the next few years because they can't attract enough players. All this while the rest of the State is getting stronger and doing a much better job in developing the sport.
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Post by McScruff on Feb 13, 2004 11:01:20 GMT -6
Wow, that is amazing. How can less kids be involved in soccer right now than were is 1987? With as much as soccer has grown nationally over those 17 years, I just don't see how that could be. I am not doubting you, just amazed. Baton Rouge should definitely be more competitive on all levels than they are. I hope they get their act together.
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Post by panther on Feb 13, 2004 12:08:50 GMT -6
Just something to think about
How many High school soccer teams in each city are there divided by quality soccer players?
I suggest that Baton Rouge teams are not that strong because of the number of teams in Baton Rouge. (35 or so teams) Each team has 2-3 quality players.
Talent level is lower in Baton Rouge from the early 90's but I think will be high again in the next 5 or so yrs
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Post by McScruff on Feb 13, 2004 14:16:26 GMT -6
I think it all boils down to the youth soccer programs. True, BR has more schools than other cities, but that is a direct relation to population. Theoretically, BR should also have more quality soccer players than smaller cities, too, since they have more potential athletes to develop.
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Post by someWHEREinBR on Feb 13, 2004 15:50:06 GMT -6
In the Baton Rouge area soccer is not the dominant sport, its football, baseball, and basketball. Most of your schools don't care too much for soccer because they dont draw crowds of 5,000+ fans everygame. Are some teams overrated? Ofcaurse that's allways going to be the case. I believe it just so happens that these teams are slumping when they get to the playoffs. Most of these teams (Dutchtown, Catholic, U High, Episcapal) go to tournaments and hang with the big contenders in all divisions from New Orleans, Houma, and Northshore area schools. When only 25 kids tryout for a team, some with little or no experience, you have to deal with what your given. The coaches don't have the option of picking from 15 players, all select, and experienced seniors. But what do I know I'm just an observer.
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Post by spectator on Feb 13, 2004 16:04:13 GMT -6
I believe several of the previous post summarize things nicely. I can not comment on the overall quality since 1986 since I have only been following select/rec/highschool soccer for the last 5 years or so. However, the quality that is there especially from the select program, is significantly divided among the high schools. At the rec level the quality is limited and the players from a particular high school play on different team so when the high school team comes together, they are not use to playing together. ( In smaller draw areas the players may play with each other year round through rec then high school.) Also, the point about the support at the high school level is true in that soccer tends to be the "stepchild" to the other sports. Hopefully things are changing, but only time will tell. I also agree with Goat that I would not consider the Acadiana win a mild upset. Acadiana apparently has a lot of excellent players and played well as a team and it shows. I am not sure what happened earlier in the season, but they are playing excellent soccer of late.
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Post by McScruff on Feb 13, 2004 16:10:54 GMT -6
In the Baton Rouge area soccer is not the dominant sport, its football, baseball, and basketball. Most of your schools don't care too much for soccer because they dont draw crowds of 5,000+ fans everygame. Hey, that's EVERYWHERE. I don't accept that as a reason why Baton Rouge soccer programs are not keeping pace with the rest of the state. Do you know where Lafayette's State runner-up trophy from last year is? Me neither, but I don't think its on display at the school.
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Post by someWHEREinBR on Feb 13, 2004 17:30:51 GMT -6
I was just making a comment that because soccer is not being broadcasted like football, basketball, and baseball are, young children arent getting into it as much as football or baseball.... Its not just in Baton Rouge its everywhere. But I know by living in the Baton Rouge Area, kids who play soccer are considered 'wimps' and should play a 'real sport' like football.... I laugh at these comments, knowing that football is not really a contact sport... its a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport. Am I proving my point by defending soccer in the BR area... probably not. But I do notice that the teams that are dominant in football, aren't so dominant in socccer (Evangel, W. Monroe, Redemptrist, John Ehret, ect.) and soccer teams that are dominant arent so in football, few execptions.
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Post by flat3 on Feb 13, 2004 20:39:20 GMT -6
I am quite happy that this thread has developed the way it has. That was exactly what I had in my mind when I started. Talent level is lower in Baton Rouge from the early 90's but I think will be high again in the next 5 or so yrs Hi, panther. I am just curious if you have a good reason why you think things will be better in five or so years. Are more middle school kids playing soccer in BTR? I was coaching a U14 rec team a couple of years ago (they were U13 kids playing up), and there weren't enough teams to come up with good games. They had to play with U15 or sometimes U16. It'd be great if the number of players is picking up lately, for example. Also, I said Acadiana beating Catholic was a mild upset ONLY BASED ON their rankings (#9 beating #8). That was part of my point. Should Catholic have been ranked above Acadiana? Should Episcopal been ranked #7 in DIII? UHS #6 in DIII? Dutchtown #4 in DII? A very good indication is #6 UHS playing against #9 Opelousas Catholic Monday....
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Post by goat on Feb 13, 2004 21:00:10 GMT -6
hey flat3 i was just joking with you about the upset. both teams were very good and both play the same style of soccer. i sometime like to stir the pot. please don't let what i said make you mad, i completly understand where you were coming from.
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Post by flat3 on Feb 14, 2004 19:35:47 GMT -6
Hey Goat, I wasn't mad or anything like that at all. Spectator made the same point as you did about the "upset." In fact, I would have voted Acadiana over Catholic myself. Of course, I am saying this not because Catholic lost to Acadiana.... ;D It will be interesting this Monday and Tuesday.
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Post by flat3 on Feb 14, 2004 19:55:31 GMT -6
Baton Rouge used to be the dominant city in the select program and for the past five years they have been killed by New Orleans, Lafayette, Houma and just about everywhere. That has transalated to weaker high school teams. Hmmm. I didn't know that BTR Select used to be dominant. I know some kids (say age 10-17) in BTR don't want to play select soccer for its playing style. BTR select teams play like Italian soccer; defensive soccer with counter attacks. Their idea of the best game is 1-0 instead of 4-3. Some of the best players in BTR commute to NO to play select (W. Bagayoko, who went to Wisconsin from McKinley, for example). That brings me to another point. Watching soccer (particularly 1-0 games) is boring for people who don't know much about the game. Basketball has more goals and football has more "exciting" plays. Of course, for people who know much about soccer, a nice defensive play is a treat. For novice fans, goals matter, and many 1-0 games do not help recruit new soccer fans or players....
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Post by snikes on Feb 15, 2004 8:30:07 GMT -6
It is amazing how you are missing the facts. There are 31 programs in the Baton Rouge Area. With a population of around 350,000. You can not spread out the talent that many ways and still produce state champions every year.
In NO How many HS have programs10-15? for a population of 1 million people.
Someone mentioned William Bagoyako leaving BR. He left the Spring season of his senior year after his team did not form. He had already commited to Wisconsin.
This year in New Orleans, Lafrenier and NOSA had to combine their two oldest teams just to be able to field a team. Be careful in the statistics you are throwing out.
One of the big problems with the better teams in BR has been the influence of parent coaches. (This is on the way out) Catholic has had so much talent over the past several years but could not do anything because they had one of the boys daddy's as the coach. They have finally changed their mentatility and have a soccer guy now. But, he will still never have as stong of teams as before because of the number of High Schools in the area.
How many schools in the lafayatte area. 6 or 7 maybe. You can not argue with the numbers.
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Post by defencerules on Feb 15, 2004 11:04:24 GMT -6
does the northshore count as the "new orleans area?" if so, at least 18 n.o. area schools MADE THE PLAYOFFS. so at least double that figure to account for the ones that didn't make it, for an approximate total of 36? this was just a quick guess with out actually looking at the official lhsaa distrct lists.
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Post by flat3 on Feb 15, 2004 12:47:35 GMT -6
If you are interested in Divisions, see: www.lhsaa.org/sportsfiles/soccer/soccerdistricts.htmAccording to this: NO Area (including Northshore district): DI-5,7,9, DII-7, DIII-6,7 = 35 schools (roughly) BR Area (including Feliciana, etc.): DI-4, DII-5,6, DIII-4 = 24 schools (roughly) Relatively to these cities' population, BTR has quite a few schools with soccer programs, for sure. If you make that argument, however, look at Lafeyette DI-3, DII-4, DIII-3 = 20 schools (roughly). That's a lot of schools for its population, and they are doing well in soccer.... As for "parent coaches," I am one of them myself. I stopped coaching after U14, though, since I knew that I couldn't coach them any longer. Some parent coaches, however, can do a good job at HS level. The problem is not if the coach is a parent or not. Rather, it's if the coach is capable or not.
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Post by goat on Feb 15, 2004 13:54:59 GMT -6
thanks flat3 you make my piont about # of schools and talent. the reason br teams aren't doinfg as well as other areas is not because of the # of school. it is because the talent pool itself is low for the population. why is this? some people say it is because other sports take the kids away from soccer and i think that is true, but why doesn't it happen in other areas?
i think it all starts with the rec program and then the select program. the reason the lafayette area keeps so many of the kids in soccer and the reason the kids pick soccer over other sports is they have had a great program to play in. LYTSA is one of if not the best rec soccer organization in the state. our kids get pressured to play other sports all the time but they tell the coaches they are going to play the sport they love and grew up playing. if baton rouge wants to get back into the swing of things they have to start with the u-4 and 5 teams and grow there programs. if you are losing kids to other sports it is because there rec programs are run better than your soccer program.
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