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Post by playwide on Jan 30, 2015 10:05:15 GMT -6
When we say that the level of play on the field in Louisiana needs to be improved, everyone nods their head and appropriately acknowledges this fact.
When we say that the level of refs in Louisiana needs to be improved, everyone says become a ref.
This is not the answer...we should demand the current referee pool improve. There are consistently referees assigned to quality games that do not have a seasoned knowledge of the game at any higher level. They don't watch professional games that have professional refs (I'm talking England/Spain, etc....not MLS) making calls which our refs could learn from. Also learn a lot about handling players and coaches better.
The HS ref range can go anywhere between acceptable and clueless.
Don't ignore the program by asking for everyone to become be a ref, ask our current refs to improve. There is enormous room for improvement.
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Post by used2be on Jan 30, 2015 12:12:06 GMT -6
I think you are being a bit harsh re: the range of officiating.
IMO, the level of officials, just like players can vary from Quite Good to ouch.
The headscratchers for me this season have been some of the officials I generally think of as some of the better ones, not protecting the backs and ankles of the skilled players. I have spoken with several coaches that prefer not to post on forums re: this subject, and I think consensus is that it hasn't been a great year in terms of skilled player protection.
Of the officials I know, the majority are interested in getting things right and working to make sure they are as accurate as possible.
That being said, with the wide range of skill and training among the players, the high school game presents challenges that you might not see on the club or higher level.
And without question, fans or coaches yelling about a ref missing a call doesn't help. Frankly, based on the games I've seen this year across the state, I'm surprised there haven't been more instances of coaches being carded or fans being removed. At the end of the day, the National Federation is supposed to place a higher emphasis on good sportsmanship.
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Post by time2retire on Jan 30, 2015 14:31:53 GMT -6
Well, you can try and run circles around me, but I'd just go 2-footed into your leg, earning a foul ( maybe from Smee, Cards, or Time). Then as you lay on the ground crying in pain, I'd go touch the ball.seeing as you hadn't even scored 1 goal, much less 10, I'd win your challenge. in your dreams couse before you get there ive already maradone the ball and landed on your face with my stud score my ten goal while you lay there disfigured and take my money from your pocket and walk away like it wasn't me dribbling my diadora stop turn around and ask you if you want me to teach you how to play while you dig in your pocket for more money to pay me train you better ill change my mind and dribble away with a CR7 smurk on my face couse im old but im PRETTY
LOL
thank you for making me smile the best post of the cycle
I don't think happy can be much more disfigured. And if you're anything like CR7 you'd spend more time crying on the ground than scoring any goals.
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Post by happyjack on Jan 30, 2015 23:24:43 GMT -6
This is not the answer.we should demand the current referee pool improve. There are consistently referees assigned to quality games that do not have a seasoned knowledge of the game at any higher level. They don't watch professional games that have professional refs (I'm talking England/Spain, etc..not MLS) making calls which our refs could learn from. Also learn a lot about handling players and coaches better. Well, you can demand many things, (in fact, I demand Halle Berry return my phone calls)...but just demanding something doesn't work. It takes time and effort to improve officials, it won't happen overnight. At the LSA level we spend a lot of time and effort training. At the LHSAA level, there is an online course but nothing else. And there are way too many high school games That must be covered. I never knew knew just watching TV can make you a better referee. I guess since I watch EPL, and I follow the Spurs and Man City, I should be able to step on the pitch and replicate Aguerro or Kane...after all, I've watched them. I expect I'll be signing a contract any day now to make my debut! as far as asking others to step up and referee, we are always in need of more...there are more quality games than experienced officials to do them. Want to be critical of them, then by all means, step up and show us what you got. We welcome anyone and everyone. I need to to go now, my phone is ringing...I'm sure it's Halle answering my demand!
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Post by playwide on Feb 5, 2015 10:38:49 GMT -6
I guess the answer is, "Our referees are great, they are awesome, they need no improvement..."
Very cynical and jaded response above. I don't have time to referee because I am a Team Manager for two teams. One of which plays at the Regional level where we have seen top referees for 6 years in league/championship levels and have something to compare the local crews too. I have also spent time in England with US youth teams playing English Academy sides and have seen the job those referees do up close, and again compare the two skill sets.
I will leave this now, but if you really need to reach Halle let me know, we do business with her agent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 11:34:21 GMT -6
Biggest problem I see with the level of hs play is that there is way too much dribbling. Countless times I have seen players receive the ball and immediately turn and dribble into pressure. Most of the time because they either can't carry the ball with their heads up...or they think they have to win the game by themselves.
Compound the problem even further with 'part time' players going into reckless challenges with both feet or studs up and it becomes a nightmare for everyone involved. That's why so many games turn into a series of physical battles.
It takes a quality and experienced ref to be able to handle that scenario while maintaining control and composure. And frankly, your typical hs game ref isn't going to handle it to everyone's standards.
So in that sense, reffing a hs game brings it's own degree of difficulty...and unique challenges.
I've always wondered why the hs game was a lot more physical than decent club play. Hence why there's so much confusion on what is and isn't a foul.
Learning to deal with missed calls is part of the game at every level. Not managing a game equitably and safely is not acceptable.
I understand protecting the "skill" players...but it has to make sense.
Way too many times I've seen hard but fair challenges result in needless fouls and even cards just because a skilled player came in hard and clearly played the ball. Without dangerous intent or even recklessness.
It's a contact sport. It's not basketball.
An experienced ref should be able to tell the difference and manage the game accordingly.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Feb 5, 2015 11:42:07 GMT -6
I will agree about the dribbling. I actually got told by a parent that my daughter would be a better player if she held the ball longer. He said she passes it before the other team gets to her. He looked at me crazy when I said thank you. I considered that a compliment.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2015 11:46:35 GMT -6
I will agree about the dribbling. I actually got told by a parent that my daughter would be a better player if she held the ball longer. He said she passes it before the other team gets to her. He looked at me crazy when I said thank you. I considered that a compliment. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using proboards I hope she doesnt hold it longer than 6 seconds.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Feb 5, 2015 11:48:51 GMT -6
Wasn't in goal. She has a sprained and bruised wrist from getting kicked in goal- not intentional.
Speaking on which- didn't see that one called much in high school. I started counting and got to 15 on time using the Mississippi method.
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warrior16
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Post by warrior16 on Feb 5, 2015 11:59:03 GMT -6
I agree. Most players at the high school level hold the ball for far too long. There's almost never any need to take more than three touches with the ball unless you're sprinting with the ball through a large amount of open space.
When you watch teams that truly play a fast style, like St. Paul's and St. Louis, those players are always looking forward to find either an open teammate or an open space, and they rarely take longer than three touches to get rid of the ball.
That's not to say forcing a one or two-touch combination that isn't there is a good idea, but your teammates should constantly be moving around into open space.
We tell our boys to always keep it moving, even if it's a simple switch or backpass. Holding the ball for two long on one part of the field becomes predictable and makes you vulnerable to counterattacks.
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Post by smee on Feb 5, 2015 13:32:06 GMT -6
Quoting from Hall97
"Way too many times I've seen hard but fair challenges result in needless fouls and even cards just because a skilled player came in hard and clearly played the ball. Without dangerous intent or even recklessness.
It's a contact sport. It's not basketball."
HS soccer also has a huge problem compared with club soccer in that there can up to 6 years age difference out on the fields. A "fair" challenge between two 19 year olds suddenly "does not look right" when it is done on a 13 year old. IMHO, that is why "excessive force" is emphasized so much in the HS code. in fact, use of "unnecessary force against an opponent while playing the ball" is a red card offence. That makes a regular shoulder charge by a 19yo senior on a sixth grader almost impossible to perform legally.
Also, 12.4.1 specifically says a charge is only allowed as long as one foot remains on the ground and arms are held close to the body.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Feb 5, 2015 13:38:00 GMT -6
And the size difference is a big issue.... we have played schools where the smaller kids were straight arm pushing from back but not moving the person they were pushing. When they were bumped by larger player or even when they ran into larger player, they went flying. It looked like the larger player was being rough but in many instances they really weren't.
Then there's the problem of players using their size advantage in unsporting ways too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 14:44:35 GMT -6
Quoting from Hall97 "Way too many times I've seen hard but fair challenges result in needless fouls and even cards just because a skilled player came in hard and clearly played the ball. Without dangerous intent or even recklessness. It's a contact sport. It's not basketball." HS soccer also has a huge problem compared with club soccer in that there can up to 6 years age difference out on the fields. A "fair" challenge between two 19 year olds suddenly "does not look right" when it is done on a 13 year old. IMHO, that is why "excessive force" is emphasized so much in the HS code. in fact, use of "unnecessary force against an opponent while playing the ball" is a red card offence. That makes a regular shoulder charge by a 19yo senior on a sixth grader almost impossible to perform legally. Also, 12.4.1 specifically says a charge is only allowed as long as one foot remains on the ground and arms are held close to the body. Uh, 6 years age difference? You lost me there.
What about when it's a 15/16 yr old making a challenge on an 18 yr old? Should the same level of force (and logic from what I'm gathering) be applied?
If you are concerned about 7th/8th graders playing varsity soccer...then it shouldn't be allowed.
And what guidelines dictate "excessive force" anyway? Is it up to the individual ref? Any tackle that clearly plays the ball is a fair challenge. Unless the player making the challenge somehow intentionally follows through with malicious intent or is reckless.
Follow through contact on a slide tackle is NOT reckless play.
Which was the whole point of my earlier post. Just because a player makes a hard challenge doesn't make it a foul.
It's not the ref's decision to arbitrarily decide a senior can't make a legit challenge on a freshman. Just seems ridiculous.
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Post by barnacle13 on Feb 5, 2015 15:08:14 GMT -6
Follow through contact on a slide tackle is NOT reckless play.
Which was the whole point of my earlier post. Just because a player makes a hard challenge doesn't make it a foul. You'll never convince Little Johnny's parents of this fact, so the referees have to be wrong for not red carding the guy who showed skill and performed the well timed slide tackle? Right?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 15:22:20 GMT -6
Follow through contact on a slide tackle is NOT reckless play.
Which was the whole point of my earlier post. Just because a player makes a hard challenge doesn't make it a foul. You'll never convince Little Johnny's parents of this fact, so the referees have to be wrong for not red carding the guy who showed skill and performed the well timed slide tackle? Right? Exactly!
Maybe little johnny's parents should learn what a fair challenge is...I know...unrealistic.
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Post by barnacle13 on Feb 5, 2015 15:33:03 GMT -6
You'll never convince Little Johnny's parents of this fact, so the referees have to be wrong for not red carding the guy who showed skill and performed the well timed slide tackle? Right? Exactly!
Maybe little johnny's parents should learn what a fair challenge is.I know.unrealistic.
Usually if Little Johnny falls and no one can run out on the field to help him up, then it has to be a foul. The athletes get it, so why can't the parents. Now a two footed challenge I do have concern with, and have seen many. Wish the ref would show plastic for those sometimes when they don't. Those types of challenges tend to amp things up quickly.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Feb 5, 2015 16:50:15 GMT -6
Honestly I do have concerns about 7th graders (especially boys) playing varsity soccer mainly because of the size difference. I know there are some extremely skilled 7th graders out there and it can be problematic for smaller schools to field teams unless they can use these younger players. I think the potential for injury is too great. I can see allowing them in non-contact sports such as swimming, volleyball, track, and golf.
It's not as problematic for girls as they tend to grow and mature a little earlier so there isn't that much difference in size.
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