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Post by historian on Jan 30, 2015 13:32:59 GMT -6
What is humiliating to a team is not being played keep away to. What is humiliating is being told you do not deserve to be on the field with a team for a full eighty minutes. Last year when coaching at Comeaux we lost 8-0 to Acadiana while my starters were in playing against second and third stringers they were getting better. While those third stringers were playing a varsity team they were developing talent and team cohesion (several of them now start for Acadiana). Obviously nothing personal, we do not disagree often, my position is using the game as simulations, simulate a red card by playing a man or two down. Work on another formation, play players out of position, etc. Then after all of those simulations, the kids that should be in a game with an eight goal lead should not be concerned with scoring because, in my experience, they are concerned with proving they deserve more playing time. At Comeaux last year I had a forward who scored his first two varsity goals against Sam Houston, from that game he began getting a little bit more playing time (and confidence), and by this year (after having spoke to him last night), he has been a regular starter. He may have been a regular starter anyway, but giving him confidence, and him becoming a letterman last year definitely benefited him. You can't tell me that a fourteen year old freshman can not benefit from playing against 17 and 18 year olds even if they are not a "good player," or "good team."
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Post by time2retire on Jan 30, 2015 13:36:55 GMT -6
So if we only play half a game do we only pay half of the ref fee? I sure hope so. Would fans pay half admission? Would coaches get half their stipend?
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Post by wildcatsoccer on Jan 30, 2015 13:48:11 GMT -6
What is a stipend? I have lost money each year for the past 6 years coaching HS soccer. As far as a gate we lose almost $100 per game when we play both v/jv. Lucky to have 30-40 people come total. Now once again the sport all of us push to improve gets another crazy decision from LHSAA. Does not make sense to me. We have always been on the negative side of the score board and I still hate this rule. I still try and find coaching points during these matches. It hurts like heck to lose those games but we need all the game time we can get. I am not lucky enough to have club players or even rec players that play all year. I get 3 months to try and teach these guys to play and we all know that is not good.
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Post by popsoccer on Jan 30, 2015 13:49:00 GMT -6
If they try and cut the referees pay, no school would get referees for their games!
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Post by barnacle13 on Jan 30, 2015 13:50:24 GMT -6
Why wait til 8-0 to start working on real game issues, like playing a man down. Might pay off in a tougher match when you get that red for handling in the box. Start subbing in JV players at 3-0 or 5-0 up and give them the expectation that they maintain the clean sheet and dig in on defense. It'll pay off later. Just cause the game can be over after 40 minutes doesn't mean you have to make it so. I've watched games where 2 players were ejected from the same team. A blowout is a good time to work on the mechanic of that type of game. Just pull a couple players off and adjust your defense and attack. Keep away is demeaning. Push forward and only score on headers that are crossed in from a corner. Work on your long shots, nothing inside the box or must be 30 yards out to shoot. This rule isn't the end of 80 minute matches, even in the glaring mismatches can still go 80 if you truly challenge your team.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Jan 30, 2015 13:51:27 GMT -6
Would fans pay half admission? Would coaches get half their stipend? You have a point about the fans but not the coaches.. Why would I get half a stipend when it's just 40 minutes of a game? The season is 4-5 months long (at least for games) but there are year round duties and responsibilities I have to do that reflects a coaches pay. I don't get paid because of how many games I play (unlike refs who get paid for each game they officiate) it doesn't matter if I play 10 games or 20 games it is the same. Refs get paid on a game by game basis coaches do not. My point is you can't compare paying a ref to paying a coach. But hey that's just my opinion.
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Post by smee on Jan 30, 2015 13:55:27 GMT -6
I am wondering what a hit to programs the concession stand losses could be: if a game is called at halftime, then people would head home, rather than buy a hot chocolate / hot dog etc.
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Post by barnacle13 on Jan 30, 2015 13:59:22 GMT -6
I am wondering what a hit to programs the concession stand losses could be: if a game is called at halftime, then people would head home, rather than buy a hot chocolate / hot dog etc. I think the coaches can control this if they want to. Some will definitely opt for the first half blowout and be done at 40 minutes, but the smart ones will use the second half or 3/4 of the game to develop younger players, rest their starters, work on plays they want to implement on set pieces, work on man down strategies, etc. Then you get 80 minutes (or slightly less) of play easily and the concessions aren't impacted.
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Post by methuselah on Jan 30, 2015 14:02:58 GMT -6
I really don't have a problem with this rule. Heck, if it gets dominant teams to pull their starters a little earlier to either sub in jv players or play a man or two down, it might just save an injury to a starting player here or there. And it should save a little wear and tear on players, especially ones who play year round and give some younger ones little game time.
If a coach beating a team 6 or 7 to nothing wants the game to go longer to work on something in particular, he can still do it under this scenario. Just don't keep piling up the goals.
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Post by 0coachchris0 on Jan 30, 2015 14:09:21 GMT -6
I am wondering what a hit to programs the concession stand losses could be: if a game is called at halftime, then people would head home, rather than buy a hot chocolate / hot dog etc. I think the coaches can control this if they want to. Some will definitely opt for the first half blowout and be done at 40 minutes, but the smart ones will use the second half or 3/4 of the game to develop younger players, rest their starters, work on plays they want to implement on set pieces, work on man down strategies, etc. Then you get 80 minutes (or slightly less) of play easily and the concessions aren't impacted. They certainly can control it...and can control it without a mercy rule in place. I just don't like unnecessary rules. The vast, vast majority of players and coaches police themselves. It's much better for the sport to police itself than to make a big billboard (a.k.a. mercy rule) that says we can't police ourselves.
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Post by kahnman on Jan 30, 2015 14:12:38 GMT -6
The amount of 7-0 scores next year will be an interesting thing to watch.
Will there be coaches who "score an own goal" to mak it 8-1 at half, only to keep playing?
I think we open up these possibilities, and thus, don't like the rule.
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Post by historian on Jan 30, 2015 14:35:07 GMT -6
Why wait til 8-0 to start working on real game issues, like playing a man down. Might pay off in a tougher match when you get that red for handling in the box. Start subbing in JV players at 3-0 or 5-0 up and give them the expectation that they maintain the clean sheet and dig in on defense. It'll pay off later. Just cause the game can be over after 40 minutes doesn't mean you have to make it so. I've watched games where 2 players were ejected from the same team. A blowout is a good time to work on the mechanic of that type of game. Just pull a couple players off and adjust your defense and attack. Keep away is demeaning. Push forward and only score on headers that are crossed in from a corner. Work on your long shots, nothing inside the box or must be 30 yards out to shoot. This rule isn't the end of 80 minute matches, even in the glaring mismatches can still go 80 if you truly challenge your team. Trust me there is no magic score when all of this starts. I do not wait until 8-0 to do it, and quite honestly it would have not impacted any of my games this year, as our coaching staff never allowed it to get to an eight goal margin. As I previously stated, it goes beyond soccer, it goes to do we want to be a major sport or not? Imagine a team pays and takes a bus from Lafayette to Lake Charles ($712 I think is what we paid this year), parents and other spectators drive to the game and pay an admission, referees go to the game, parents at the concession stand decide to cook a gumbo to sell, and one team keeps getting the ball and just can not seem to hold onto it, they concede one score, then another, then another, and so on, and after a 50 point lead (because it is a football game - see how i threw that in?) the referees decide to call the game. This scenario would never happen. The High School I work at won a district game 77-14 a few years back. Heck Acadiana won the football state title 77-42 last year. Would the game at the Superdome stand to be called if they had played a little better defense and a mercy rule was on the books? Lets face it. Rules like this one were overwhelmingly approved because we play in the winter. I have had principals in the past (not any of my current ones), who have asked me not to schedule games during thanksgiving and winter breaks because they go hunting at that time. They have told me they love going to our games but its just so cold. I would love to just simply propose a mercy rule in football and make it 50 points which will be less likely then a 8-0 soccer game and see how overwhelmingly it fails. I know it is a hypothetical, but if anyone does not think the vote went the way it did because we are soccer and a winter sport, then you are extremely mistaken. We could not even get the power ratings released on time this week despite the fact that basketball came out as scheduled.
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Post by steveg on Jan 30, 2015 23:01:36 GMT -6
I'm not all that familiar with how things work here. From reading these comments, and i agree with almost all of you that this is a bad idea, that the principals vote? How informed are their decisions? Do they understand the issue, the game, the negative consequences of such a decision?
I really can't believe that someone who loves and understands the game of soccer would support this.
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elmaestro
Bench Warmer
Been playing Balonpie since 1969
Posts: 15
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Post by elmaestro on Jan 31, 2015 7:03:07 GMT -6
1- its match manipulation and in soccer is illegal and the LHSAA can and will get penalized for it from national in the long run
2- you should never change the flow of your offense
3- and we want to grow strong men. what are we teaching our children in football go hit somebody but in soccer OH NO you have to go easy on the other opponent couse their coach cant teach them how to play defense we have two 8th graders on our defense and no one this year has put more then 4 on us so far it aint to say that we might get blown out tomorrow but if we do I would like to still have a chance to try and never give up
4- in what world do principals now anything about soccer there admin workers WOW why aren't the coaches making this vote there the ones directly involve in the game
5- way to teach our children killer mentality the games are getting rougher and rougher but no LETS BE SOFT
6-your teaching our children that is OK to GIVE UP. no way that's not what sports any sport is about GO OUT THERE AND FIGHT is what we should be teaching our children
its sound to me that because soccer is not a big money maker YET its ok to give up
this is and LHSAA COMON MAN moment
IMO yall should had never even tought about this its illegal and somewhere down the road will cost you in ticket sales attendance food and beverage sales good one
LET HURT A CRIPLING GAME SOME MORE
yeah USA is going to win lots of world cup if we start implementing this kind of rules at this level
im beside myself
IF YOU CANT STOP US WHY IS THAT OUR FAULT WORK HARDED THAN THE NEXT GUY HAVE YOUR PARENTS HELP ON THE OFF SEASON
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Post by Chalmetteowl on Jan 31, 2015 9:09:38 GMT -6
Why wait til 8-0 to start working on real game issues, like playing a man down. Might pay off in a tougher match when you get that red for handling in the box. Start subbing in JV players at 3-0 or 5-0 up and give them the expectation that they maintain the clean sheet and dig in on defense. It'll pay off later. Just cause the game can be over after 40 minutes doesn't mean you have to make it so. I've watched games where 2 players were ejected from the same team. A blowout is a good time to work on the mechanic of that type of game. Just pull a couple players off and adjust your defense and attack. Keep away is demeaning. Push forward and only score on headers that are crossed in from a corner. Work on your long shots, nothing inside the box or must be 30 yards out to shoot. This rule isn't the end of 80 minute matches, even in the glaring mismatches can still go 80 if you truly challenge your team. Trust me there is no magic score when all of this starts. I do not wait until 8-0 to do it, and quite honestly it would have not impacted any of my games this year, as our coaching staff never allowed it to get to an eight goal margin. As I previously stated, it goes beyond soccer, it goes to do we want to be a major sport or not? Imagine a team pays and takes a bus from Lafayette to Lake Charles ($712 I think is what we paid this year), parents and other spectators drive to the game and pay an admission, referees go to the game, parents at the concession stand decide to cook a gumbo to sell, and one team keeps getting the ball and just can not seem to hold onto it, they concede one score, then another, then another, and so on, and after a 50 point lead (because it is a football game - see how i threw that in?) the referees decide to call the game. This scenario would never happen. The High School I work at won a district game 77-14 a few years back. Heck Acadiana won the football state title 77-42 last year. Would the game at the Superdome stand to be called if they had played a little better defense and a mercy rule was on the books? Lets face it. Rules like this one were overwhelmingly approved because we play in the winter. I have had principals in the past (not any of my current ones), who have asked me not to schedule games during thanksgiving and winter breaks because they go hunting at that time. They have told me they love going to our games but its just so cold. I would love to just simply propose a mercy rule in football and make it 50 points which will be less likely then a 8-0 soccer game and see how overwhelmingly it fails. I know it is a hypothetical, but if anyone does not think the vote went the way it did because we are soccer and a winter sport, then you are extremely mistaken. We could not even get the power ratings released on time this week despite the fact that basketball came out as scheduled. a football mercy rule might pass if it was brought up... i know other states have it
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Post by copakid14 on Jan 31, 2015 9:36:13 GMT -6
Most of the games where this comes into play are shorter halves anyway. I don't agree with the mercy rule but there are a lot of games being played 20 and 30 minute halves. Coaches just need to manage the time a little different now.
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Post by Scott Crawford on Jan 31, 2015 12:18:13 GMT -6
The mercy rule was long overdue, thanks to coaches who thought 10-0 and higher scores are acceptable.
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Post by chelsea007 on Jan 31, 2015 12:34:52 GMT -6
It is poor form on the coach imo. Running up a scoreline is classless in my book. I know the girls are looking for scholarships and from that point I guess stats matter, but talk about misleading. Through ball after through ball, goal after goal...where is the player development? In short, if we as coaches would have put in more thought as to the growth of the sport by doing the smart thing (also the right thing imo), this rule wouldn't be needed. It is a poor commentary on our ranks. Just my thoughts though.
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Post by 0coachchris0 on Feb 1, 2015 9:08:20 GMT -6
It is poor form on the coach imo. Running up a scoreline is classless in my book. I know the girls are looking for scholarships and from that point I guess stats matter, but talk about misleading. Through ball after through ball, goal after goal.where is the player development? In short, if we as coaches would have put in more thought as to the growth of the sport by doing the smart thing (also the right thing imo), this rule wouldn't be needed. It is a poor commentary on our ranks. Just my thoughts though. I agree completely, but would rather there have been some effort to educate and counsel/punish rather than enact a mercy rule that says we are unable to plice ourselves.
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Post by deobserver on Feb 1, 2015 10:05:36 GMT -6
On these freezing nights there will be a lot of 8-0 results. They have been doing this in Florida since I have been playing and there have never been any issues. Honestly it's not that big of deal there. You get nothing out of a game that you can win by more than 7 or 8 goals before you even started that game. In Florida some coaches came up to you and ask you to lengthen the game. So we did. Starters hardly played. Also if you have an 8-0 team on your schedule other than district something is wrong. Finally those outrageous stats of kids scoring 40+ goals in a season because they score 20 against lesser opponents will be gone. Everyone will be fine in a couple years.
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