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Post by bobbyshmurda on Dec 22, 2015 18:41:40 GMT -6
Before everybody freaks out, yes I am about to ROAST the LHSAA. Knowing the way things go I'm sure this thread will be removed immediately because they don't wanna hear the truth. It's okay because I will keep posting it until my message is clear. So here's my issue- before I say this, I'm sure someone will come back with a "it's not like this in just Louisiana". this is Louisiana, YOUR state don't try to bring up others. But anyways: all Louisiana soccer players are only allowed to play and train with their current highschool team with the exception of Disney showcase tournament or other showcases held during Christmas break. But why? What harm is there for a kid to go play in an adult league indoor or outdoor just to get some extra touches on the ball? The answer is none but to you people, you're worried about other teams having unfair advantages over others because those kids would have extra training. What you're worried about is a meaningless state title that your team probably won't win anyways. If you care that much about a stupid trophy then fine, so be it. But for those who want to improve their game and realize highschool soccer means NOTHING, you're holding them back and you know it. Louisiana has maybe 2 or 3 legit high level players come out every year, and they are all worshiped over their accomplishments in a league that has no relevance to college and pro team coaches when they are scouting. By playing at such a low level week after week, they are weakening their game. The kids who want to make it out there and can make It out there know. They know what it takes, and they know they need extra work because highschool soccer is rubbish. So quit interfering with an individual's dream and desire to work and improve their game just because you want your team, that probably will have 0 players play at the next level, to win a meaningless title in a low level league. Let the kids play, let them improve their game. And lastly I know this calls out teams and not really the LHSAA but this statement does. Your an athletic association. How could you possibly tell me you're okay with preventing YOUR athletes from getting better and the sport YOU organize? YOU take away the extra time they want to use to get better, and because they can't develop as much as they could in a 5 month period. That's 5 months of improvement down the drain. Just think about it before you worry about a trophy in probably the nations worst soccer state.
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Post by scag19 on Dec 22, 2015 18:48:53 GMT -6
I agree. I think it is stupid to get in the way of players development. Every coach on this website should agree with what you said
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Post by loJic on Dec 22, 2015 19:44:42 GMT -6
Tarbell will probably go pro I hear ya. It's a dead horse worth beating at times.
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Post by drogba on Dec 22, 2015 20:02:25 GMT -6
Without agreeing or disagreeing obviously the more a kid can train the better. Proper training. However I know a kid from LA that did mls club id camp this summer got asked to sign and to move to that city but no provisions for housing or school??? So high school kid and that would be a great chance for any kid but the US and MLS really is not set up yet to give that kid the proper chance. So definitely issues within LHSAA and LA club soccer but they are not the only guilty parties. Many things can improve.
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Post by time2retire on Dec 22, 2015 20:10:39 GMT -6
Jason Kreis?
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Post by drogba on Dec 22, 2015 20:18:42 GMT -6
That is not the kid I was talking about and I don't want to name because obviously that becomes a question of money and schooling for a family at that point. But great kid from a great family it is just a very hard dream to pursue. I think to blame LHSAA for the issue is taking a very narrow view of the problem?
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Post by loJic on Dec 22, 2015 20:26:14 GMT -6
That is not the kid I was talking about and I don't want to name because obviously that becomes a question of money and schooling for a family at that point. But great kid from a great family it is just a very hard dream to pursue. I think to blame LHSAA for the issue is taking a very narrow view of the problem? I think he was saying Kreis was a pro. There have been a few. Jason Garey, Anthony Peters, Justin Portillo, Jared Montz, Joseph Lapira, Matt Millet, etc...
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warrior16
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Post by warrior16 on Dec 22, 2015 22:36:46 GMT -6
Josh Henderson and Danny Owens from the 1994 Bishop Sullivan state championship team (our only title to date) also played professionally in what is now the NASL. Hopefully Mitchell Williams will join them in a few years as the third former Warrior to play professional soccer.
But yeah, your point still stands. We can count all the Louisiana men to play professionally on a couple hands. Looks like Andrew Tarbell will go pro soon, though. Expect an MLS team that needs a new keeper to be all over him when the draft rolls around soon.
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Post by methuselah on Dec 23, 2015 4:00:09 GMT -6
Before everybody freaks out, yes I am about to ROAST the LHSAA. Knowing the way things go I'm sure this thread will be removed immediately because they don't wanna hear the truth. It's okay because I will keep posting it until my message is clear. So here's my issue- before I say this, I'm sure someone will come back with a "it's not like this in just Louisiana". this is Louisiana, YOUR state don't try to bring up others. But anyways: all Louisiana soccer players are only allowed to play and train with their current highschool team with the exception of Disney showcase tournament or other showcases held during Christmas break. But why? What harm is there for a kid to go play in an adult league indoor or outdoor just to get some extra touches on the ball? The answer is none but to you people, you're worried about other teams having unfair advantages over others because those kids would have extra training. What you're worried about is a meaningless state title that your team probably won't win anyways. If you care that much about a stupid trophy then fine, so be it. But for those who want to improve their game and realize highschool soccer means NOTHING, you're holding them back and you know it. Louisiana has maybe 2 or 3 legit high level players come out every year, and they are all worshiped over their accomplishments in a league that has no relevance to college and pro team coaches when they are scouting. By playing at such a low level week after week, they are weakening their game. The kids who want to make it out there and can make It out there know. They know what it takes, and they know they need extra work because highschool soccer is rubbish. So quit interfering with an individual's dream and desire to work and improve their game just because you want your team, that probably will have 0 players play at the next level, to win a meaningless title in a low level league. Let the kids play, let them improve their game. And lastly I know this calls out teams and not really the LHSAA but this statement does. Your an athletic association. How could you possibly tell me you're okay with preventing YOUR athletes from getting better and the sport YOU organize? YOU take away the extra time they want to use to get better, and because they can't develop as much as they could in a 5 month period. That's 5 months of improvement down the drain. Just think about it before you worry about a trophy in probably the nations worst soccer state. Holy Wall-O-Text Batman! I think for the vast majority of players, high school ball is very rewarding and provides a great environment and the ability to play for their school, make life-long friends, play before more (and more passionate) fans and wear the school colors. I bet most would never play at that age if high school ball didn't exist. If some want to play year round club ball, and it is in their interest, can't they just forego high school ball and concentrate on club or some developmental organization?
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Post by snoopy1 on Dec 23, 2015 8:02:46 GMT -6
LHSAA is but a small part of the problem. Change will come when the parents (and school administrators) demand change. The biggest improvement we can make in LA is to figure out how to get more minorities involved, as we are blessed with athletic talent. Just having LSU and the SEC add soccer to their men's sports would do more to enhance future LA soccer stars than reforming the LHSAA. Todays LA youth soccer players have a better chance to go pro than those before them and the kids to come will have a better chance than those playing now. of course there is always room for improvement and the day will come when changes will be made in the LHSAA regarding soccer.
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Post by onframe on Dec 23, 2015 8:57:28 GMT -6
I'm with you "roasting the LHSAA" as you say but you did a poor job of it; I was really hoping for more. Good players will be on the right radars regardless of whether they play HS soccer or what school they play for. Their performance with their school team in Louisiana or any other state is secondary to whatever club and/or odp exposure they get. Most kids want to play for their school because that's a part of being a teenager and BMOC and its a great experience for them. The implication the short-sighted policies of the LHSAA play a part in hampering pro soccer prospects from Louisiana is certainly a worthy discussion point but the good ones will rise to the top and get noticed regardless. That said, I agree, to keep HS players from training or playing with their club teams during the school season smacks of the small minds involved in most every aspect of Louisiana leadership. Club soccer kids playing on school teams with less informed coaches probably suffer more from the lay off than others. But, kids/parents don't generally choose a high school based on the soccer team. Also keep in mind that school AD's are generally uninformed of the soccer landscape and don't pay enough attention to the soccer programs to know that they need to apply pressure for change by the LHSAA.
As Snoopy touched on, Title IX and the lack of SEC soccer has more of a detrimental impact on the universal acceptance of soccer and, therefore, more rational policies than the LHSAA itself.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Dec 23, 2015 12:18:59 GMT -6
Both the club/recreational system and high school system and college system are all responsible for the lack of proper soccer development in this state and in other states. One, they restrict the players too much with their rules that sometimes are based off of antiquated American traditional sports models, not soccer. Two, they limit the amount of competition so players only get game time at certain times of the year. Three, they limit enthusiasm for the game and require huge financial requirements that keep the underprivileged from playing the game due to it being too costly.
In other countries, there are things called clubs, associations, where people privately join. Now this sounds like what we have here in this state and in the rest of the country, but our clubs are just a roster for different age groups to carry teams. What I mean by clubs, is it is a city or regional center for not only soccer, but exercise, commerce, and other sports as well as soccer that is paid for not by the city or state governments, but by private citizens and club members. They associate with one another for a common cause, to compete against other associations. These teams may be paid to play as the success of the club determines how fans show up for matches and generate revenues for their clubs through ticket sales and food and drink sales at the game. Competitions are through out the year at all age levels and the emphasis is on players competing for roster spots all through the season, not just at the preseason tryout. If a player doesn't cut the mustard, he can be replaced at any time. Then after these clubs teams are filled out, there can be interclub competitions throughout the year where only those in the club get to compete with one another.
Think of the name "soccer." It is an England derived word that discriminates between rugby football from association football. Soccer, or the term association, means voluntary choosing who wants to hang out or be a part of with. In politics, the libertarian party calls for freedom of association and abhors the use of force. Government force was seen in segregation, where people were told they could not associate with one another, to integration, which is government force that says you must associate with others. Libertarians believe you can freely choose who you associate with and do not associate with. That is the essence of a club. In Liverpool, you can join Everton or Liverpool. It is your choice. Associationism is voluntary choice.
From the club comes all the things players need to develop. It is does not come from the LHSAA. FIFA rules always apply in Association Football.
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Post by loJic on Dec 23, 2015 15:59:09 GMT -6
Until people see that college soccer isn't the only way to the pros then we'll always be stuck with a system that produces college players and not pros.
Also, until people quit babying 16 year olds who are dominating the youth level, we will continue to have babied college level players hoping to go pro.
I get it, it's the american dream for all kids to go to college. And being that college is the developmental system for other american sports it is somehow engraved in our brains that this too must be the path for soccer. Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Eden Hazard were phenomenal college playe........errrr......I mean, wait...they didn't go to college? Oh.......well then. Landon Donovan, Michael Bradley, DeMarcus Beasely and Tim Howard were phenomenal college pla..............what's that?.........oh, they didn't go to college either?. huh!
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Post by kevin on Dec 23, 2015 16:33:26 GMT -6
I get it, it's the american dream for all kids to go to college. And being that college is the developmental system for other american sports it is somehow engraved in our brains that this too must be the path for soccer. Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Eden Hazard were phenomenal college playe....errrr..I mean, wait.they didn't go to college? Oh...well then. Landon Donovan, Michael Bradley, DeMarcus Beasely and Tim Howard were phenomenal college pla......what's that?...oh, they didn't go to college either?. huh! I just looked up the info on the 2014 USMNT World Cup roster. 7 foreign-raised players, 5 US-raised players who didn't play any college soccer, and 11 US-raised players who played at least a year or two of college soccer. Believe me, I have plenty of criticisms of NCAA soccer. But it's misleading to act like college soccer is a dead end and to ignore the fact the majority of our American-born players come from the college system. If you turn pro at 18, you are always one injury away from the end of your career. And let's face it: an American soccer player is not going to get a LeBron James-type multimillion dollar contract straight out of high school. The MLS starting salary is less than the dollar value of tuition, room, and board at a good private university. If you get injured in college, at least you'll probably be able to stay on scholarship and finish your degree. And as you said, college is the American dream. If some smart, upper-middle class kid (and let's face it, that's what so many of our good soccer players are) says "Nah, I don't want to go to college, I'm going to turn pro instead," I don't think his parents would take it too well.
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Post by soccernation95 on Dec 23, 2015 17:30:22 GMT -6
For kids nowadays what would be another way to make it to the professional level besides going throughout college first?
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Post by loJic on Dec 23, 2015 17:35:58 GMT -6
I get it, it's the american dream for all kids to go to college. And being that college is the developmental system for other american sports it is somehow engraved in our brains that this too must be the path for soccer. Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Eden Hazard were phenomenal college playe..errrr..I mean, wait.they didn't go to college? Oh.well then. Landon Donovan, Michael Bradley, DeMarcus Beasely and Tim Howard were phenomenal college pla..what's that?.oh, they didn't go to college either?. huh! I just looked up the info on the 2014 USMNT World Cup roster. 7 foreign-raised players, 5 US-raised players who didn't play any college soccer, and 11 US-raised players who played at least a year or two of college soccer. Believe me, I have plenty of criticisms of NCAA soccer. But it's misleading to act like college soccer is a dead end and to ignore the fact the majority of our American-born players come from the college system. If you turn pro at 18, you are always one injury away from the end of your career. And let's face it: an American soccer player is not going to get a LeBron James-type multimillion dollar contract straight out of high school. The MLS starting salary is less than the dollar value of tuition, room, and board at a good private university. If you get injured in college, at least you'll probably be able to stay on scholarship and finish your degree. And as you said, college is the American dream. If some smart, upper-middle class kid (and let's face it, that's what so many of our good soccer players are) says "Nah, I don't want to go to college, I'm going to turn pro instead," I don't think his parents would take it too well. As a parent, that's how I'd react. Trust me, as much as I poke fun at the american mind frame my daughter's future definitely has education as a must. However, as a someone who went back to college at the age of 27, I don't think it's all or nothing for these young players. If you're 16-18 and you and your supporting cast believe you can go pro then why not try? Why is it an all or nothing thing? College doesn't have an age limit. To be honest there are pros who actually take classes while being pros. Not unheard of. And until I see kids begging for a "insert american college based player" Barcelona/Man U/Real Madrid/Bayern Munich jersey, then college is not the answer for development. Brian McBride, Oguchi Onyewu, Clint Dempsey and Stu Holden are the only names you can say, besides a few keepers, who were champions league caliber players who dipped into the college system. That's 4 players out the 100,000 who have played college ball in the last 15 years. Kevin, we can go very deep into this subject. It has too many layers to have a leisure conversation. Maybe over a drink sometime.
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Post by loJic on Dec 23, 2015 17:39:42 GMT -6
For kids nowadays what would be another way to make it to the professional level besides going throughout college first? As an american? Not many options other than your parents spending boat loads of money. MLS academies graduate a very very low percentage in to their senior teams.
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Post by agsurfer on Dec 23, 2015 17:44:43 GMT -6
Here's a novel idea, as parents, stop promoting LSU, ULL, whichever SEC school you like as the school they need to go to. We parents need to drop the infatuation with in state/SEC schools and start bringing our players/kids to college and pro soccer games. We want to encourage our players to look beyond HS soccer, but this will not happen when at birth they are dressed in LSU clothing and constantly told there is no school like LSU. I cannot count the number of times I have heard parents cheering on the sidelines of their child's soccer match, only to find out it was because they were listening to a football game and someone scored. Or players asking for the score of the LSU football game while they are on the field playing a match. We parents need to stop reinforcing the notion soccer is less important than a football game. Also, we need to stop saying they won't make any money playing pro soccer. All NFL players, up to the mid eighties, had a job in the off season to supplement their football salary. How many college or pro football games have we turned off so we can watch a MLS or European soccer game with or kid/s?
We can point fingers all day long at ODP, LHSAA and Club teams, but remember there are three fingers pointing right back at us. When we change our attitudes and beliefs it will have a profound affect on how our kids perceive their sport of soccer.
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warrior16
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Post by warrior16 on Dec 23, 2015 18:01:49 GMT -6
For kids nowadays what would be another way to make it to the professional level besides going throughout college first? As an american? Not many options other than your parents spending boat loads of money. MLS academies graduate a very very low percentage in to their senior teams. In general, yes, but there are some MLS teams that, despite the MLS academy system being less than 10 years old have done a great job of integrating academy players into the senior team. FC Dallas, in particular have done a great job developing players rather than buying them, and at one point more than half of their starting lineup this season was composed of FCD academy products. Don't be surprised if Oscar Pareja lands a job with US Soccer in the near future. New York Red Bulls and LA Galaxy also have good academies. I know it's not what we need it to be yet, but I tend to cut the MLS academy system some slack, seeing as it's in its infancy. Maybe in 10 years I'll be critical of it, if it's not producing the players we need.
At least MLS academies are free now for the best prospects (except DC United, and even they will pay for players like Andy Najar that deserve it). We're just now beginning to see the first generation of these academy products becoming professionals, so I can't be too cynical yet. There are some signs to be positive about.
The Red Bulls reserves beat the Chelsea first team over the summer, and the Timbers reserves beat Newcastle United. Matt Miazga, a Red Bulls academy product, looks on the way to the Premier League, as well.
www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/12/23/new-york-red-bulls-add-league-leading-homegrown-haul-chris-thorsheim-mael-corboz
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Post by lebeaujeu on Dec 23, 2015 18:41:33 GMT -6
We've been lobbying our Alma Mater (unsuccessfully) about starting a DI men's soccer program (yes, I know DI is not the only path out there). The options for young men who want to play are limited, and many start weighing the cost/benefit of going out of state and choose to forego soccer. If Louisiana had a Division I team, I believe they could recruit top players from the state (who could also receive TOPS) as well as out of state recruits and soon become competitive. Do LA soccer associations have any relationships with the athletic departments of LA universities to discuss the opportunity? A state based program would attract more kids to the sport and in turn develop more potential recruits. But for now, our son continues to contact out of state coaches, ensure he makes the grades to supplement any potential athletic money with academic money in order to continue to play the game he loves.
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