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Post by sokerfan on Jan 26, 2016 11:09:35 GMT -6
Make the playoffs and your coach can choose where he gets officials from. You might wind up figuring the Lafayette guys aren't so bad after all. I believe they are good refs, the problem with a few of them is "they believe" they are really good. Most say they are by the book, but interpretation is in the eyes of the reader. And the Power is in mouth of the one with the whistle.
Example: if time can be added for made goals, and certain refs will swear they "always" add time, I say "Bull****". And I have proven some wrong, because on a freezing night in a blowout game, they "NEVER" add time for goals scored, or substitutions like they say they do for close competitive games.
And if refs don't want to decide the outcome of games, then why is time added when a corner kick is awarded but regulation has expired and a minute per goal has gone. But time is not called when the ball is being retrieved for the corner. You may not think that is fair to the team who is to take the kick, but how is that fair to the team who has to defend the kick. What if the ball is sent in and there is a great save and the ball bounces around and hits 3 people and goes in. Who was that fair for? And did they just decide the outcome by letting the kick take place?
Is it fair to the girls that bust their tails for 80 plus minutes to have it come down to a decision by someone who can decide how much time they want to add, just because they want to? Even in the Pros they let you know how much time is added before the end of regulation. No one to answer to in high school soccer, thus all the power.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 26, 2016 13:12:22 GMT -6
Make the playoffs and your coach can choose where he gets officials from. You might wind up figuring the Lafayette guys aren't so bad after all. I believe they are good refs, the problem with a few of them is "they believe" they are really good. Most say they are by the book, but interpretation is in the eyes of the reader. And the Power is in mouth of the one with the whistle.
Example: if time can be added for made goals, and certain refs will swear they "always" add time, I say "Bull****". And I have proven some wrong, because on a freezing night in a blowout game, they "NEVER" add time for goals scored, or substitutions like they say they do for close competitive games.
And if refs don't want to decide the outcome of games, then why is time added when a corner kick is awarded but regulation has expired and a minute per goal has gone. But time is not called when the ball is being retrieved for the corner. You may not think that is fair to the team who is to take the kick, but how is that fair to the team who has to defend the kick. What if the ball is sent in and there is a great save and the ball bounces around and hits 3 people and goes in. Who was that fair for? And did they just decide the outcome by letting the kick take place?
Is it fair to the girls that bust their tails for 80 plus minutes to have it come down to a decision by someone who can decide how much time they want to add, just because they want to? Even in the Pros they let you know how much time is added before the end of regulation. No one to answer to in high school soccer, thus all the power.
Ok, I'll bite. Here it is directly from the NFHS Rules book. Oh, and by the way, I held up fingers to indicated the time remaining in each half (I also verbally counted down the final 10 seconds of the first half while they were taking and defending the corner kick, hard to see or hear from the stands). I'm sorry, but on my teaching salary, I cannot afford the fancy electronic display boards. Now if you would like to donate one?? www.proreferee.com/electronic-boards/ Although I'm not sure who would hold it or operate it, HOWEVER, it would be easier to see from the stands. Unfortunately, that may be another reason to stop the clock? NFHS Soccer Rules (Pretty interesting read) Page 37 Rule 7 The Duration of the Game SECTION 4 TIME-OUT AND IN ART. 1 . The clock shall be stopped for an injury, for a penalty kick, for cautioning (yellow card), for disqualifications (red card), following the scoring of a goal and when a referee orders the clock be stopped. ART. 2 . The clock shall be restarted when the ball is properly put into play. Page 33 Rule 5 The Officials ART. 2 . The head referee or center referee shall: a. determine whether a goal shall count if the officials disagree; b. have the authority to terminate a game when stated rule and conditions warrant; c. decide matters upon which the timer(s) or scorer(s) disagree; d. at the end of each half, check and approve the score; e. have the authority to suspend play or terminate the game whenever the elements, spectators or other causes require; (7-1-3) f. keep time and score of game when no other means are available; g. have the power to make decisions on any point not specifically covered in the rules; h. confirm or overrule the assistant referees' signals (diagonal system of control only); i. instruct the timer to correct the clock, when necessary. Listen, I'm not saying I'm perfect or even "really good" for that matter. I just go out there and do the best I can, under the circumstances provided, based on the information and training I have. A lot of people complain, but there don't seem to be a lot of us out there taking the risk of not being perfect. BTW, I'd love to get paid to do this job from the stands, then I could see everything and never have to run! Thank you for your time! Cards PS. I didn't make up g. above under Rule 5, but a pretty interesting play on your words sokerfan .
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Post by sokerfan on Jan 26, 2016 14:00:57 GMT -6
cardsinhand, you are one of the best in our area, I truly believe that. I have to ask though, if we can get a copy of the video will you and your AR watch it and apologize if you were wrong not making the call? I will if I am wrong? Not only in person but on this site for everyone to be able to read.
Rules must have been written by REFS, go figure. Are you sure about not having anything to do with rule g. Lol!!
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Post by legna on Jan 26, 2016 14:07:17 GMT -6
cardsinhand, you are one of the best in our area, I truly believe that. I have to ask though, if we can get a copy of the video will you and your AR watch it and apologize if you were wrong not making the call? I will if I am wrong? Not only in person but on this site for everyone to be able to read. Rules must have been written by REFS, go figure. Are you sure about not having anything to do with rule g. Lol! This is totally inappropriate! Unless a ref INTENTIONALLY makes a bad call, they have nothing to apologize for.
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Post by sokerfan on Jan 26, 2016 14:17:52 GMT -6
They aren't perfect, everyone makes mistakes. I am just asking to admit if he was wrong. What's wrong with that? I will accept through a person email on this site if panties are going to get in a knot. Sorry legna, didn't mean to make anyone CAPITALIZE words about this matter.
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Post by barbedad20 on Jan 26, 2016 14:30:27 GMT -6
So can someone describe what happened last night??? Did Acadians score in extra time for the win??? Or did something else HAPPEN?? (Don't know why, but I felt like I needed to capitalize that!!)
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Post by time2retire on Jan 26, 2016 14:32:22 GMT -6
In addition to what cardsinhand gave you above.... If a district wanted time to be official on the scoreboard, and provided trained operators, I'd be all for it. This takes every question about time or timing out of the referee's hands. So when your team takes a shot that beats the keeper, then the horn sounds, then the ball crosses the line, you'll completely understand why the goal (righteously) does not count. In the opinion of this referee, the clock being visible or not makes no difference. When you accept a game, you agree to the rules of competition. Those rules clearly state how to manage time. In HS, when my clock hits 00:00, the whistle blows. I've killed plays on corner kicks and maybe even a breakaway. One mom even started a thread to whine about it once. But I make the time no secret, at all. I try to give 2 mins, 1 min, 30 secs, and 10 seconds with countdown. The clock should never be a secret and should be exact in HS because there is no concept of "added time". Do not confuse clock management with HS and club, because they are very different. HS I listed why above. In club, that number you see on the board (example: 2) means a minimum of, so a referee has between 2:00 and 2:59. An entire minute to work with. You don't have that in HS. p_malinich can tell you the difference it makes, as he moved from Louisiana to a state with visible clocks properly managed.
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Post by legna on Jan 26, 2016 14:40:34 GMT -6
So can someone describe what happened last night??? Did Acadians score in extra time for the win??? Or did something else HAPPEN?? (Don't know why, but I felt like I needed to capitalize that!) Here is what happened. Lafayette lost, so it's the clock, or a no call, or...
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Post by time2retire on Jan 26, 2016 15:10:20 GMT -6
cardsinhand, you are one of the best in our area, I truly believe that. I have to ask though, if we can get a copy of the video will you and your AR watch it and apologize if you were wrong not making the call? I will if I am wrong? Not only in person but on this site for everyone to be able to read. Rules must have been written by REFS, go figure. Are you sure about not having anything to do with rule g. Lol! HS rules are written by a national committee comprised of 1/3 each - refs, administrators, and coaches. What point are you trying to make? That referees make mistakes and sometimes don't get it right? I think you're fishing for some, any justification for the loss. And if he sees the video, I don't expect him to share his self-assessment. But I trust his judgment, 100%. I trust him enough that when I'm working in his area, I know I can ask to be looked at and know I'll get an honest assessment. Again that's not to say we can't be wrong, but he's one of the guys I go to for answers when I need them.
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drew
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1
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Post by drew on Jan 26, 2016 15:20:17 GMT -6
So can someone describe what happened last night??? Did Acadians score in extra time for the win??? Or did something else HAPPEN?? (Don't know why, but I felt like I needed to capitalize that!) Here is what happened. Lafayette lost, so it's the clock, or a no call, or. Please don't confuse sokerfan's opinions as being those of Lafayette High. Lafayette lost because they let Acadiana score more goals.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 26, 2016 16:46:13 GMT -6
cardsinhand, you are one of the best in our area, I truly believe that. I have to ask though, if we can get a copy of the video will you and your AR watch it and apologize if you were wrong not making the call? I will if I am wrong? Not only in person but on this site for everyone to be able to read. Rules must have been written by REFS, go figure. Are you sure about not having anything to do with rule g. Lol! Absolutely! I've done it before (and on this board) and I know I'll do it again before I'm done with this sport. I know I'm not perfect.
BTW, rules are made by the governing body and enforced by the referees.
and Thank you.
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la1
Bench Warmer
Posts: 28
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Post by la1 on Jan 26, 2016 17:09:50 GMT -6
Cardsinhand or anyone who knows the official ruling settle a dispute for us in district 2. What is the ruling on the champs or co-champs between Lafayette high and Acadiana. Are they co-district champs with Acadiana getting the automatic bid to playoffs or does the head to head win make Acadiana out-right dist. champs this year.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 26, 2016 17:17:02 GMT -6
Cardsinhand or anyone who knows the official ruling settle a dispute for us in district 2. What is the ruling on the champs or co-champs between Lafayette high and Acadiana. Are they co-district champs with Acadiana getting the automatic bid to playoffs or does the head to head win make Acadiana out-right dist. champs this year. That is an administrative issue for the governing body, not for referees to decide. I believe beauchenecoach is associated with that body and posted something in the boys threads.
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Post by kevin on Jan 26, 2016 17:20:16 GMT -6
Cardsinhand or anyone who knows the official ruling settle a dispute for us in district 2. What is the ruling on the champs or co-champs between Lafayette high and Acadiana. Are they co-district champs with Acadiana getting the automatic bid to playoffs or does the head to head win make Acadiana out-right dist. champs this year. Any tiebreaker is entirely up to the district.
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Post by monitor791 on Jan 26, 2016 17:49:34 GMT -6
I agree that more fouls could have been called both ways, but it appeared to me that this group let the girls play. And you are correct, LHS had the best player on the field (#22), but AHS has more talented players. Fun game to watch. I don't think the game was won or loss due to the officials. Maybe I am missing something, but I don't remember seeing anybody saying "LHS had the best player on the field (#22)." Might you be #22's Dad? No legna, for the other team, but I can recognize a very talented player! I said she was the best player on the field, and this was the first game I was able to watch her play. Had to give her some props .... But if I were her dad, I would definitely brag, haha.....
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p_malinich
Data Expert
www.elevenlions.com
Posts: 4,201
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Post by p_malinich on Jan 27, 2016 10:03:48 GMT -6
In addition to what cardsinhand gave you above.. If a district wanted time to be official on the scoreboard, and provided trained operators, I'd be all for it. This takes every question about time or timing out of the referee's hands. So when your team takes a shot that beats the keeper, then the horn sounds, then the ball crosses the line, you'll completely understand why the goal (righteously) does not count. In the opinion of this referee, the clock being visible or not makes no difference. When you accept a game, you agree to the rules of competition. Those rules clearly state how to manage time. In HS, when my clock hits 00:00, the whistle blows. I've killed plays on corner kicks and maybe even a breakaway. One mom even started a thread to whine about it once. But I make the time no secret, at all. I try to give 2 mins, 1 min, 30 secs, and 10 seconds with countdown. The clock should never be a secret and should be exact in HS because there is no concept of "added time". Do not confuse clock management with HS and club, because they are very different. HS I listed why above. In club, that number you see on the board (example: 2) means a minimum of, so a referee has between 2:00 and 2:59. An entire minute to work with. You don't have that in HS. p_malinich can tell you the difference it makes, as he moved from Louisiana to a state with visible clocks properly managed. It's a very different impact. No longer the days of hoping the center does or doesn't blow the whistle depending upon whether your time is winning or losing. Trust me I remember those feelings. Now you can watch the clock tick down with joy or sadness, but it is visible to everyone. I don't get on the the board as much, but I also think I saw some discussion around ballboys the other day. In LA they were a nice to have but I only really remember seeing them in QF and beyond. Not regular season. In PA the game does not start without a visible clock and 2 ball boys. No different than having officials present. We've waited for games we knew would be a blowout while the home team tried to track down ballboys or a portable clock - doesn't have to be permanent. NCAA follows the same scenario for the clock. So if you're looking for Johnny to play in college, it's great to get used to it now. Originally I wasn't a fan, but have grown to like it. Stoppage time still exists, but it's mid-game with the center making an X with his arms to stop the clock. That happens for extended injuries, following a goal until ball is reset, and other "lengthy" stoppages of action. It does make me laugh though when a team that's trailing scores and races to get ball out of net to get it reset. The clock is stopped. No need to race. We did have a 3-4 minute delay one time in the pouring down rain when they had not stopped the clock appropriately and ran off an extra 30 seconds. Center made sure to get it back to what it was supposed to be. That's the exception and not the rule though, but they take it seriously. What I like most is that the guessing is gone, the pressure is off of the center, and we still get a full game of action.
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Post by laffysoccermom on Jan 27, 2016 14:44:52 GMT -6
I wish we had this. We recently had a game where we were up 2-1 and it seemed like the ref was going to let the game go until they tied it up. I know this was probably just our perspective and the other parents probably felt like he didn't add enough time for an injury when we had a player leave game. This would take that whole element out of the game.
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