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Throw Ins
Jan 14, 2019 20:27:47 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by DocT on Jan 14, 2019 20:27:47 GMT -6
Well, if that is the case then why use two hands? Just go ahead and let them throw it in with one which is what is being done when a single hand is behind the ball. Pretty much what is being done anyways. Happened 4 times tonight in our game. No call each time. Blows my mind
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Post by AgSurfer on Jan 14, 2019 20:33:50 GMT -6
That is the same language as FIFA. In a FIFA game can a player do a throw in with one hand behind the ball and the other used for guidance? As long as the ball goes over the head. Guys, it's a throw in. We just want the ball back in play. Is it really worth this much time? When it gives a team an advantage, ball being thrown into the 6 yard box, then yes. Players already run up as much as 5-7 yards. Put the ball in play by the rules.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 14, 2019 21:16:26 GMT -6
Two hands over the head. Legal. Why do some people ask for an answer then continue to argue when they get it? I’m done.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 5:38:49 GMT -6
Two hands over the head. Legal. Why do some people ask for an answer then continue to argue when they get it? I’m done. No problem but you cannot provide proof that your answer is correct.
When I originally asked the question I thought it would be a cut and dried answer. In your opinion it is but in my opinion it is not.
I think that the rule is vague and that ultimately is the problem. It is open to interpretation.
It says "The thrower must use two hands." What does that mean?
You say it means you can have a dominate hand and I do not think that is what it is saying.
Sorry you do not like debate.
Edit FIFA: "use both hands" NFHS: "The thrower shall use both hands." IFAB: "throw the ball with both hands."
All of those to me mean no dominant hand.
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Throw Ins
Jan 15, 2019 7:14:54 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by time2retire on Jan 15, 2019 7:14:54 GMT -6
Spin indicates one hand is dominant. Spin does not make a throw illegal.
Probably a year ago we had to reiterate that a throw from a kneeling position was not legal.
Personally too many are too critical when it comes to throws and a lot of legal throws are being whistled.
"Ugly but legal never got me in trouble"
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 7:41:27 GMT -6
Spin indicates one hand is dominant. Spin does not make a throw illegal. Probably a year ago we had to reiterate that a throw from a kneeling position was not legal. Personally too many are too critical when it comes to throws and a lot of legal throws are being whistled. "Ugly but legal never got me in trouble" I appreciate your response. I really do, but it does not in my opinion clear the water.
If a hand is behind the ball it is physically impossible to throw the ball with two hands as all three organizations say how the ball must be thrown.
The hand behind the ball gives the thrower the ability to throw the ball farther (less arch) and I believe more accurately (guiding hand).
I have yet to see a rule that says a dominate hand allowed.
I have found this from IFAB: www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-15---the-throw-in No dominate hand, you have to Open FAQ #1
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Post by Bish on Jan 15, 2019 9:34:04 GMT -6
I guess it comes down to if the ball is considered to be thrown "over the head" or not? By what you've described, it seems the only way to throw the ball with a strong dominate hand and like a baseball would have to have the ball coming over the side of the head. Am I incorrect? If the ball is coming over the shoulder basically, then it seems it should be considered an illegal throw.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 10:37:42 GMT -6
I and many others witnessed St Louis throwing over their head with a hand behind the ball. I just want to know if that is legal or not. If it is ok. If it is not, well then should it be called?
My thoughts from my research is that yes it is illegal and should not be allowed.
My thoughts from this thread is that it is a misunderstood rule.
No one can can show me in the rules where a dominate hand is allowed. Two hands, to me, means two hands with equal force as IFAB went to the trouble to spell out.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 15, 2019 11:04:51 GMT -6
I and many others witnessed St Louis throwing over their head with a hand behind the ball. I just want to know if that is legal or not. If it is ok. If it is not, well then should it be called? My thoughts from my research is that yes it is illegal and should not be allowed. My thoughts from this thread is that it is a misunderstood rule. No one can can show me in the rules where a dominate hand is allowed. Two hands, to me, means two hands with equal force as IFAB went to the trouble to spell out. What you quoted is not from the IFAB, it is from the FA. They are not the same. I posted quoting the IFAB and NFHS. No where in them does it say it is not legal either. Therefore my "opinion" as a referee is two hands over the head and it is not going to get a whistle. You will get consistency from me with that call.
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Post by Bish on Jan 15, 2019 12:03:07 GMT -6
But what do you consider "over the head"? What if the ball is thrown more over the shoulder, but still high enough to be considered "above the head"? It'd be great if there were a video example of this type of throw.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 12:06:01 GMT -6
At the top of the page it says:
LAW 15: The Throw In
IFAB Laws of the Game 2018-19
I assumed that means IFAB rules/laws.
IFAB does say it is illegal if my assumption above is correct which I believe it to be.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 15, 2019 12:17:42 GMT -6
At the top of the page it says:
LAW 15: The Throw In
IFAB Laws of the Game 2018-19
I assumed that means IFAB rules/laws.
IFAB does say it is illegal if my assumption above is correct which I believe it to be.
That would be the FA's "opinion". Also a very interesting picture for the page titled "The throw in". It looks to me like one hand being used more than the other.
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Post by smee on Jan 15, 2019 12:43:50 GMT -6
Equal pressure (ie, the ball not spinning) has not been a requirement since 1987 revision of the LOTG: I recall a SDI looking this up a number of years back. If both hands are touching the ball (assuming high school, and no physical reason for only using one hand), the ball is above the head, and it comes from behind the head, then IMHO, it is most probably legal.
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Post by smee on Jan 15, 2019 12:44:28 GMT -6
In the era of everyone having a video camera in their pocket, I am amazed that nobody has been able to capture one of these illegal throws.....
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 15, 2019 13:05:51 GMT -6
Equal pressure (ie, the ball not spinning) has not been a requirement since 1987 revision of the LOTG: I recall a SDI looking this up a number of years back. If both hands are touching the ball (assuming high school, and no physical reason for only using one hand), the ball is above the head, and it comes from behind the head, then IMHO, it is most probably legal. I thought you would be old enough to remember playing with these rules? ;-)
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Post by straightdummin on Jan 15, 2019 13:16:03 GMT -6
if this is that big of an issue, then maybe there should be a proposal for a rule change ....
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 13:49:43 GMT -6
At the top of the page it says:
LAW 15: The Throw In
IFAB Laws of the Game 2018-19
I assumed that means IFAB rules/laws.
IFAB does say it is illegal if my assumption above is correct which I believe it to be.
That would be the FA's "opinion". Also a very interesting picture for the page titled "The throw in". It looks to me like one hand being used more than the other. The FAQ?
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 13:51:16 GMT -6
Equal pressure (ie, the ball not spinning) has not been a requirement since 1987 revision of the LOTG: I recall a SDI looking this up a number of years back. If both hands are touching the ball (assuming high school, and no physical reason for only using one hand), the ball is above the head, and it comes from behind the head, then IMHO, it is most probably legal. Please show me or tell me where to go look. The rules as written do not say touching, they say throwing.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 15, 2019 15:01:08 GMT -6
Equal pressure (ie, the ball not spinning) has not been a requirement since 1987 revision of the LOTG: I recall a SDI looking this up a number of years back. If both hands are touching the ball (assuming high school, and no physical reason for only using one hand), the ball is above the head, and it comes from behind the head, then IMHO, it is most probably legal. Please show me or tell me where to go look. The rules as written do not say touching, they say throwing. Please look at the picture in the link you addressed, I looks like he is throwing with one hand and touching with the other. The wording is both hands so they don't throw it like keepers do. If the NFHS will allow a person with a disability to throw the ball in with one arm, then as long as two hands touch it, it sure seems legal to me. The IFAB Law book static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/661/065042_170818_LotG_18_19_EN_DoublePage_150dpi_Korr.pdfThe NFHS Rule Book it's older but a new one digital cost money and Rule 15 has not changed in the current version. darkassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/nfhs-2014-2015-high-school-soccer-rules-book.pdf.pdfAnd just for fun, throw ins can be dangerous.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 15, 2019 15:22:25 GMT -6
A person with a disability, i.e. missing hand/arm can only throw with one hand so actually that is more justification for my point. They CAN'T throw with two hands.
As for the picture, if his hands were moving forward you could tell but all I see is a guy waiting to start his forward motion.
Lastly, every rule shown says they have to throw with both hands. No one, and I mean no one has shown one piece of evidence that says a player can conduct a throw in with one hand or dominate hand. No one, no where.
If that was true the rule would say player must throw with both hands touching the ball. It does not. They all say they have to throw with both hands.
You can not call it an illegal throw but I believe it is and nothing has been shown to prove otherwise.
I have reached out further and waiting to hear back.
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