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Post by soccerpelican on Feb 5, 2019 13:53:01 GMT -6
Please vote on the quality of the referees. How has it been?
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p_malinich
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Post by p_malinich on Feb 5, 2019 14:02:20 GMT -6
Please vote on the quality of the referees. How has it been? Probably the same as every year... If you agree with them, they're great. And if not, they stink.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2019 14:58:10 GMT -6
I'm gonna go right down the middle and choose good as an average rating.
Like just about anything else, we have both ends of the spectrum. Excellent, needs improvement, and everything in between. It would be nice to say excellent, and some merit that rating, but unrealistic. And it would be harsh to put needs improvement across the board, because we clearly have people who are above that.
If there is one thing I could change, it would be to require those seeking NFHS certification to be USSF certified. That will likely never happen. NFHS relies heavily on its referees being USSF certified and having a background before coming into high school ball. That doesn't always happen and it's fairly easy to tell.
It would be nice if there was NFHS-specific training. With games being played every night it is almost impossible to get people together for a training session. Things such as clock management, restarts, handling confrontations, ball runners. Too often we overlook the rules of competition for personal preference. When we accept an assignment, we agree to enforce the rules of competition as written - otherwise, inconsistency becomes a factor. And when the written rules of competition are enforced after not being enforced, coaches and players become agitated. A couple years ago USSF allowed the backward kickoff, NFHS did not catch up at that point. One area allowed backward kickoffs. When they traveled to my area, they got flat out irate and started hollering at the referee that he didn't know the rules. It did not have to come down to that had people followed rules of competition as written.
We hosted a meet-and-greet Q/A social before the season started. 2 parents showed up. I'm not sure if I want to waste my time and money again next season by offering this preseason. If I did it mid-season or at the end of the season, the purpose would be defeated, it would devolve into finger pointing and accusations real quick.
There's a lot more I would change. Long conversation for another audience.
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Referees
Feb 5, 2019 20:39:17 GMT -6
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 5, 2019 20:39:17 GMT -6
Well said, time2retire. If I had known about the meeting, I would have shown up.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2019 23:24:44 GMT -6
Those of you marking "needs improvement", if you want to make comments but want to remain anonymous, send me a PM and I will retract your name but add your comments.
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Referees
Feb 6, 2019 19:44:06 GMT -6
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 6, 2019 19:44:06 GMT -6
The crew that did the Denham v. Captain Shreve did a fantastic job.
The center for Baton Rouge v. St. Amant called loudly to play on (advantage), then three touches and a bad pass by a different team member brought the ball back for the foul. Other than that has been pretty solid.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 7, 2019 7:07:27 GMT -6
The crew that did the Denham v. Captain Shreve did a fantastic job. The center for Baton Rouge v. St. Amant called loudly to play on (advantage), then three touches and a bad pass by a different team member brought the ball back for the foul. Other than that has been pretty solid. That is like a few things in soccer; a tough call. How long before the foul is ignored and play continues or you bring it back? I'm sure it is probably spelled out to some degree but is open to some interpretation.
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Referees
Feb 7, 2019 7:17:41 GMT -6
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Post by time2retire on Feb 7, 2019 7:17:41 GMT -6
Window should be 2-3 seconds
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Post by Skippers on Feb 7, 2019 8:42:28 GMT -6
I believe each ref calls it differently. I call it back as quickly as it appears it isn't going to develop - usually 2 seconds.
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Referees
Feb 7, 2019 9:11:31 GMT -6
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 7, 2019 9:11:31 GMT -6
I also understand it is a difficult judgement.
My issue was the audible to play on. Typically once advantage is called, play will continue regardless. It was first time I can ever recall advantage being audibly yelled and then brought back.
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Referees
Feb 7, 2019 9:26:47 GMT -6
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Post by soccerdad3246 on Feb 7, 2019 9:26:47 GMT -6
Referee performance varies tremendously. Certainly are some good ones, lots of average and some bad ones. One thing I don’t understand is how for many referees the criteria for a foul changes based on who is possessing the ball in what place on the field and how much time is left. This is what I believe happened to the Saints in the NFC championship. Ref didn’t want to affect the outcome, but not making the call had the effect. Around the middle of the field the smallest push will draw a whistle, in the box late in a game a dangerous take down from behind and the whistle gets swallowed. It is a physical game but not a full contact sport. On average I’d say not enough fouls are called and too much dangerous play is allowed. The reality is if you’re consistently making the calls many of the dangerous challenges won’t occur.
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Post by Skippers on Feb 7, 2019 9:31:53 GMT -6
I also understand it is a difficult judgement. My issue was the audible to play on. Typically once advantage is called, play will continue regardless. It was first time I can ever recall advantage being audibly yelled and then brought back. Wow - that's crazy. I usually have this happen 2+ times when coaching high school and when reffing, I would say I call it 1-2 times per game, depending on the age group.
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Referees
Feb 7, 2019 10:27:22 GMT -6
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 7, 2019 10:27:22 GMT -6
I also understand it is a difficult judgement. My issue was the audible to play on. Typically once advantage is called, play will continue regardless. It was first time I can ever recall advantage being audibly yelled and then brought back. Wow - that's crazy. I usually have this happen 2+ times when coaching high school and when reffing, I would say I call it 1-2 times per game, depending on the age group. Just to clarify, I see advantage called all the time. All other times though the ref makes no immediate motion. Play continues 2-3 seconds, if advantage develops, the arms are extended and PLAY is yelled. If no advantage develops, the whistle is blown. I have never seen the 2-3 seconds, PLAY yelled, then the whistle bringing the play back.
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Post by Skippers on Feb 7, 2019 10:30:44 GMT -6
Wow - that's crazy. I usually have this happen 2+ times when coaching high school and when reffing, I would say I call it 1-2 times per game, depending on the age group. Just to clarify, I see advantage called all the time. All other times though the ref makes no immediate motion. Play continues 2-3 seconds, if advantage develops, the arms are extended and PLAY is yelled. If no advantage develops, the whistle is blown. I have never seen the 2-3 seconds, PLAY yelled, then the whistle bringing the play back. Play on or Play with arm or arms extended should be called out when the foul occurs. This lets everyone know that a foul is seen but advantage is being played. If the advantage doesn't pan out, it's then stopped and brought back for a DFK.
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Post by cardsinhand on Feb 7, 2019 12:59:24 GMT -6
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Post by cardsinhand on Feb 7, 2019 13:10:52 GMT -6
Referee performance varies tremendously. Certainly are some good ones, lots of average and some bad ones. One thing I don’t understand is how for many referees the criteria for a foul changes based on who is possessing the ball in what place on the field and how much time is left. This is what I believe happened to the Saints in the NFC championship. Ref didn’t want to affect the outcome, but not making the call had the effect. Around the middle of the field the smallest push will draw a whistle, in the box late in a game a dangerous take down from behind and the whistle gets swallowed. It is a physical game but not a full contact sport. On average I’d say not enough fouls are called and too much dangerous play is allowed. The reality is if you’re consistently making the calls many of the dangerous challenges won’t occur. Please understand that the situation in which the contact is made can also determine if it’s a foul or not. For example, two players challenging for a free ball while standing next to one another may make contact, but it may be viewed as expected and part of the game. While an attacker running at full speed with the ball may receive less contact and it may constitute a foul. It takes less force to knock someone over when running at full speed than someone standing still. So sometimes it appears referees aren’t consistent, but, in my opinion, the situation leading to the contact will have a big impact on if the whistle is blown or not or if a card is shown or not.
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Referees
Feb 7, 2019 13:16:09 GMT -6
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Post by soccerdad3246 on Feb 7, 2019 13:16:09 GMT -6
Referee performance varies tremendously. Certainly are some good ones, lots of average and some bad ones. One thing I don’t understand is how for many referees the criteria for a foul changes based on who is possessing the ball in what place on the field and how much time is left. This is what I believe happened to the Saints in the NFC championship. Ref didn’t want to affect the outcome, but not making the call had the effect. Around the middle of the field the smallest push will draw a whistle, in the box late in a game a dangerous take down from behind and the whistle gets swallowed. It is a physical game but not a full contact sport. On average I’d say not enough fouls are called and too much dangerous play is allowed. The reality is if you’re consistently making the calls many of the dangerous challenges won’t occur. Please understand that the situation in which the contact is made can also determine if it’s a foul or not. For example, two players challenging for a free ball while standing next to one another may make contact, but it may be viewed as expected and part of the game. While an attacker running at full speed with the ball may receive less contact and it may constitute a foul. It takes less force to knock someone over when running at full speed than someone standing still. So sometimes it appears referees aren’t consistent, but, in my opinion, the situation leading to the contact will have a big impact on if the whistle is blown or not or if a card is shown or not. Of course there are nuances. That’s another subject. You don’t think what I described happens? Even subconsciously where it’s much easier for referees to blow the whistle when there’s less riding on it?
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Post by cardsinhand on Feb 7, 2019 14:20:33 GMT -6
Please understand that the situation in which the contact is made can also determine if it’s a foul or not. For example, two players challenging for a free ball while standing next to one another may make contact, but it may be viewed as expected and part of the game. While an attacker running at full speed with the ball may receive less contact and it may constitute a foul. It takes less force to knock someone over when running at full speed than someone standing still. So sometimes it appears referees aren’t consistent, but, in my opinion, the situation leading to the contact will have a big impact on if the whistle is blown or not or if a card is shown or not. Of course there are nuances. That’s another subject. You don’t think what I described happens? Even subconsciously where it’s much easier for referees to blow the whistle when there’s less riding on it? I’m sure there are some instances where it may happen, but that is why we must bring more than just soccer “balls” to the field.
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Referees
Feb 8, 2019 11:58:23 GMT -6
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Post by CoachO on Feb 8, 2019 11:58:23 GMT -6
Window should be 2-3 seconds I’ve always been curious about the case of shooting immediately after a foul. Can you say advantage because they got the chance to shoot? If they miss, did advantage really apply?
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Referees
Feb 8, 2019 12:12:08 GMT -6
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Post by time2retire on Feb 8, 2019 12:12:08 GMT -6
Window should be 2-3 seconds I’ve always been curious about the case of shooting immediately after a foul. Can you say advantage because they got the chance to shoot? If they miss, did advantage really apply? Simply getting a shot off doesn't mean advantage is realized. Take the foul out of the equation, does the attacker have the same opportunity? If the answer is no, we should have the foul.
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