|
|
Post by CoachK Nola on Dec 4, 2019 7:37:38 GMT -6
I'm interested to see where folks stand on this issue...
In the first week of games, some 6 of 30 reported scores were mercy rule finishes. Without the time of the stoppage, its hard to understand exactly how many minutes were "left on the field." But I'm interested to hear from coaches on both end of this deal.
For me, if you're the home team, and you've reserved the space, the referees and brought parents and fans to the field, set up concessions, etc...whats the advantage of killing off a game 25 or 15 minutes early? If you're the away team and you've already paid for the bus, invested the time and energy to travel, why not use that time to the best of your teams ability.
I understand there are nights in Louisiana, where either the weather, field condition, or opposing team attitude might make a coach want to just get on the bus early and go home. But with so many schools struggling to come up with the resources to play 15 games, I would expect more coaches would respect that fact and not thrash someone 8-0. But I'm open to hearing the other side of this discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by rainman19 on Dec 4, 2019 8:14:41 GMT -6
I’m with you...The coach should teach the players to respect the game make them possess the ball.... only Score on crosses things like that...obviously some games can get out of hand if the losing team doesn’t respect the game either and starts playing dirty...
|
|
|
|
Post by letemplayref on Dec 4, 2019 9:09:54 GMT -6
Most teams at least try to call off the dogs. Problem is the 2nd string guys or girls they put in or the defenders they move up to attack want to score too and if the team is that much better their 2nd string can still score at will especially while fresh.
|
|
|
|
Post by wjgirlssoccer on Dec 4, 2019 9:32:20 GMT -6
I understand all that. Yes, it sucks to have to pay for a bus and go get mercy ruled by a STATE championship team caliber team. I have to deal with it twice a soccer season, but on the other hand if I can last atleast 30 mins with a STATE caliber then my season will be good.
|
|
|
|
Post by kevin on Dec 4, 2019 11:35:14 GMT -6
I've seen a lot of these sorts of games over the years, both before and after the mercy rule was enacted. Prior to the rule I think it was important for coaches to figure out how to keep the scoreline down through some creative methods.
I understand that every circumstance is different. Sometimes (especially at small schools) you have a very good team, but not a lot of depth. You may not have a full second string to put in. So maybe you shuffle people around, move your star striker to center back, etc. because your team needs the practice opportunity since they can't go 11v11 in practice because you don't have enough players.
On the other hand, you have some teams with 20+ kids on varsity, 20+ more on JV, and any 11 of those kids could mercy rule one of your district opponents. In that case, why not just get it to 8-0 and be done with it? Maybe you only try to score on crosses. But you'd be better off just doing that at practice. Your JV team will give you more competition than your overmatched district opponent will.
I really don't see how playing keep away or doing crazy restrictions is any less insulting than just beating a team 8-0. The outplayed team know they're getting outplayed when it's 6-0 with 10 minutes left and the other team makes every player touch the ball and only shoots after left-footed crosses to headers. A thrashing is a thrashing whether it's 5-0 or 8-0.
|
|
|
|
Post by premier on Dec 4, 2019 13:26:36 GMT -6
Having played on both sides of a lopsided game before the mercy rule was enacted and refereed since it's been enacted, I can attest that no one likes being thrashed like Kevin said. At a certain point when it's 5-6 to 0, it stops being fun even for the team in the lead. There were many instances where I had players from both teams ask if we could just end the game early before the mercy rule was enacted. There were games during my high school days where I wished we had a mercy rule so that I could go home early because I wasn't getting anything technical or tactical out of the game and I had lost the will to really seriously try because the game was so lopsided.
The competitive nature of the game diminishes and you're left with *most of the time* sloppy soccer from the winning team being lackadaisical and overconfident on the ball and a risk of injury or hard fouls from the frustrated losing team. Granted both of those scenarios can be avoided with the right coaching, but it seems like the mercy rule gives the overpowered team a goal at least to continue to play sharp throughout the game.
So yes, it does suck that you put in the time, effort, and money into getting to a game only to go home early without getting a full 80 minutes in, but I think it's a good rule from a purely player perspective (and that's what we want the game to be about, right? The players)
|
|
|
|
Post by Tank on Dec 4, 2019 14:47:32 GMT -6
You can respect the game while respecting the players. If the rule was to prevent scores being 20-0 and pad stats of individual players, sure congrats the rule works.
As a coach involved in a lot of 8-0 games, I got the score to 4-0 and pulled a majority of starters. I then put the reserve players in, but do not tell them to slow the game down. How is that fair for those players who never get to play only work on possession?? Or how would it be better for my players to only score on crosses? Why not they can score only on diving headers and bicycle kicks for the last goal? I'd tell them to just finish the game while maintaining a high level of play.
When my players work hard everyday in practice and put in the same effort as the starters day in and day out, for them to have to hold possession for 15-25 minutes, (including if they get into the opponent's 18 yard box to kick it back out and work back to my goalkeeper) how is that better? We don't go out to thrash a team, but I think it would be more humiliating as a player to have the opponent's 2nd string play ping-pong with the ball for 30 mins.
Maybe just me - as a former goalkeeper too, I'd rather that 8th goal since I had to save the first 30 shots come my way. Tomato/Tomato.
|
|
|
|
Post by CoachK Nola on Dec 4, 2019 15:09:12 GMT -6
Here's the thing, these are not district matches in the first week of November...
I agree, a district match, which is mandatory does change the equation a bit.
Personally, I would rather be on the thrashed end of a 8-0 than the thrashing side. We had plenty of chances to mercy rule some teams last year and even this year. But we run an inclusive program, with more than 36 players on JV and Varsity combined, these minutes are valuable to a kid who hasn't played much soccer.
I also agree its no more honorable or fair to pass the ball around a team for 20 minutes and turn away chances to finish (one of the cardinal sins for strikers) Playing this way also increases frustration and chances of injury, so I'm not advocating for that kind of solution.
If you only have 20 players in your program and your second team is just that much better, I suppose you go and get it done, score your goals and move on.
But again, this is week one, so it begs the question, did the coach not know or expect the disparity?
|
|
|
|
Post by ulysses on Dec 7, 2019 22:32:59 GMT -6
We all know where this rule came from. Let’s not pretend we don’t. 99.9% of the coaches know how to handle this. It’s that 0.01% that ruins it for all of us.
|
|
|
|
Post by Antimatter on Dec 15, 2019 11:10:05 GMT -6
We all know where this rule came from. Let’s not pretend we don’t. 99.9% of the coaches know how to handle this. It’s that 0.01% that ruins it for all of us. I remember a certain northshore team with a lot of 20 goal games being one of the biggest reasons for the rule. And it was not just backups scoring as it seemed more to pad the scoring stats for some starters. I also remember teams like the Franklin team that made the great run somehow being able to avoid such blowouts. It is all about coaching and arrogance. |
|
bokke
Bench Warmer
Posts: 11
|
Post by bokke on Dec 15, 2019 20:18:57 GMT -6
The answer surely lies with Coaches being smarter with their scheduling and not exposing your team to a thrashing, particularly early in the season.
|
|
|
|
Post by rainman19 on Jan 28, 2020 10:05:57 GMT -6
What is the deal with some games going past the 8 pt mercy rule, I see games going to 11-0. I’m confused at why they keep going. Is this a way to get more goal diff in district in case of a tie for second place? If so that is BS.
|
|
|
|
Post by time2retire on Jan 28, 2020 10:07:43 GMT -6
What is the deal with some games going past the 8 pt mercy rule, I see games going to 11-0. I’m confused at why they keep going. Is this a way to get more goal diff in district in case of a tie for second place? If so that is BS. That’s all done in the first half. You have to get to halftime for the game to be complete. |
|
3balz
Data Expert 
It's tough to make predictions... especially about the future
Posts: 1,260 
|
Post by 3balz on Jan 28, 2020 10:08:39 GMT -6
What is the deal with some games going past the 8 pt mercy rule, I see games going to 11-0. I’m confused at why they keep going. Is this a way to get more goal diff in district in case of a tie for second place? If so that is BS. Running up goals for all district selection in most cases. |
|
|
|
Post by kevin on Jan 28, 2020 10:08:59 GMT -6
What is the deal with some games going past the 8 pt mercy rule, I see games going to 11-0. I’m confused at why they keep going. Is this a way to get more goal diff in district in case of a tie for second place? If so that is BS. Games must get to the end of the 1st half, regardless of score. Districts are in charge of setting their own tiebreaker rules. My guess is that most of them probably cap the goal differential in each game so that the situation you mention won't be an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by happyjack on Jan 30, 2020 0:00:19 GMT -6
Many moons ago I recall a first round d1 boys playoff game (I was the referee). A well known all boys religious high school in Baton Rouge was putting a hurting on a New Orleans East based public school that was in their 2nd year but finished 2nd in a small district so got a bid, team was comprised of mostly Hispanic kids who just weren’t that good. You could see the frustration building for these kids getting scored on. When it was 4-0 the coach pulled the starters and out in the 2nd string. Sadly, after sitting all season, these 2nd stringers decided to show the opponent how good they were, and scored a 5th then a 6th. The agitation by the opponent was highly noticeable, and I even told the captain of the team in the lead that they better tone down the scoring and celebrations. Went in one ear and out of the other, and as the 2nd stringer put in the 7th goal then started a celebratory run up field like he had just scored the World Cup game winner and I’m running toward him yelling at him to knock it off, an opponent flat out cold cocked him, breaking his nose and knocking him out.
Why is there a mercy rule? See above...
|
|
|
|
Post by cardsinhand on Jan 30, 2020 8:11:34 GMT -6
Many moons ago I recall a first round d1 boys playoff game (I was the referee). A well known all boys religious high school in Baton Rouge was putting a hurting on a New Orleans East based public school that was in their 2nd year but finished 2nd in a small district so got a bid, team was comprised of mostly Hispanic kids who just weren’t that good. You could see the frustration building for these kids getting scored on. When it was 4-0 the coach pulled the starters and out in the 2nd string. Sadly, after sitting all season, these 2nd stringers decided to show the opponent how good they were, and scored a 5th then a 6th. The agitation by the opponent was highly noticeable, and I even told the captain of the team in the lead that they better tone down the scoring and celebrations. Went in one ear and out of the other, and as the 2nd stringer put in the 7th goal then started a celebratory run up field like he had just scored the World Cup game winner and I’m running toward him yelling at him to knock it off, an opponent flat out cold cocked him, breaking his nose and knocking him out. Why is there a mercy rule? See above... But that was goal #7 ..... so it could still happen.... |
|
|
|
Post by dualdellortos on Jan 30, 2020 12:55:38 GMT -6
When we are playing a mercy rule type opponent, we start a number of reserves. The starters can use a night off. Why play starters for 20 minutes just to make it 4-0 or 5-0 BEFORE you put in the back-ups??
|
|
N.L.B.
All-District
Posts: 171
|
Post by N.L.B. on Jan 30, 2020 13:45:02 GMT -6
Because the starters have earned the right to start. Also if it is a district match you do your starters a disservice by not letting them play in front of an all district team voter. Somebody is going to score the 8 points. Not saying try to get 13 or 14 before half tho.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tank on Jan 30, 2020 13:46:12 GMT -6
When we are playing a mercy rule type opponent, we start a number of reserves. The starters can use a night off. Why play starters for 20 minutes just to make it 4-0 or 5-0 BEFORE you put in the back-ups?? Keep the starters in a Rhythm. And beside struggling District opponents you know well, you don't know who is who til Christmas. At least that's why I starter my starters til 4-0. |
|
