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Post by kahnman on Feb 23, 2020 9:50:10 GMT -6
Gallstar, you donât even know how right you are, and as everybody else knows, that is a shock, b/c we all know you always think you are right.đ To make your point stronger, my oldest child quit soccer last year because there is not a âwreckâ league to play in. Only option was premier. That wasnât what she wanted, she loved playing soccer but not as much as other things, so it wasnât #1 priority. Therefore, she was left with zero options, other than to quit and play with dad in the backyard only. Terrible that it has come to that, that a kid who wants to play, just for fun, practice during the week and local games on weekends, had no option in a city the size of BR.
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Post by Tarheel on Feb 23, 2020 9:52:34 GMT -6
Gallstar, you donât even know how right you are, and as everybody else knows, that is a shock, b/c we all know you always think you are right.đ To make your point stronger, my oldest child quit soccer last year because there is not a âwreckâ league to play in. Only option was premier. That wasnât what she wanted, she loved playing soccer but not as much as other things, so it wasnât #1 priority. Therefore, she was left with zero options, other than to quit and play with dad in the backyard only. Terrible that it has come to that, that a kid who wants to play, just for fun, practice during the week and local games on weekends, had no option in a city the size of BR. PARDS has a great âwreckâ program!
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Post by kahnman on Feb 23, 2020 9:54:24 GMT -6
Gallstar, you donât even know how right you are, and as everybody else knows, that is a shock, b/c we all know you always think you are right.đ To make your point stronger, my oldest child quit soccer last year because there is not a âwreckâ league to play in. Only option was premier. That wasnât what she wanted, she loved playing soccer but not as much as other things, so it wasnât #1 priority. Therefore, she was left with zero options, other than to quit and play with dad in the backyard only. Terrible that it has come to that, that a kid who wants to play, just for fun, practice during the week and local games on weekends, had no option in a city the size of BR. PARDS has a great âwreckâ program! That is open to EBR residents?... didnât think so....
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Post by laffysoccermom on Feb 23, 2020 9:57:39 GMT -6
If you look at basketball- the split is ridiculous. You have divisions with 12-14 teams. All teams make playoffs. You get the state championship for being the best of 12 teams.
Truthfully, the divisions should be different regarding public and private but you canât do that because they are combined until playoffs. If they are going to separate, you should do it completely but that increases travel costs.
If you want to level the playing field, maybe a multiplier of some sort for private schools enrollment to determine division,
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Post by firebruin on Feb 23, 2020 10:02:02 GMT -6
Hehe.. a team made up of Bonnabel, East Jefferson, and Grace King players would be interesting.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 23, 2020 10:02:08 GMT -6
Somebody will have to choose the serving of others over the filling of their coffers. I don't blame anyone because it's become a cycle or trap that we've all grown accustomed too. Nothing plays to a wealthy parents' ego more than my baby is getting the best of the blank. The problem is your baby can't compete on the real stage, and some other baby that could isn't allowed on the scene. Could Louisiana be the state the break this terrible pattern? You bet. It'll take someone with courage and selflessness. If the publics starts beating the hell out of the privates, with a better, more serving model, you better believe they'll be roars of it's unfair. Give them a chance to play. Somebody be selfless and go start a program in the Heart of Mckinleyâs district. A field, a goal, a few balls, and eventually lights. Give them a place to play that occupies them and eventually builds something far more significant. Hope! Pass it on!
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Post by Tarheel on Feb 23, 2020 11:25:12 GMT -6
PARDS has a great âwreckâ program! That is open to EBR residents?... didnât think so.... Absolutely! Think itâs a whopping $15 extra for out of parish kids.
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Post by Soccer dad on Feb 23, 2020 11:29:23 GMT -6
If the case can be made that club soccer is what holds back American soccer how do you explain the womenâs success? I am truly asking because I struggle with this argument.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 23, 2020 11:33:49 GMT -6
If the case can be made that club soccer is what holds back American soccer how do you explain the womenâs success? I am truly asking because I struggle with this argument. Really? 90% of the women around the world are not given a chance to play organized sports. Title nine and freedom are why women soccer is at the level they're at. Grow a more worldly view! Men are the only game in town in many countries.
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Post by Tank on Feb 23, 2020 11:39:36 GMT -6
It's not a public vs private matter that's pushing the high school soccer narrative. It's the number of families that cannot afford the American model. There are club directors making 6 figures to tell a kid how to play a game that is truly quite simple. This answer will piss off every paid club coach in this circle of trust. Parents quit paying $4000 a year for club and put the kids on wreck teams in the clubs: the more kids that play, the better the game gets. The reason soccer sucks in the USA IS that it's a money grab. Kids don't get to properly developed through open play. They shouldn't organize into teams until U-14, and even that may be too early. I will be told how stupid I am and put down every way imaginable, but the kids from McKinely had 7-8 kids better than anything a club has produced. Visit Costa Rica and watch their player development. All that want to play show up to the town field and divide up into teams. They're a country of maybe 5 million people, and they make and have made runs deep in the world cup. The private kids are the same ones that can afford the American model. Get more kids playing at all social and economic levels, and you'll level the field rapidly. Build a new model because most can't afford the current one and the 4th largest country in the world sucks at soccer yet we have more club coaches than any other country in the world. Follow the money! Can someone explain to me, in as few or many details as possible, why people have a problem with paid club coaches? Most of the arguements I hear (like Gallstar's this will piss off club coaches in the trust circle) is... not a whole lot of specific examples. Please feel free to explain. Is it that the results don't translate? (players struggling to win games?) Philosophies of club and coached conflicts? Do club coaches focus to much on winning and not developing the weaker players? (Development vs results of a match?) Quality of the club coach him/herself? Does there need to be a universal standard of education/hours/interships before a coach can be in a competitive league? Are you against private trainers as well? And forgive me gallstar, I was watching all the stream of Denham and Catholic yesterday - I don't remember the teams you were referring to, but you made a point about a high school game where one school had a quality coach vs a team with just a teacher sponsor doing her best and that it just isn't a fair contest. (Believe this was during the 2nd half). Do we want quality coaches for a simple game or not? I'm all ears.
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Post by Soccer dad on Feb 23, 2020 12:15:12 GMT -6
If the case can be made that club soccer is what holds back American soccer how do you explain the womenâs success? I am truly asking because I struggle with this argument. Really? 90% of the women around the world are not given a chance to play organized sports. Title nine and freedom are why women soccer is at the level they're at. Grow a more worldly view! Men are the only game in town in many countries. Yes really. Perhaps your view is skewed towards what you want the outcome to be. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc all do not suppress womenâs sports. Your argument makes sense in some countries but by far not the majority.
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Post by kevin on Feb 23, 2020 12:17:43 GMT -6
I don't think coaching is the big factor here.
The big factor is this: either kids are growing up playing soccer, or they're not. A kid who's playing pickup games with his friends for an hour every day from the ages of 5-13 (whether that's in school, at a playground, whatever) has a chance to be a pretty good soccer player. A kid who plays club soccer and practices a couple hours and plays a game or two each week from the ages of 5-13 also has a chance to be a pretty good soccer player.
The kid who never plays soccer until he's a freshman and decides to go out for his public HS team that's perennially undermanned? He's probably not going to be that good unless he's a freak athlete.
Right now the differences are due to demographics. Youth soccer is primarily popular among Hispanic kids and upper-middle to upper-class white kids. There are exceptions of course, but the vast majority of good HS players fall into those two categories. The schools with good teams tend to draw heavily from one of those two groups.
As has already been pointed out, splitting off the private schools would just lead to the same rich public schools winning most of the state championships. If you look at the public school basketball championships, I'm guessing you will see a lot more diversity (in terms of wealth/class) than you would in soccer. Why? Because basketball is more popular for children across all social classes.
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Post by futballer on Feb 23, 2020 12:27:24 GMT -6
For starters, I havenât read all of the posts in this thread. I donât really feel like wasting my time because, in the end, I donât think the powers to be will look to make meaningful change.
The current system is a joke. If anyone thinks that a public school has the depth of players to consistently compete with a private school, you need your head examined. Sure, the Dutchtownâs, Lafayetteâs and Denham Springs of the world will compete....each team has a handful of highly skilled players who can keep it close and give the appearance of a fair playing field. Dutchtown has 3 or 4 kids who would easily start on St Paulâs team. Everyone who is being honest knows that depth of skilled players is the Achilles heal. Soccer is a physically taxing game, especially against good opponents, and itâs completely unrealistic to think any kids are capable of playing at peak level for 80 minutes, while the deeper teams (St Paulâs, Catholic, etc) are able to sub in and out at will. Youâre living in fantasy land if you think that what we have right now is fair to all kids involved.
I took a quick look at the Division I champions since 2002. Private schools, mainly Jesuit and St Paulâs, have dominated the landscape for almost 20 years. The last public school champion was 2007.
The top level players from each team are pretty even. Itâs the drop off after player 4-5 in the starting lineup. Hereâs my suggestions for an easy fix.
1. Split private and public in the playoffs. Let the champions in each play at the end; or
2. If we keep private and public together, require teams to lock their rosters for each game. In other words, only 14-15 can dress out for varsity. This would provide some limitations on the fresh legs that private schools are able to put on the field each game; or
3. Change the substitution rules to mirror GSPL and RPL. In those club leagues, as I understand it (Iâm not a coach), when a player is subbed out, he canât return in that half. This would force coaches to be more strategic in when to sub in and out. This would also level the playing field, where our best get to compete against your best....and letâs see who has the stamina to maintain a high intensity level. Also, substitutions are limited to a total of 7 in a game, again forcing coaches to be more strategic in who/when to sub.
As a hypothetical. Letâs just say that in this past game between St Paulâs and Dutchtown, who wins if both teams had been forced to play with their starting lineups for the entire game. No subs. Absurd question, right? You canât expect anyone to play an entire game with no subs, right? Well, thatâs exactly what youâre asking the public schools to do every game. Because of limited depth on the bench, public school coaches donât have the luxury of free wheeling subbing all game long. As a result, the top players on public school teams are required to play the entire game.....
We want to anoint the St Paulâs, Jesuits and Catholic coaches as being soccer savants who understand the game of soccer at a different level than the public school mortals; or that the players from those schools are blue chippers compared to public school working joes.....thatâs all a joke. The current system favors kids who play club soccer and whoâs families can afford the $10k price tag annually to send their kids to private school.
Enough said.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 23, 2020 12:27:28 GMT -6
I'll do my best to answer parts of your question. Iâm not saying anyone has done anything wrong. They've done exactly what society says is the way to become a great player! Name the American greats right now?
The average cost to play club soccer excluding anything other than club fees is 4K a year price tag but much more once you add in travel and tourney fees. The majority of this cost is to cover coaches, staff, refs, insurance and maintenance or up keep.
You can play in a wreck soccer program or with a volunteer program for around $500 annually. The problem is a wreck team gets zilch from the club and they'll eventually be ostracized. If we had Coaches that gave back freely that will not take money for any soccer training you would find a much bigger pool of children that can afford to play. More people playing and more people volunteering gets the lower-income children involved. The problem with this is the clubs might give them one night a week to practice and not one coach will bother with them other than maybe one or two. The grouping of the âbestâ players starts at U-6 or U-7. Why? Earlier club soccer means more money. I'm looking for smaller club models that group nobody until U-14 and have nothing but fun development for every child. No travel necessary and once we get to 14 lets see our crops. It's unimaginable the number of kids that we've missed. If I'm wrong why are we so far behind with so much being spent? Why are the best High school teams The most affluent? I've made up my mind. I'm going to invest in some property in the McKinely area, set up a field like the ones in Costa rica that I've visited 5 times and just let kids shoe up. I hope a few will pop up in other places as well.
To answer your question about the McKinely coaching. They had a person roll the ball out onto the pitch and never change a thing. Just played the best they could. Holy Cross had two chess masters barking and shaping the Holy Cross side. If either one had shaped up McKinely they win. Is a coach important to the high school game? You bet. Can all families afford one no sir!
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Post by firebruin on Feb 23, 2020 12:28:30 GMT -6
The lack of sponsorships is an issue for me. I did a go fund me drive a few years ago and netted $250. The football team did one and earned $20,000 because they went and knelt for the national anthem. đđđđ Every team that I played against had at least 4 coaches. I am sure that every team that I played in the playoffs had goals to train on. They also probably had balls that would pass the pregame ball inspection (I now have 5 of those thanks to Gallstar!). đđâşď¸ If we could have sponsors on jerseys, I am sure that I could sell that to some of the local businesses, but that is a big no no.
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 23, 2020 12:44:37 GMT -6
The average cost to play club soccer excluding anything other than club fees is 4K a year price tag but much more once you add in travel and tourney fees. Curious where you got this number?
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Post by gallstar on Feb 23, 2020 12:48:47 GMT -6
The average cost to play club soccer excluding anything other than club fees is 4K a year price tag but much more once you add in travel and tourney fees. Curious where you got this number? from goggle: searches a national average and here is what I got: Depending on the level, membership dues can range from $2,500 to $5,000 per year. Plus, some teams have a registration fee. These costs typically cover salaries, league and referee fees, state and national registration fees, and player insurance and player development programs. So, parents also have to pay for travel costs, which vary depending on how far you goâanywhere from $500 to $6,000 from spring to fall.
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Post by firebruin on Feb 23, 2020 13:05:13 GMT -6
My son's u12 team runs about $2200 plus camps, training, and ODP. That's not counting travel.
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Post by wildcatstriker on Feb 23, 2020 13:06:40 GMT -6
Curious where you got this number? from goggle: searches a national average and here is what I got: Depending on the level, membership dues can range from $2,500 to $5,000 per year. Plus, some teams have a registration fee. These costs typically cover salaries, league and referee fees, state and national registration fees, and player insurance and player development programs. So, parents also have to pay for travel costs, which vary depending on how far you goâanywhere from $500 to $6,000 from spring to fall. I can see that nationally. But do not think Louisiana is anywhere near that. I know BRSC, Ascension, and PARDS are no where near that. Not familiar with LSC, CSC, or Fire. Itâs tough to try to change national model, and blaming it for LA woes doesnât make sense. But there are a lot of families that can not afford the $500-$1400 that LA clubs charge. And club coaches donât make much more than enough to cover costs of materials they need to run sessions.
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Post by msouth7278 on Feb 23, 2020 13:17:16 GMT -6
It's not a public vs private matter that's pushing the high school soccer narrative. It's the number of families that cannot afford the American model. There are club directors making 6 figures to tell a kid how to play a game that is truly quite simple. This answer will piss off every paid club coach in this circle of trust. Parents quit paying $4000 a year for club and put the kids on wreck teams in the clubs: the more kids that play, the better the game gets. The reason soccer sucks in the USA IS that it's a money grab. Kids don't get to properly developed through open play. They shouldn't organize into teams until U-14, and even that may be too early. I will be told how stupid I am and put down every way imaginable, but the kids from McKinely had 7-8 kids better than anything a club has produced. Visit Costa Rica and watch their player development. All that want to play show up to the town field and divide up into teams. They're a country of maybe 5 million people, and they make and have made runs deep in the world cup. The private kids are the same ones that can afford the American model. Get more kids playing at all social and economic levels, and you'll level the field rapidly. Build a new model because most can't afford the current one and the 4th largest country in the world sucks at soccer yet we have more club coaches than any other country in the world. Follow the money! You hit the nail on the head. Iâm guilty as well. My kids play club and Iâm a club coach, as well as a private school head coach. So much talent is not found or realized because they just canât afford it. It goes all the way to the ODP level. Very talented players donât play ODP simply because of the $$$$. In turn players that may not be as talented can make it because their family can fit the bill.
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