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Post by LAsoccercoach on Feb 23, 2020 13:37:55 GMT -6
Lots of healthy conversation here, below is a link to two articles I find very interesting and more on par with my thoughts regarding pay to play. 1. Pay to Play and Accessibility are not the same issue. They are concentric circles with a bit of overlap â but we must stop confusing the conversation by making them the same because Accessibility is too important of a subject. 2. With better national leadership focusing on reforming and improving the youth soccer culture â we will reap positive cultural improvements that will result in tackling some of the prevalent issues rampant within our current Pay-to-Play model. 3. The geographic size of our country presents some real and significant roadblocks to lowering the cost of our top youth talent to compete based on travel expenses alone. 4. When we discuss making youth soccer more affordable, we are talking about completely altering the financial model most of our clubs are reliant upon to remain a viable business entity. www.soccertoday.com/american-youth-soccers-pay-to-play-model-is-it-realy-wrong/www.soccerparenting.com/reasonable-lets-stop-saying-eliminate-pay-to-play/
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Post by JoshuaC on Feb 23, 2020 13:52:19 GMT -6
3. The geographic size of our country presents some real and significant roadblocks to lowering the cost of our top youth talent to compete based on travel expenses alone.
PREACH!!
I had the pleasure of going to London, England in 2017 to view a Crystal Palace game and Arsenal game. The issue is the fact that every other country in Europe where soccer is king can travel to each other in their own respective country, within hours.
The best soccer states in the country, Florida, and California are across the entire country. If we want to play that competition at the club level to get better and compete which is a must to get better we have to travel for 4 hours or get on an airplane. Geography crushes our entire model in this country sadly.
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 23, 2020 14:02:05 GMT -6
It's not a public vs private matter that's pushing the high school soccer narrative. It's the number of families that cannot afford the American model. There are club directors making 6 figures to tell a kid how to play a game that is truly quite simple. This answer will piss off every paid club coach in this circle of trust. Parents quit paying $4000 a year for club and put the kids on wreck teams in the clubs: the more kids that play, the better the game gets. The reason soccer sucks in the USA IS that it's a money grab. Kids don't get to properly developed through open play. They shouldn't organize into teams until U-14, and even that may be too early. I will be told how stupid I am and put down every way imaginable, but the kids from McKinely had 7-8 kids better than anything a club has produced. Visit Costa Rica and watch their player development. All that want to play show up to the town field and divide up into teams. They're a country of maybe 5 million people, and they make and have made runs deep in the world cup. The private kids are the same ones that can afford the American model. Get more kids playing at all social and economic levels, and you'll level the field rapidly. Build a new model because most can't afford the current one and the 4th largest country in the world sucks at soccer yet we have more club coaches than any other country in the world. Follow the money! Hey, can someone pick up that microphone? Cuz Gallstar just dropped it.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 23, 2020 14:04:11 GMT -6
The best referees are from public schools. That is all.
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 23, 2020 14:07:39 GMT -6
If you look at basketball- the split is ridiculous. You have divisions with 12-14 teams. All teams make playoffs. You get the state championship for being the best of 12 teams. Truthfully, the divisions should be different regarding public and private but you canât do that because they are combined until playoffs. If they are going to separate, you should do it completely but that increases travel costs. If you want to level the playing field, maybe a multiplier of some sort for private schools enrollment to determine division, The population number of the school has nothing to do with it. It is all about pay to play club soccer. The schools that have clubs feeding them players rise to the top, the schools that do not have clubs feeding them players have a harder time (there are a few exceptions). So, a multiplier will not solve anything.
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Post by CoachJack on Feb 23, 2020 14:11:02 GMT -6
First, I do not favor a public/private split. As a player I wanted to beat the best and feel good knowing I did. As a coach, I want the same.
Secondly, for everyone frustrated with St Paulâs; meet me at chimes and we can vent together. Pretty much 90% of that team lives in my school district. Most of that team plays at the club that I coach at. Now Iâm just a poor free coach that coaches wreck ball and loves coaching dearly, but getting paid to do what I love is the American Dream after all. Maybe one day.
Third, most high school players donât play ball after highschool. So if you had a choice to sign up for St. Paulâs, sit the bench and win a title or play for the local Highschool and fight for every chance and nothing is guaranteed. Most kids take the easy way. I coach a kid that is on their 8th grade squad and he loves saying that he will have more state titles than I will. The local kids here just believe that they will win by switching to St. Paulâs. And as long as they do, more will follow.
Only way in my opinion for St. Paulâs to be dethroned is for FHS, MHS, CHS, Lakeshore to get their act together. None of these public highschools value soccer. Lakeshore has the best chance being they are in a different division. MHS is trying to rebuild and to rebrand. We greatly improved from last season but left so much on the table.
Just imagine how different this argument would be if half the talent stayed at MHS and not switched to St Paulâs after Jr High. Now Iâm a new young coach. Canât promise anything but we are trying like hell to chance the culture and make public schools just as attractive as those great private schools I have to compete with. St. Paulâs, Christ E., HHS, Northlake, PJP. And all of them had great years.
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Post by CoachJack on Feb 23, 2020 14:11:34 GMT -6
First, I do not favor a public/private split. As a player I wanted to beat the best and feel good knowing I did. As a coach, I want the same.
Secondly, for everyone frustrated with St Paulâs; meet me at chimes and we can vent together. Pretty much 90% of that team lives in my school district. Most of that team plays at the club that I coach at. Now Iâm just a poor free coach that coaches wreck ball and loves coaching dearly, but getting paid to do what I love is the American Dream after all. Maybe one day.
Third, most high school players donât play ball after highschool. So if you had a choice to sign up for St. Paulâs, sit the bench and win a title or play for the local Highschool and fight for every chance and nothing is guaranteed. Most kids take the easy way. I coach a kid that is on their 8th grade squad and he loves saying that he will have more state titles than I will. The local kids here just believe that they will win by switching to St. Paulâs. And as long as they do, more will follow.
Only way in my opinion for St. Paulâs to be dethroned is for FHS, MHS, CHS, Lakeshore to get their act together. None of these public highschools value soccer. Lakeshore has the best chance being they are in a different division. MHS is trying to rebuild and to rebrand. We greatly improved from last season but left so much on the table.
Just imagine how different this argument would be if half the talent stayed at MHS and not switched to St Paulâs after Jr High. Now Iâm a new young coach. Canât promise anything but we are trying like hell to chance the culture and make public schools just as attractive as those great private schools I have to compete with. St. Paulâs, Christ E., HHS, Northlake, PJP. And all of them had great years.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 23, 2020 14:11:43 GMT -6
Lots of healthy conversation here, below is a link to two articles I find very interesting and more on par with my thoughts regarding pay to play. 1. Pay to Play and Accessibility are not the same issue. They are concentric circles with a bit of overlap â but we must stop confusing the conversation by making them the same because Accessibility is too important of a subject. 2. With better national leadership focusing on reforming and improving the youth soccer culture â we will reap positive cultural improvements that will result in tackling some of the prevalent issues rampant within our current Pay-to-Play model. 3. The geographic size of our country presents some real and significant roadblocks to lowering the cost of our top youth talent to compete based on travel expenses alone. 4. When we discuss making youth soccer more affordable, we are talking about completely altering the financial model most of our clubs are reliant upon to remain a viable business entity. www.soccertoday.com/american-youth-soccers-pay-to-play-model-is-it-realy-wrong/www.soccerparenting.com/reasonable-lets-stop-saying-eliminate-pay-to-play/ great articles. The question I would pose to the first author is why do clubs give scholarships? Why do they choose to help some and not others? The real answer: the player gives the club or their team an advantage and then theyâre very eligible for support. My argument is why have teams at U-5 through U-14. Best excuse Iâve heard is kids want to assemble. I struggle with this. So my point is can Someone figure out a club of champions model where the end goal isnât money but rather every kid having a chance to play and develop with equal interest in all the kids? Maybe Iâm an idealist or a dreamer? I do believe if money werenât a part of the equation we would find more players and the best all at the same time. Just a far away dream and Iâve failed in my life to make things better by only talking about such a model. Talk doesnât get it done and kudos to all that have found a way to set it up as it currently sits. The topic was why are there no public schools and my answer is because they donât have enough players. The reason they donât have enough is very debatable but mostly centered around lower income families not playing soccer. Many reasons obviously exist.
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Post by willowdale on Feb 23, 2020 14:12:03 GMT -6
Anybody can form a rec team like the BRSC Tornados, fundraise and play soccer games throughout the high school years. No one is stopping you. Playing regional and national leagues is not for everyone. I have one son who has played on a high level team with no regrets but another son who plays rec with mostly public school kids. The rec team just requires more work from parent coach. Scheduling is an issue but you dont need that many games once in high school and if you want to do other sports. Bernie Sanders says he will provide free coaching if you elect him.
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 23, 2020 14:12:05 GMT -6
Really? 90% of the women around the world are not given a chance to play organized sports. Title nine and freedom are why women soccer is at the level they're at. Grow a more worldly view! Men are the only game in town in many countries. Yes really. Perhaps your view is skewed towards what you want the outcome to be. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc all do not suppress womenâs sports. Your argument makes sense in some countries but by far not the majority. Title nine makes girls soccer a much bigger deal. Just look at the number of scholarships available for girls soccer players in Louisiana versus the number available for boys soccer players.
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Post by LAsoccercoach on Feb 23, 2020 14:33:25 GMT -6
Personally, I believe any and all talk about a split has nothing to do with development or the growth or demise of soccer, but more to do with pridefulness and winning.
HS soccer isnât the ideal environment for player development, however it is a great environment for character development. Take it for what it is and have fun within its current construction. Use the sport to teach and instill life skills that can easily translate into every aspect of a players life, take a step back from winning at all cost and enjoy the opportunity to develop deep friendships, bonds, and memories to last a lifetime.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 23, 2020 15:48:26 GMT -6
If the case can be made that club soccer is what holds back American soccer how do you explain the womenâs success? I am truly asking because I struggle with this argument. Really? 90% of the women around the world are not given a chance to play organized sports. Title nine and freedom are why women soccer is at the level they're at. Grow a more worldly view! Men are the only game in town in many countries. The US, for all its flaws, was very early to allow girls to play sports. Title 9 helped but freedom more than anything.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 23, 2020 16:06:45 GMT -6
Anybody can form a rec team like the BRSC Tornados, fundraise and play soccer games throughout the high school years. No one is stopping you. Playing regional and national leagues is not for everyone. I have one son who has played on a high level team with no regrets but another son who plays rec with mostly public school kids. The rec team just requires more work from parent coach. Scheduling is an issue but you dont need that many games once in high school and if you want to do other sports. Bernie Sanders says he will provide free coaching if you elect him. the Tornados are The Devil! They've been the devil for a long time. They won the Houston memorial day Cup last year in top flight but got no mention from their own club! đ
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Post by msouth7278 on Feb 23, 2020 16:22:24 GMT -6
I also think it would be a great to start educating the rec coaches more as a whole. Not just let them go out there and hope everything goes OK. The vast majority of the club coaches have received some type of coaching education, itâs online, coaching clinics or even a license
If I am the parent of an upper end player I really donât want to hear words like âkick itâ, âbig kickâ,and âRunâ as instruction
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Post by istina on Feb 23, 2020 16:32:47 GMT -6
Just imagine how different this argument would be if half the talent stayed at MHS and not switched to St Paulâs after Jr High. Now Iâm a new young coach. Canât promise anything but we are trying like hell to chance the culture and make public schools just as attractive as those great private schools I have to compete with. St. Paulâs, Christ E., HHS, Northlake, PJP. And all of them had great years. Your assertion that families are "switching" to St. Paul's is ridiculous on its face. No one switched schools. Since St. Paul's and Hannan H.S. start in the 8th grade, these families have to wait until the 8th grade to begin at the school. Both NLC and Christ E. are K-12, so most are attending from early on. How many players from MHS have switched to St. Paul's and played soccer? Now, no child is contracted to go to a public high school because they live within its attendance zone. This is the straw argument being passed off as reasoned thought. These arbitrary lines, created by School Boards, based on local populations mean nothing other than where a child will attend if their family chooses a public education. The operative word is chooses. You, nor I, nor any School Board or the LHSAA gets to pick where a family chooses to send their kids. The LHSAA determines eligibility only. To pretend a family is breaking some kind of mystical contract with the public school system if they remove their kids from public school and place them into private/parochial schools, when enrollment begins in 8th grade or waiting until 9th, is without basis and borders on the idea of indentured servitude to create the athletic outcome folks desire. There are 7 high schools in your immediate area splitting the talent from the Mandeville, Madisonville and Covington soccer clubs. Three of these are public, so you are not really competing with them. You are rarely, if ever, competing with PJP for players. That leaves the four private schools who all start before the 9th grade. What culture are you trying to change, Mandeville H.S. was the last school to beat St. Paul's on their home field and were in the Semi-finals in 2017. You can be certain your Principal, Mr. Bundy, is in your corner.
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 23, 2020 18:27:51 GMT -6
I also think it would be a great to start educating the rec coaches more as a whole. Not just let them go out there and hope everything goes OK. The vast majority of the club coaches have received some type of coaching education, itâs online, coaching clinics or even a license If I am the parent of an upper end player I really donât want to hear words like âkick itâ, âbig kickâ,and âRunâ as instruction "Use your toe and boot it!!"
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Post by upper90 on Feb 23, 2020 18:33:19 GMT -6
In America, soccer is a rich kid sport. Bottom line. Until the pay to play system is revamped, it will continue to stay that way. I donât know what the solution is. I donât know that anyone does. But I think everyone can agree that something needs to be changed.
In terms of high school dominance, Iâll say this: regardless of what happens, there is always going to be a handful of teams that run the show. No matter how many divisions you separate it into, there are always going to be those 1-2 teams that are tough to beat.
In my opinion, you guys that are shouting âunfair!â about teams like D-town are doing them a disservice. They had St. Paulâs on the ropes. They couldâve won the game... but they didnât.
My school is a select school by definition. Students have to test in and be accepted. We lose tons of kids within our K-8 school that live in our district to other schools around NOLA metro. In NOLA, family legacy is a big deal, and youâre going to lose kids to that. Itâs a reality, and typically, no one is complaining. I know Iâm not. I compete with what I have. And what I have now is great. I know itâs cyclical, and although I have 26 kids on my varsity team, in 5 years, I might have 16. Itâs just how it works, and Iâm still going to try and compete with the best with what I have.
Sports are never completely fair. I commend you that are trying to make it as fair as possible for everyone, but honestly, I just donât care. I want to beat the best, regardless of how everyone is getting their players.
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Post by copakid14 on Feb 24, 2020 10:22:12 GMT -6
This is a cultural issue more than a pay to play issue. Kids don't have free play anymore. If it isn't on the calendar on the fridge, it isn't happening. Kids are over scheduled and if given the choice of binge watching netflix or playing "pickup" soccer, 90% aren't choosing playing...and for parents this is easier.
Our players are more concerned with tailgating at LSU than continuing their soccer careers after high school. The model of players reaching their playing potential in their mid 20's is not applicable in the US for the vast majority. They live out their glory years from 11U-15U and then hold on through the dream of Varsity high school soccer and then fade into the fraternity/sorority backdrop. In my area there are fields and parks everywhere and kids are not playing pick up soccer, even when we try to offer it and organize. Is that because of pay to play? It's free but the kids aren't there because it is not in our cultural priorities...the SEC is in our cultural priorities as well as that new Iphone 11 in their hands.
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 24, 2020 10:29:24 GMT -6
This is a cultural issue more than a pay to play issue. Kids don't have free play anymore. If it isn't on the calendar on the fridge, it isn't happening. Kids are over scheduled and if given the choice of binge watching netflix or playing "pickup" soccer, 90% aren't choosing playing...and for parents this is easier. Our players are more concerned with tailgating at LSU than continuing their soccer careers after high school. The model of players reaching their playing potential in their mid 20's is not applicable in the US for the vast majority. They live out their glory years from 11U-15U and then hold on through the dream of Varsity high school soccer and then fade into the fraternity/sorority backdrop. In my area there are fields and parks everywhere and kids are not playing pick up soccer, even when we try to offer it and organize. Is that because of pay to play? It's free but the kids aren't there because it is not in our cultural priorities...the SEC is in our cultural priorities as well as that new Iphone 11 in their hands. I would reply to this post by copa, but I am too busy right now watching TicTok on my phone.
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Post by Skippers on Feb 24, 2020 10:30:25 GMT -6
This is a cultural issue more than a pay to play issue. Kids don't have free play anymore. If it isn't on the calendar on the fridge, it isn't happening. Kids are over scheduled and if given the choice of binge watching netflix or playing "pickup" soccer, 90% aren't choosing playing...and for parents this is easier. Our players are more concerned with tailgating at LSU than continuing their soccer careers after high school. The model of players reaching their playing potential in their mid 20's is not applicable in the US for the vast majority. They live out their glory years from 11U-15U and then hold on through the dream of Varsity high school soccer and then fade into the fraternity/sorority backdrop. In my area there are fields and parks everywhere and kids are not playing pick up soccer, even when we try to offer it and organize. Is that because of pay to play? It's free but the kids aren't there because it is not in our cultural priorities...the SEC is in our cultural priorities as well as that new Iphone 11 in their hands. Agree 100%.
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