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Post by istina on Feb 26, 2020 16:24:34 GMT -6
Many of us who grew up in south Louisiana in the 70s, 80s and even early 90s remember a time when the private schools struggled mightily against public school competition. There were never any screams of fairness when the big public schools were dominating the privates. In those days, St. Paul and SSA both drew from West and East St. Tammany and even Tangipahoa Parish and still could not compete against the big publics. St. Tammany Parish grew. Tangipahoa and East St. Tammany have private alternatives to St. Paul and SSA. St. Paul and SSA now draw almost exclusively from West St. Tammany with private competition throughout the parish. Because of population growth, however, both the privates and the publics have grown. What was once 2 big public schools, Mandeville and Covington, that once dominated all, are now 4 public schools, but the numbers are still there. And now we have screams of unfairness. Yes the rules are different, but they have always been different; it is interesting that the screams have intensified now that those rules are perceived to benefit the privates. the LHSAA archives only go back to 2002/03. But, I played in the 90's. Private schools were winning the titles then too. At the time, it was only 3 divisions. You allege that public schools dominated and private schools struggled prior to the 90's. Do you have any proof of this? If so, provide a screen shot or some other evidence. Otherwise, it seems like you are just coming up with "facts" without any support. Also, what you seem to be missing, is the fact that for Division I there are 3 schools that have complete control over the division. If publich schools ever "dominated" prior to 1990, then I would surmise it was due to the fact that "club soccer" was in its infancy in Louisiana and that only public schools with students who played semi-organized soccer outside of high school season had a better chance. Post-90's "club soccer" took off and since it is a pay-to-play system the private schools benefited from their students playing soccer year-round. Unfortunately, the majority of public school kids can't afford to play year-round soccer, except for the more affluent parishes. here is the link to Scott Crawford's history of Louisiana H.S. boys State Championships for your perusing: laprepsoccer.proboards.com/thread/15718
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Post by lovenorthshoresoccer on Feb 26, 2020 16:48:21 GMT -6
I apologize as I forget many on this board forget that soccer does not drive highschool sports in Louisiana. In fact for most outside of our board here, it is an afterthought. In the major sports my statement above is fully supported in history. www.14-0productions.com/boys-basketball.html http://www.14-0productions.com/baseball.html " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.14-0productions.com/football-champions.html www.14-0productions.com/boys-basketball.html http://www.14-0productions.com/baseball.html What's interesting about that site is that it only includes the sports considered the major sports here in Louisiana. This board does have a history for soccer and it shows that in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, public schools were consistently making the finals, in fact Slidell having 5 championships in that period, the last being 1992, with Mandeville winning it all a few years later. So I stand by my statement and ask that you simply acknowledge that the rules did not change, only the teams winning under those rules. The increasing shouts of unfairness have a direct correlation to the increase in success of the private schools. At least where soccer is concerned, the increase in private school success is also closely tied to the growth of club soccer in Louisiana. As I stated above, the club teams are heavily populated with private school kids. Those kids do not go to private school because of soccer, they just happen to be the population making up much of those club rosters. My suggestion is simply that the public highschool coaches and parents have the ability to change that dynamic which in turn would grow our sport. If our current club soccer options are n ot viable alternatives, create something that is. I’ll answer you with a different flavor. If they had a separate set of rules then I still say unfair. They have a separate set of rules now and I still say unfair. You cannot govern a league competition with varying sets of rules. That’s my only argument. If St. Amant can accept kids from Livingston or vice versa or choose their school game on. Until such time the rules are variable and thus someone has an advantage. So to rectify lets group those that wish to fill their teams with the private model in group A and those that wish to group their kids based upon the public model in group B. Group C can be the Magnets. Just group by the same set of rules or not at all. To summarize your point, it wasn't fair then but those fools did not know enough to complain (probably because they were winning so did not care). We are not winning now, its still not fair and we need to change things now so we can win again. My point, there is an alternative. The private schools will continue to be populated with the top players until you find a way to get your players the training they are not getting now at an early age. A trophy in the trophy case will not change that fact or make soccer better in Louisiana. I am not arguing for or against a split or suggesting the current competition is or is not "fair". I simply suggest we would not be having this discussion had the private schools not become more successful over time, winners seldom complain, fair or otherwise.
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Post by istina on Feb 26, 2020 17:26:02 GMT -6
I apologize as I forget many on this board forget that soccer does not drive highschool sports in Louisiana. In fact for most outside of our board here, it is an afterthought. In the major sports my statement above is fully supported in history. www.14-0productions.com/boys-basketball.html http://www.14-0productions.com/baseball.html " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.14-0productions.com/football-champions.html www.14-0productions.com/boys-basketball.html http://www.14-0productions.com/baseball.html What's interesting about that site is that it only includes the sports considered the major sports here in Louisiana. This board does have a history for soccer and it shows that in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, public schools were consistently making the finals, in fact Slidell having 5 championships in that period, the last being 1992, with Mandeville winning it all a few years later. So I stand by my statement and ask that you simply acknowledge that the rules did not change, only the teams winning under those rules. The increasing shouts of unfairness have a direct correlation to the increase in success of the private schools. At least where soccer is concerned, the increase in private school success is also closely tied to the growth of club soccer in Louisiana. As I stated above, the club teams are heavily populated with private school kids. Those kids do not go to private school because of soccer, they just happen to be the population making up much of those club rosters. My suggestion is simply that the public highschool coaches and parents have the ability to change that dynamic which in turn would grow our sport. If our current club soccer options are n ot viable alternatives, create something that is. I’ll answer you with a different flavor. If they had a separate set of rules then I still say unfair. They have a separate set of rules now and I still say unfair. You cannot govern a league competition with varying sets of rules. That’s my only argument. If St. Amant can accept kids from Livingston or vice versa or choose their school game on. Until such time the rules are variable and thus someone has an advantage. So to rectify lets group those that wish to fill their teams with the private model in group A and those that wish to group their kids based upon the public model in group B. Group C can be the Magnets. Just group by the same set of rules or not at all. Each individual Parish School Board adopts policies regarding student attendance. Thus, you are claiming different rules, but not accepting the reality the Public School Boards have the ability to change their regulations to allow for the same circumstances as the private schools adopt. Your misgivings are wrongly placed and instead of blaming the LHSAA who has no oversight of either Public or Private school's attendance policies, go to the source, your Parish School Boards and/or the BESE Board. You'll find nothing but resistance because each Parish and school is fighting for every dollar they can get. These dollars are related to the number of enrolled students they have. If schools could get rid of all sports other than the big 4 (football, basketball, baseball and track) they would. The primary goal of a school is education, with athletic participation an accepted function. Without these "minor" sports, Principals would be able to hire another Gifted/Talented teacher or another resource teacher for special education classes or improve the computer labs. However you look at it, athletics, however beneficial they may be, are not the primary focus of a school or school board and brings no extra federal or state dollars into a school system. Just follow the $$$$. Here's an aside, I know a H.S. Principal who disbanded the booster club and absorbed its monies into his general fund. Thus, just split and be done with it. Make it a real split with zero cross division games and be willing to accept the consequences of your wishes and move on. There will still be big and little fish in both divisions. The School Boards and Principals want their fiefdoms, again follow the $$$$. They will not change their attendance regulations and this discourse will just keep happening without any solution. It's time to cut the cord.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 26, 2020 17:33:20 GMT -6
All great points. One set of rules solves the problem? Not likely. A new one takes its place. Enjoy the finals but just imagine for a moment if there were just four from each side of the isle represented. I know that’s hard to do but it’s not that hard to achieve.
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Post by chelsea007 on Feb 26, 2020 17:45:43 GMT -6
Each individual Parish School Board adopts policies regarding student attendance. Thus, you are claiming different rules, but not accepting the reality the Public School Boards have the ability to change their regulations to allow for the same circumstances as the private schools adopt.
This doesn't always apply. I have never heard of a district allowing students to atrend from another parish...ever. Honestly, I don't know if it would be legal to do so from a liability standpoint. This occur on the private side. It is what it is. Again, I don't want a split, but stating that school boards can arbitrarily do what you stated is incorrect.
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Post by drogba on Feb 26, 2020 18:14:58 GMT -6
I think if we split will be true split won’t play each other different Association etc. I think the other sports that are not split is the only reason we have not had a second private association to this point. Which is okay as well. Most of the private schools building facilities for the split.
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Post by spsfan100 on Feb 26, 2020 18:20:03 GMT -6
All great points. One set of rules solves the problem? Not likely. A new one takes its place. Enjoy the finals but just imagine for a moment if there were just four from each side of the isle represented. I know that’s hard to do but it’s not that hard to achieve. I am still trying to figure out how it is St. Pauls’ fault that St. Amant and Mandeville got knocked out of the playoffs by the number 23 seed which is also a public school.
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Post by CoachJack on Feb 26, 2020 18:56:16 GMT -6
All great points. One set of rules solves the problem? Not likely. A new one takes its place. Enjoy the finals but just imagine for a moment if there were just four from each side of the isle represented. I know that’s hard to do but it’s not that hard to achieve. I am still trying to figure out how it is St. Pauls’ fault that St. Amant and Mandeville got knocked out of the playoffs by the number 23 seed which is also a public school. I don’t blame anyone for my teams exit. Every team but one ends their season on a loss. And nor do I have a problem with the finals or who is playing. Wish both teams the best of luck and hope game ends with no injuries.
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Post by gallstar on Feb 26, 2020 19:27:59 GMT -6
All great points. One set of rules solves the problem? Not likely. A new one takes its place. Enjoy the finals but just imagine for a moment if there were just four from each side of the isle represented. I know that’s hard to do but it’s not that hard to achieve. I am still trying to figure out how it is St. Pauls’ fault that St. Amant and Mandeville got knocked out of the playoffs by the number 23 seed which is also a public school. Magnets play by a different set of rules. 😂
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Post by smoser on Feb 26, 2020 21:48:29 GMT -6
thank goodness John Curtis doesn't play soccer... with recruiting, money and God on their side, public schools would not have any chance
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Post by gallstar on Feb 26, 2020 22:10:06 GMT -6
thank goodness John Curtis doesn't play soccer... with recruiting, money and God on their side, public schools would not have any chance God loves you too, Coach! I think you're the Chest Master but if you win this next one vs. the bears I'm going with two S’s! Chess master!
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Post by socceranyone on Feb 26, 2020 22:25:47 GMT -6
First, I do not favor a public/private split. As a player I wanted to beat the best and feel good knowing I did. As a coach, I want the same. Secondly, for everyone frustrated with St Paul’s; meet me at chimes and we can vent together. Pretty much 90% of that team lives in my school district. Most of that team plays at the club that I coach at. Now I’m just a poor free coach that coaches wreck ball and loves coaching dearly, but getting paid to do what I love is the American Dream after all. Maybe one day. Third, most high school players don’t play ball after highschool. So if you had a choice to sign up for St. Paul’s, sit the bench and win a title or play for the local Highschool and fight for every chance and nothing is guaranteed. Most kids take the easy way. I coach a kid that is on their 8th grade squad and he loves saying that he will have more state titles than I will. The local kids here just believe that they will win by switching to St. Paul’s. And as long as they do, more will follow. Only way in my opinion for St. Paul’s to be dethroned is for FHS, MHS, CHS, Lakeshore to get their act together. None of these public highschools value soccer. Lakeshore has the best chance being they are in a different division. MHS is trying to rebuild and to rebrand. We greatly improved from last season but left so much on the table. Just imagine how different this argument would be if half the talent stayed at MHS and not switched to St Paul’s after Jr High. Now I’m a new young coach. Can’t promise anything but we are trying like hell to chance the culture and make public schools just as attractive as those great private schools I have to compete with. St. Paul’s, Christ E., HHS, Northlake, PJP. And all of them had great years. The rebranding seemed to go swimmingly in the first round. Rebuild??? Rebrand??? As far as I remember Coach Kyrikides (sp?) Built a very respectable program, your job is to not screw it up!
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Post by firebruin on Feb 26, 2020 22:30:03 GMT -6
Hmm.... Who wants to start a program at Curtis?
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Post by billyslidell88 on Feb 27, 2020 21:58:27 GMT -6
The rebranding seemed to go swimmingly in the first round. Rebuild??? Rebrand??? As far as I remember Coach Kyrikides (sp?) Built a very respectable program, your job is to not screw it up! Finally someone says what we were all thinking reading that post. Honestly it's embarrassing to call Mandeville a rebuild. Most schools around the state would kill to have the amount of club players mandeville has. I don't think anyone expects mandeville to be the next St. Paul, but they have the talent coming in year after year to compete with just about anyone in the state.
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Post by itsallgood on Feb 28, 2020 0:08:17 GMT -6
Rebuild??? Rebrand??? As far as I remember Coach Kyrikides (sp?) Built a very respectable program, your job is to not screw it up! Finally someone says what we were all thinking reading that post. Honestly it's embarrassing to call Mandeville a rebuild. Most schools around the state would kill to have the amount of club players mandeville has. I don't think anyone expects mandeville to be the next St. Paul, but they have the talent coming in year after year to compete with just about anyone in the state. Well said! It is a strong program and Coach Kyriakides is a major reason.
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Post by uhscubs1 on Feb 28, 2020 5:44:15 GMT -6
I think if we split will be true split won’t play each other different Association etc. I think the other sports that are not split is the only reason we have not had a second private association to this point. Which is okay as well. Most of the private schools building facilities for the split. I think that is where it is headed. Select will completely pull out of LHSAA and form their own association. Hope I'm wrong but that seems to be where it is headed.
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Post by Skippers on Feb 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT -6
Rebuild??? Rebrand??? As far as I remember Coach Kyrikides (sp?) Built a very respectable program, your job is to not screw it up! Finally someone says what we were all thinking reading that post. Honestly it's embarrassing to call Mandeville a rebuild. Most schools around the state would kill to have the amount of club players mandeville has. I don't think anyone expects mandeville to be the next St. Paul, but they have the talent coming in year after year to compete with just about anyone in the state. But it is a rebuilding process. We have completely changed the coaching approach to all 3 teams. Perhaps, it didn’t pay off or be reflected this year, but give it time. We do indeed have something special brewing. Slowly trying to make Mandeville High a soccer culture and school. And, yes, thanks to Coach Aris for building the spring board and fabricating the program and its base. And, yes, we are very blessed and excited to have 95% of our boys as club players. Only the future will tell....
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Post by Skippers on Feb 28, 2020 6:44:39 GMT -6
I think if we split will be true split won’t play each other different Association etc. I think the other sports that are not split is the only reason we have not had a second private association to this point. Which is okay as well. Most of the private schools building facilities for the split. I think that is where it is headed. Select will completely pull out of LHSAA and form their own association. Hope I'm wrong but that seems to be where it is headed. Then, it will be, well, I’m the best. No, I’m the best. How about.... I’m the best with these set of rules. And, I’m the best with those set of rules. Until all rules are the same for every school involved, how can anyone say it is fair??
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Post by kevin on Feb 28, 2020 9:02:30 GMT -6
I think if we split will be true split won’t play each other different Association etc. I think the other sports that are not split is the only reason we have not had a second private association to this point. Which is okay as well. Most of the private schools building facilities for the split. I think that is where it is headed. Select will completely pull out of LHSAA and form their own association. Hope I'm wrong but that seems to be where it is headed. I think if we were going to have a full split it would've happened by now. We were closer to bringing things back together this year than ever before. I think there's a good chance that proposals to reunify some of the sports could pass if they can find a way to get a multiplier that works and use it on a sport-by-sport basis where only a simple majority is needed instead of two-thirds. As long as we don't see more sports go to split playoffs, the select schools won't have any more reason to split off. And for everyone who wants to talk about different sets of rules, how about this rule: public schools get to give 100% scholarships to every single student! That's a pretty huge advantage right there. Private schools might have financial aid, but they can't compete with that.
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Post by lovenorthshoresoccer on Feb 28, 2020 10:03:28 GMT -6
I think that is where it is headed. Select will completely pull out of LHSAA and form their own association. Hope I'm wrong but that seems to be where it is headed. Then, it will be, well, I’m the best. No, I’m the best. How about.... I’m the best with these set of rules. And, I’m the best with those set of rules. Until all rules are the same for every school involved, how can anyone say it is fair?? It is interesting that there are 2 public schools playing for the state championship at the highest level this year, one from your school. The winner will simply be the best, not the best with one set of rules or another, but the best. But lets think about this.... is it fair that these teams are heavily populated with club players playing at the highest level? Is it fair that these teams are coached by club coaches who are also highly qualified and active club coaches? There are rules that prevent a coach from coaching a certain number of his own players on a club team, but if we are honest, is it fair to make a team from an area of the state that is not served by one of the big five clubs compete against a team that could be composed almost entirely of high level club players. I go back to my original theory, at least in soccer, training is the issue. Get more kids training younger. You bemoan the fact that there are players from your district playing in private schools, but most of those kids were in private schools from kindergarten and were never going to be your players. Again, figure a way to train more kids and I have a feeling the screams of unfairness will die down.
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