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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 8:43:19 GMT -6
ballshagger: "You seem to have a weird obsession with this topic."
A weird obsession, huh? It's called a preference... and I prefer to see a team concentrate on stringing passes together to play the ball out of the back, move the opponent, and end up scoring one of those team goals where 7 or more players touch the ball before the goal is scored. You know, where more than 3 passes are involved in the build up to the goal? Of course, you're not going to score goals like this every game, but a team that tries to score goals like that will undoubtedly be able to have some success building the ball out of the back, can average 150 completed passes a game, etc.
Look at Ponchatoula's stats provided earlier in this thread by ToulaSoccer. They're averaging over 220 completed passes a game for the season. Yes they lose games even though they're moving the ball. Yes, they aren't able to be as successful against opponents that outmatch them. But, as ToulaSoccer said, he can see his team getting more comfortable on the ball and he backed it up with stats against Mandeville.
Again, I am NOT asking for which teams win the most games.
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Post by yallcrazy on Jan 21, 2021 8:51:35 GMT -6
The answer is none. There are no Louisiana teams that play true possession ball—high school or club. It all devolves to kickball once a team feels any level of pressure. What are you going to do with the list? Why are you collecting screen names of who votes for which team? I sense an ulterior motive here. Anybody have a conspiracy theory of what cooldaddy is really up to here?
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Post by CoachK Nola on Jan 21, 2021 9:02:51 GMT -6
Its hard to play possession when you mercy rule a team by 8 goals in the first half.... (not a targeted comment, just putting it out there)
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Post by use2play on Jan 21, 2021 9:03:06 GMT -6
Mount Carmel - they definitely build from the back and use their goalie a lot more than others!
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Post by ballshagger on Jan 21, 2021 9:13:58 GMT -6
The answer is none. There are no Louisiana teams that play true possession ball—high school or club. It all devolves to kickball once a team feels any level of pressure. What are you going to do with the list? Why are you collecting screen names of who votes for which team? I sense an ulterior motive here. Anybody have a conspiracy theory of what cooldaddy is really up to here? The voting made me uncomfortable also.
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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 9:25:09 GMT -6
The answer is none. There are no Louisiana teams that play true possession ball—high school or club. It all devolves to kickball once a team feels any level of pressure. What are you going to do with the list? Why are you collecting screen names of who votes for which team? I sense an ulterior motive here. Anybody have a conspiracy theory of what cooldaddy is really up to here? I cannot confidently agree with the absolute statement that there are NO teams in LA because I am not familiar with the hundreds of teams in this state at the high school level or club level, but, I will most certainly agree with the fact that a very, very large majority of the teams do not play a possession-based style based on what I've seen over the years. The names of those who have nominated teams are shown to help keep the nominations genuine. Once a team receives 5 or so nominations, I was just going to stop listing names. But, if a person is confident in nominating a team, then they should be confident in standing by their reasoning. An "ulterior motive?" Wow. The purpose of the list is if I want to go watch teams that truly attempt to move the ball, then what teams would that be? And, even more important to me, what teams can move the ball against a good opponent OR still attempt to do so and not change their style to bunker ball, etc?
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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 9:26:54 GMT -6
The answer is none. There are no Louisiana teams that play true possession ball—high school or club. It all devolves to kickball once a team feels any level of pressure. What are you going to do with the list? Why are you collecting screen names of who votes for which team? I sense an ulterior motive here. Anybody have a conspiracy theory of what cooldaddy is really up to here? The voting made me uncomfortable also. Oh my. This is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.
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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 9:32:23 GMT -6
Its hard to play possession when you mercy rule a team by 8 goals in the first half.... (not a targeted comment, just putting it out there) I disagree. Some of the first goals may not be possession-based, but you should be able to tell pretty darn quickly what type of game is in front of you if you're confident of scoring 8 in the 1st half. After a few goals, I'd prefer the winning coach to challenge his players by stringing passes together before scoring. That winning coach may prefer to just get out of there as quickly as possible, but that's the easy way out in my opinion and the individual players won't get much out of the game. Challenge them and make them uncomfortable so they can develop for when they meet stronger opposition.
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Post by dualdellortos on Jan 21, 2021 9:50:52 GMT -6
Over my 30+ years as a HS/College head coach (mostly guys, but currently girls), I have had teams that could keep the ball and teams that couldn't. As a coach, you take the hand your dealt and work it. I would love to have the ball 60% or more of the time every game but that doesn't happen.
This year, using HUDL assist, I am told that we are averaging 44% possession over the course of the season to date. We are 19-1-1.
Pinging it around like Barca or Citeh is great, but killing teams on counters like United and Leicester is also great.
Don't over coach. Figure it out quickly, then focus on your strengths and how to win games. These are high school varsity athletes. 95% of them will never play competitively beyond high school. What on earth would we be developing them for at this point?
Get the DUB!
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Post by Tank on Jan 21, 2021 9:52:34 GMT -6
Todd Lickliter and Brad Stevens - Soaring with your Strengths. Also, the book Soar with your Strengths- Clifton and Nelson
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Post by CoachK Nola on Jan 21, 2021 10:17:33 GMT -6
Its hard to play possession when you mercy rule a team by 8 goals in the first half.... (not a targeted comment, just putting it out there) I disagree. Some of the first goals may not be possession-based, but you should be able to tell pretty darn quickly what type of game is in front of you if you're confident of scoring 8 in the 1st half. After a few goals, I'd prefer the winning coach to challenge his players by stringing passes together before scoring. That winning coach may prefer to just get out of there as quickly as possible, but that's the easy way out in my opinion and the individual players won't get much out of the game. Challenge them and make them uncomfortable so they can develop for when they meet stronger opposition. No I agree with you, I was being sarcastic. If you can beat a team 8-0 in the first half you should 100% be using that valuable game time to practice a possession based offense.
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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 10:17:34 GMT -6
Over my 30+ years as a HS/College head coach (mostly guys, but currently girls), I have had teams that could keep the ball and teams that couldn't. As a coach, you take the hand your dealt and work it. I would love to have the ball 60% or more of the time every game but that doesn't happen. This year, using HUDL assist, I am told that we are averaging 44% possession over the course of the season to date. We are 19-1-1. Pinging it around like Barca or Citeh is great, but killing teams on counters like United and Leicester is also great. Don't over coach. Figure it out quickly, then focus on your strengths and how to win games. These are high school varsity athletes. 95% of them will never play competitively beyond high school. What on earth would we be developing them for at this point? Get the DUB! Thanks for the reply, Coach. Would you mind sharing a bit more info in terms of what your team's average completed passes are per game? You might have 44% possession for the season, but perhaps there are moments in games where you string 10 passes together and complete 200 out of 500 attempted passes. So, I'm curious where your team is in that department (i.e. average completed passes per game over the season). Thanks!
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Post by ballshagger on Jan 21, 2021 10:27:42 GMT -6
Over my 30+ years as a HS/College head coach (mostly guys, but currently girls), I have had teams that could keep the ball and teams that couldn't. As a coach, you take the hand your dealt and work it. I would love to have the ball 60% or more of the time every game but that doesn't happen. This year, using HUDL assist, I am told that we are averaging 44% possession over the course of the season to date. We are 19-1-1. Pinging it around like Barca or Citeh is great, but killing teams on counters like United and Leicester is also great. Don't over coach. Figure it out quickly, then focus on your strengths and how to win games. These are high school varsity athletes. 95% of them will never play competitively beyond high school. What on earth would we be developing them for at this point? Get the DUB! Thanks for the reply, Coach. Would you mind sharing a bit more info in terms of what your team's average completed passes are per game? You might have 44% possession for the season, but perhaps there are moments in games where you string 10 passes together and complete 200 out of 500 attempted passes. So, I'm curious where your team is in that department (i.e. average completed passes per game over the season). Thanks!
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MC2
All-District
Posts: 248
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Post by MC2 on Jan 21, 2021 10:50:23 GMT -6
HS soccer is a different monster in and of itself. I think it's hard to outright say you're going to play a specific style of play until you have your team put together and see what they are capable of doing. I would reinforce my earlier statement, that unless you have an influx of technically sound players who attend your school, it's going to be very difficult to play possession consistently. Look at the schools that have been nominated and you'll see that with the exception of Ponchatoula they are private schools. Not to get into a debate between public and private, but attracting skilled players is a luxury that some private schools have, especially if your program has a proven track record of success. I think if your motive is to want to watch teams that play possession style soccer than maybe the question should be as follows.
I love watching possession style soccer, what teams do you know of that play that style so I can go watch them play?
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Post by dualdellortos on Jan 21, 2021 10:58:52 GMT -6
Here you go. We attempt about 185 passes per game, competing about 125 passes per game. (keep in mind the imperfection of HUDL and our teenage camera operators!)
Most of our pass strings are in the 3-5 pass range. We attempt and complete twice as many passes in the first half as we do in the second. This reflects the make-up of players that we tend to have on the field, especially in the last 20-30 minutes of games where the result is secured, so this really skews the number.
A few schools in LA can go very deep into their bench and maintain a consistent level of play. However, the VAST majority of teams do not have that luxury. For many of them, one or two injuries or quarantines force them to become far more direct than if their entire squad was available. Also, unlike professional clubs with limited substitution, we all like to get as many players into a game as we can without impacting the result, so the style of play will reflect that as the game goes on.
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Post by Tank on Jan 21, 2021 11:05:55 GMT -6
I just wish Miss Anna Montgomery had access to these analyticals. Imagine how much better the Big Green would have played against them Knights. Bring back the Megaphone Coaches! #CoachJay4Life
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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 11:16:49 GMT -6
Here you go. We attempt about 185 passes per game, competing about 125 passes per game. (keep in mind the imperfection of HUDL and our teenage camera operators!) Most of our pass strings are in the 3-5 pass range. We attempt and complete twice as many passes in the first half as we do in the second. This reflects the make-up of players that we tend to have on the field, especially in the last 20-30 minutes of games where the result is secured, so this really skews the number. A few schools in LA can go very deep into their bench and maintain a consistent level of play. However, the VAST majority of teams do not have that luxury. For many of them, one or two injuries or quarantines force them to become far more direct than if their entire squad was available. Also, unlike professional clubs with limited substitution, we all like to get as many players into a game as we can without impacting the result, so the style of play will reflect that as the game goes on. Great reply with examples of things that can affect a team's ability to possess the ball. Thanks for the insight into your team's play.
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Post by kevin on Jan 21, 2021 11:18:59 GMT -6
Go watch Spain in the last World Cup. They were nothing close to beautiful. It was quite boring. Then go watch France with well less than 50% possession. I think most of their scores came after an average of 3-4 very quick passes. Mt Carmel probably led the state in possession for the past 3 years but they didn’t get a trophy for it. The idea that goals come after only a few passes can be misleading sometimes. For anyone in this discussion, I'd highly recommend reading "Inverting the Pyramid" by Jonathan Wilson. It's a great book about how tactics have changed throughout history. One of the things he talks about in discussing the English long-ball mentality is that Charles Reep did a bunch of analysis and declared that most goals are scored from three or fewer passes. But it turns out that an overwhelming majority of sequences in soccer involve three or fewer passes before the ball is turned over, so it's no surprise that a lot of the goals happen that way; and in fact, longer sequences were more likely to lead to goals. You can check the Wikipedia link for more details about it. Also, Mt. Carmel won the two state titles right before the three year period you mention, so I guess their style works pretty well.
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3balz
Data Expert
It's tough to make predictions... especially about the future
Posts: 1,260
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Post by 3balz on Jan 21, 2021 11:48:43 GMT -6
I said I was staying out of it. So I won’t comment.
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Post by Cooldaddy on Jan 21, 2021 12:01:04 GMT -6
Here you go. We attempt about 185 passes per game, competing about 125 passes per game. (keep in mind the imperfection of HUDL and our teenage camera operators!) Most of our pass strings are in the 3-5 pass range. We attempt and complete twice as many passes in the first half as we do in the second. This reflects the make-up of players that we tend to have on the field, especially in the last 20-30 minutes of games where the result is secured, so this really skews the number. A few schools in LA can go very deep into their bench and maintain a consistent level of play. However, the VAST majority of teams do not have that luxury. For many of them, one or two injuries or quarantines force them to become far more direct than if their entire squad was available. Also, unlike professional clubs with limited substitution, we all like to get as many players into a game as we can without impacting the result, so the style of play will reflect that as the game goes on. Great reply with examples of things that can affect a team's ability to possess the ball. Thanks for the insight into your team's play. I've been thinking about dualdellortos comments some more and, to make things a bit less skewed for the various reasons he mentions as well as mercy rulings causing shorter game lengths, I'd be happy to know of teams that on average complete 75 passes in the 1st half of games throughout their season.
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