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Post by time2retire on Feb 3, 2021 8:14:11 GMT -6
2015-16: 104
2016-17: 154
2017-18: 170
2018-19: 166
2019-20: 164
2020-21: 170
Serious Foul Play: 12
Violent Conduct (non fighting): 21
Violent Conduct (fighting, includes coming off the bench): 41
Abusive Language or Gestures: 35
Denying Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity by Foul: 8
Denying Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity by Handling: 5
Two Cautions: 43
Taunting: 3
Spitting: 1
Unknown (referee wrote code on his sheet instead of standard): 1
157 were to players, and 13 were to coaches
Boys varsity: 130
Girls varsity: 33
Boys JV: 5
Girls JV: 2
Six players had two or more red cards. Of these six, two players were ineligible - one for two fighting, and one for three red cards.
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Post by beasleyisbeastly on Feb 3, 2021 14:29:47 GMT -6
Interesting stat. Would like to see how many games were played. Got anything team specific?
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Post by Cooldaddy on Feb 3, 2021 14:37:20 GMT -6
Significant jump between the 1st two seasons listed. Do we know why? Were new rules enforced or were the refs "clamping down" on existing rules? Outside of the soccer field, first thing that comes to mind is the flood of 2016 happened between those two seasons which would have a psychological effect on players and families for sure. But, not sure if that really carried over onto the soccer fields.
Can anyone provide some insight in the jump in numbers between the 1st two seasons? Thanks.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 3, 2021 15:01:07 GMT -6
Significant jump between the 1st two seasons listed. Do we know why? Were new rules enforced or were the refs "clamping down" on existing rules? Outside of the soccer field, first thing that comes to mind is the flood of 2016 happened between those two seasons which would have a psychological effect on players and families for sure. But, not sure if that really carried over onto the soccer fields. Can anyone provide some insight in the jump in numbers between the 1st two seasons? Thanks. My best guess is that online reporting started when I started keeping stats, and I know that not all red cards were being reported back then |
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Post by time2retire on Feb 3, 2021 15:04:51 GMT -6
Interesting stat. Would like to see how many games were played. Got anything team specific? I do have more in-depth analysis - every player, school, disqualification type, etc - even which referee issued the card. But I think it doesn't do any good to say Crawfish Academy got 20 red cards this year, or Winchestertonfieldville Referee Group gave 55 red cards this season. |
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Post by Rabid Monkey on Feb 3, 2021 16:39:43 GMT -6
Interesting stat. Would like to see how many games were played. Got anything team specific? I do have more in-depth analysis - every player, school, disqualification type, etc - even which referee issued the card. But I think it doesn't do any good to say Crawfish Academy got 20 red cards this year, or Winchestertonfieldville Referee Group gave 55 red cards this season. You gotta watch the Winchestertonfieldville Referee Group, they are very very sneaky. |
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Post by smee on Feb 5, 2021 9:54:48 GMT -6
Interesting stat. Would like to see how many games were played. Got anything team specific? I do have more in-depth analysis - every player, school, disqualification type, etc - even which referee issued the card. But I think it doesn't do any good to say Crawfish Academy got 20 red cards this year, or Winchestertonfieldville Referee Group gave 55 red cards this season. Do you have a breakdown of experience and number of red cards issued? I have seen far too many inexperienced referees and ARs insisting that situation "x" MUST be punished with a red / yellow card. I know I show much fewer cards than I used to, and try to manage players more. There is a nonsense that says referees are like police and can only punish and not prevent bad things from happening. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure any day. Talking with players (in multiple different tones) can prevent things from escalating. |
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2021 10:09:56 GMT -6
I do have more in-depth analysis - every player, school, disqualification type, etc - even which referee issued the card. But I think it doesn't do any good to say Crawfish Academy got 20 red cards this year, or Winchestertonfieldville Referee Group gave 55 red cards this season. Do you have a breakdown of experience and number of red cards issued? I have seen far too many inexperienced referees and ARs insisting that situation "x" MUST be punished with a red / yellow card. I know I show much fewer cards than I used to, and try to manage players more. There is a nonsense that says referees are like police and can only punish and not prevent bad things from happening. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure any day. Talking with players (in multiple different tones) can prevent things from escalating. List had a mix of familiar names and new names. Knock on wood - I haven’t had one in a school game since early November 2019. Agreed that we can (sometimes) prevent future misconduct without the card. That typically comes with experience and feeling what a player responds to. Cards are meant to modify behaviors and there are times when that can be accomplished without the plastic. And sometimes our hands are tied and we have no choice. Ask around which cautions are mandatory and which are discretionary and I think we both know about what % would get those right. |
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Post by louisianasoccerfan on Feb 5, 2021 14:19:39 GMT -6
It would be interesting to de-identify the school and the ref to see if there are any outliers. I bet there are some fun statistical regressions that could identify significant deviations. Could be a tool to help train up refs and also show coaches that they need to get better control of their teams. Also separate the type of foul by boys and girls.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2021 14:48:49 GMT -6
It would be interesting to de-identify the school and the ref to see if there are any outliers. I bet there are some fun statistical regressions that could identify significant deviations. Could be a tool to help train up refs and also show coaches that they need to get better control of their teams. Also separate the type of foul by boys and girls. What outliers are you trying to find? I have the data |
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Post by OPHSLadyLions on Feb 5, 2021 19:38:26 GMT -6
I was extremely surprised that the numbers were that high. This was the cleanest year I’ve been a part of. Saw 1 red all year for DOGSO on GK handball out of box.
I was present for a red in a girls JV game. That was on the opposing coach. Wonder if that was counted...
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Post by time2retire on Feb 5, 2021 19:39:55 GMT -6
I was extremely surprised that the numbers were that high. This was the cleanest year I’ve been a part of. Saw 1 red all year for DOGSO on GK handball out of box. I was present for a red in a girls JV game. That was on the opposing coach. Wonder if that was counted... It was. I remember that one. |
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Post by dogso on Feb 5, 2021 20:21:02 GMT -6
Violent Conduct (fighting, includes coming off the bench): 41
Abusive Language or Gestures: 35
These are "lack of control" sanctions. Looking back on some past years, VC is up, very disconcerting.
Would be curious as to how many of these came from teams whose coaches also saw red. My thought the apple doesn't fall far from the tree....
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Post by time2retire on Feb 7, 2021 19:12:47 GMT -6
Violent Conduct (fighting, includes coming off the bench): 41 Abusive Language or Gestures: 35 These are "lack of control" sanctions. Looking back on some past years, VC is up, very disconcerting. Would be curious as to how many of these came from teams whose coaches also saw red. My thought the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.... Coach "A" had 3 players sent off for VCF Coach "B" had 1 player sent off for AL Coach "C" had 1 player sent off for AL Coach "D" didn't have any players sent off for anything Coach "E" didn't have any players sent off for these infractions Coach "F" had 1 player sent off for VCF Coach "G" didn't have any players sent off for these infractions Coach "H" had 1 player sent off for AL but several for VC (non-fighting) Coach "I" didn't have any players sent off for these infractions Coach "J" didn't have any players sent off for anything Coach "K" didn't have any players sent off for anything Coach "L" didn't have any players sent off for anything Coach "M" didn't have any players sent off for these infractions |
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Post by MiaSanMia on Feb 9, 2021 10:40:41 GMT -6
Violent Conduct (fighting, includes coming off the bench): 41 Abusive Language or Gestures: 35 These are "lack of control" sanctions. Looking back on some past years, VC is up, very disconcerting. Would be curious as to how many of these came from teams whose coaches also saw red. My thought the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.... These "lack of control" sanctions, I think (just my own opinion) are more a derivative of parent/spectator behavior than coaching. I was having a conversation recently with a coach that was verbalizing his frustration about his parents' obnoxious behavior and comments coming from the bleachers. This was a school that I had seen before, but a different team. So I have seen both the boys and girls varsity teams from this particular school in one capacity or another (spectator and referee) this season. I can say that the behavior from this school's crowd is consistently abhorrent across both teams. Coach went on about the frustration about the comments, because those comments seem to have a psychological effect on the players and their subsequent behavior on the field, which sometimes has a snowball effect into the topic. His final thought is that "they think they pay $5 and can say and do whatever the F... they want."
The apple not falling far from the tree analogy is accurate in my opinion. But in my experience the tree is the parents, not the coaches.
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Post by Formerhcpops on Feb 9, 2021 11:10:07 GMT -6
This is a valuable data set that could help inform coaches and schools about where to apply more guidance and coaching - the good kind. I'm guessing you have reservations about sharing the complete data for a variety of legitimate reasons but I'm wondering if school-specific data could be extracted and shared with coach(es) and/or school admin to identify trouble spots and trends from year to year.
I'm a data guy and always appreciate the effort that goes into capturing and organizing it so thank you for doing so.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was an uptick in all infractions this year given the cuckoo year 2020 was on so many fronts - and 2021 continues. It'd be fascinating to dig deeper but I understand not publishing. Sociologists and behavioral scientists would have a field day with this data. It'd actually would be a great graduate thesis: the on-field behavioral impact of COVID and other stressors of 2020 on youth sports including players, coaches, and officials - and parents.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 9, 2021 11:26:53 GMT -6
I would be open to sharing that information with a school about themselves (they should already know), and general information about others. One concern I have is that if I say Crawfish Academy got 20 red cards that no one would want to play Crawfish Academy next year - players and parents cycle thru and attitudes change from year to year
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Post by Formerhcpops on Feb 9, 2021 12:06:48 GMT -6
I would be open to sharing that information with a school about themselves (they should already know), and general information about others. One concern I have is that if I say Crawfish Academy got 20 red cards that no one would want to play Crawfish Academy next year - players and parents cycle thru and attitudes change from year to year Agree, meant to suggest school data shared just with the subject school. The complete data set loose in the wild would be a very bad idea and bring about many unintended consequences; perhaps even worse than opening the gates on referee-specific data. Again, good on you for capturing and tracking the data so the refs can be coached and guided. I know of no one in any profession who is perfect everyday, some are just more subjected to public scrutiny in the course of doing said job.
Confession: I often express my dissent with calls I see differently, sometimes unkindly. Such is life when emotionally involved in competitive outcomes whether as player or parent - humans can be an irrational bunch. I often get a ration of !@#$ when I get things wrong in my work, it's just not from strangers on a field or in a stadium. Here's to you for taking on the challenging and vital role.
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deputybalsamic
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Post by deputybalsamic on Feb 10, 2021 8:15:24 GMT -6
I like these red card stats. Let’s try to get to over 200 next year
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Post by time2retire on Feb 10, 2021 8:26:14 GMT -6
I like these red card stats. Let’s try to get to over 200 next year We can only do this with the very best referees. Tell your pals to sign up! |
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