nikademus
Starter
"i know this place around the corner you can buy some skills"
Posts: 75
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Post by nikademus on Feb 16, 2005 22:11:50 GMT -6
so you don't get upset when an American kid takes a dive? I don't see what race has to do with taking a dive. race? he never said anything about race. i think you mean nationality.
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Post by McScruff on Feb 16, 2005 22:17:31 GMT -6
same thing
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Post by takeitdowntown1 on Feb 16, 2005 22:41:21 GMT -6
There can be many different races with the same Nationality.
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Post by Bish on Feb 16, 2005 22:44:27 GMT -6
Yeah because when people bash Americans, the first thing I think of is "What a Racist!" Wait...
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Post by Gator_Runner83 on Feb 16, 2005 22:45:37 GMT -6
Nope that's not what I was referring too. Keep trying, I hope you find it. Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game 12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING The offense known as "handling the ball" involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player's hand or arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). "Deliberate contact" means that the player could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player's arms were not in a normal playing position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is subsequent action to direct or control the ball. The fact that a player may benefit from the ball contacting the hand does not transform the otherwise accidental event into an infringement. A player infringes the Law regarding handling the ball even if direct contact is avoided by holding something in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.). 12.10 RULE OF THUMB FOR "HANDLING" The rule of thumb for referees is that it is handling if the player plays the ball, but not handling if the ball plays the player. The referee should punish only deliberate handling of the ball, meaning only those actions when the player (and not the goalkeeper within his own penalty area) strikes or propels the ball with his hand or arm (shoulder to tip of fingers). 12.11 USE OF THE SHOULDER For purposes of determining deliberate handling of the ball, the "hand" is considered to be any part of the arm-hand from fingertip to shoulder. Using the top of the shoulder is not considered as using the hand. (A diagram showing the area of “the hand” is shown below.) Laws of the Game Made Easy Law 12: Deliberately handling the ball with any part of the hand or arm (goalkeepers are allowed to do this if they are within their own penalty area). 2004-2005 NFHS Soccer Rules Book Rule 12, Section 2 Article 1: A player shall be penalized for deliberately handling, carrying, striking, or propelling the ball with a hand or arm. EXCEPTION: Goalkeeper within his/her own penalty area. (12-7-1) PENALTY: Direct Free Kick RULE 12, SECTION 2 – PLAY RULINGS: 12.12.1 Situation A- A player who is part of a wall in a free kick, moves the hands after the kick to protect his/her face from the ball. RULING: This is a foul for deliberately handling the ball. 12.12.1 Situation B- A player who is in a defensive position during the taking of a free kick places hands or arms against any part of the body for protection. The offensive players kicks the ball which strikes the hands still in front of the body or arms over the chest. In both cases, the arms are stationary. RULING: This is not handling because the ball struck a stationary hand or arm rather than a hand or arm playing the ball. 12.12.1 Situation C- A1 kicks a low hard pass to his/her teammate; (a) B1, a male player who is in the path of the ball, moves his hands to protect his groin and the ball touches his hand; (b) B1, a female player who is in the path of the ball, mover her hand to protect her chest and the ball touches her hand. RULING: Illegal in both (a) and (b) for deliberately handling the ball. 12.12.1 Situation D- A1 takes a shot on goal and goalkeeper B1 is outstretched on the ground and reaches outside the penalty area and touches the ball. RULING: Illegal. 2004 FIFA Laws of the Game A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following four offences: • handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area).
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Post by bouree on Feb 16, 2005 22:45:57 GMT -6
Nope that's not what I was referring too. Keep trying, I hope you find it. As of 2005, there is no such ruling. My previous posts are 100% correct.
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Post by McScruff on Feb 16, 2005 22:46:52 GMT -6
Race can cover nationality as well...as in, the German race.
race - A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution
anyway, this has gone WAY off topic...I was just trying to help you to avoid stereotyping people.
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Post by PAUL McCOY on Feb 16, 2005 22:49:03 GMT -6
please continue your race/nationality discussion in private
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Post by McScruff on Feb 16, 2005 22:49:59 GMT -6
haha...agreed
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Post by McScruff on Feb 16, 2005 23:02:37 GMT -6
wow, that is really good to know. You refs shouldn't be telling everyone all these rules, though...now I'll have more ammunition for an argument the next time a ref calls me for a handball. ;D
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Post by PAUL McCOY on Feb 16, 2005 23:04:17 GMT -6
it would be nice if all of the refs read this to refresh their understanding of the rules
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Post by McScruff on Feb 16, 2005 23:08:57 GMT -6
would you say that the majority of handballs called are called incorrectly? I can think of very few times that it has been called where it was deliberate. Most of them that come to mind have been to prevent a goal which almost always is called.
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Post by Bish on Feb 16, 2005 23:21:44 GMT -6
Yeah, I agree with McScruff. Most to all handballs that are called are NOT deliberate. Why doesn't somebody find the rule and post exactly what it says.
In fact, let's just start stereotyping genders and races. It's much more fun.
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Post by Bish on Feb 16, 2005 23:29:59 GMT -6
Here you go www.thepitch.org/text/a11.htmLaw XII governs Fouls and Misconduct and lists offenses which are punished by awarding a direct free kick to the opposing team. Among them is intentionally handles the ball, i.e., carries, strikes or propels the ball with his hand or arm; (this does not apply to the goalkeeper within his own penalty-area). Note the verbs used: "carries," "strikes," and "propels." The player must take deliberate action to hit the ball with their hand. There are several instances where the ball and hand make contact and no foul is or should be called. Many young players are taught that it is okay for a boy to cross his hands in front of his groin and for a girl to protect her chest with her forearms. This rule frequently is extended to pre-adolescent players protecting their face with a reflexive response to a hard, close kick. As long as they do not move their hands or arms toward the ball, a foul generally isn't called. However, I have seen girls start with their hands pulled to their chest, and as a high ball gets closer their arms raise up to meet it. That should be called and the referee should, in most cases (see the advantage clause below), award a direct free kick for handling the ball deliberately. Have you ever watched an MLS or World Cup game? Even professional players will protect parts of their bodies with the hand and arm. If a ball were to strike a defender's hands while in front of the groin, no referee would ever call a foul. And many youth leagues (all should) extend that principle to protecting the face. Most players under the age of 10-12 should not even be learning to head a ball because of the risk of injury to the neck. A young player's Involuntary reaction to protect the face should never be penalized. The more common scenarios are the bad hop and the player who is struck on the hand or arm by a ball coming in from behind. Invariably, one sideline starts yelling at the referee, demanding a handball be called. But the ball struck the player. There was never a deliberate attempt to play the ball with the hand. The rule of thumb is "Was the ball moving to hand, or hand moving to ball?" If the ball moved to the hand (or arm) then it was not deliberate and should not be called. If the hand or arm moved to meet and play the ball, then it probably was deliberate and should in most cases be called. In some cases, particularly with younger players, deliberate intent truly is a judgement call on the part of the official. Did the player intentionally move and use a hand or arm to control the ball, or just protecting himself or herself? Parents must learn to trust the referee's judgement in these cases, and recognize that the whistle should not be blown every time hand and ball make contact.
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Post by takeitdowntown1 on Feb 17, 2005 8:04:05 GMT -6
Funny that someone who admits he hasn't read a rulebook in 12 years would argue the rules from what he thinks he remembers. Since when does a few years ago equal 12 years. I believe I said that I saw it in the rule book a few years ago. Maybe you should brush up on your comprehension skills.
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Post by Gator_Runner83 on Feb 17, 2005 9:08:17 GMT -6
How did a simple board on often misunderstood laws of the game or calls made by referees turn into what looks like a game that would be out of control and most likely terminated?
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Post by takeitdowntown1 on Feb 17, 2005 9:12:24 GMT -6
I think this is a good topic because everyone is learning something. And some of the rules are being clarified.
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Post by outsidelookingin on Feb 17, 2005 12:15:51 GMT -6
Bouree is right on all of his posts but one, and that was the first when he spoke of obstruction. Obstruction is not in any language in the rule book. I think the exact wording is "impedes the progress of his opponent". It doesn't matter if the player has no intention of playing the ball, but that he is within playing distance. Example would be a defender shielding a ball that is going to roll over the goal line for a goal kick. He has every right to shield the ball away from the attacker, even though he has no intention of playing the ball.
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Post by bouree on Feb 17, 2005 12:55:30 GMT -6
it would be nice if all of the refs read this to refresh their understanding of the rules I totally agree with you futbol16...
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Post by bouree on Feb 17, 2005 13:02:17 GMT -6
Bouree is right on all of his posts but one, and that was the first when he spoke of obstruction. Obstruction is not in any language in the rule book. I think the exact wording is "impedes the progress of his opponent". It doesn't matter if the player has no intention of playing the ball, but that he is within playing distance. Example would be a defender shielding a ball that is going to roll over the goal line for a goal kick. He has every right to shield the ball away from the attacker, even though he has no intention of playing the ball. Good point 'outside'. I should have stated either he intended to play the ball or possibly could play the ball. When a defender "walks" the ball over the goal line with an attacker on his back, this is NOT "obstruction". In the defender's mind he is not intending to play the ball, but to the referee, he may play the ball. (Remember, we cannot read minds, we ref what we see) As for the terminology, this thread is to educate those who are not referees (for the most part). I am using language the players, fans and coaches use on the field. Have you ever heard a player yell to the referee "Hey Ref, he/she is impeding my progress".
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