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Post by soccermom on Feb 10, 2011 19:40:43 GMT -6
thank you for all of your responses. It really does help me understand a little better.
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Post by extreemesoccer on Feb 10, 2011 20:05:34 GMT -6
Soccermom, Coaching highschool soccer is not easy and most coaches are not compensated nearly enough (if anything) for the time and effort they put into coaching the girls and dealing with parents! Your questions and concerns seem to be about decisions your child's coach is making about another player. If you are taking your coach's response to you confronting him about this as being a whiney parent, you are probably getting the right vibes! I advise to all parents and players to take a breath and really think about their concerns and what the true concerns are before discussing (NEVER CONFRONTING) them with the coach. WHat do you plan to accomplish? Are your concerns legitimate? If you are a player, are you putting 100% into every practice and game? If you are planning to discuss another player getting too much playing time with me, as the coach, I would not take this lightly. You would be out of line! I would quickly tell you so and ask if there is something we need to discuss that deals with your player.
As far as a player playing both varsity and jv....... If they are still developing, it helps to bring them to the slower paced game where they can not only learn some finess, but also to teach the less developed player.
Always remember team sports are not a democracy! The coach has final say and everything coming from the parents or players are just opinions and the opinions should be thought through before being expressed! No one said life is always fair and you have to fight and play hard if you want to be a varsity player in any sport!
As for the freshman just wasting time playing on the team. If your team is anything like all of the teams I have seen, it would be a heck of a way to waste time! Practices are tough and games are brutal! I can't imagine anyone playing or earning play time on a varsity team by just hanging around wasting time! Maybe she deserves a little more credit than she is getting.
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Post by soccermom on Feb 10, 2011 21:14:32 GMT -6
Extremesoccer: I spoke with the coach once and it wasn't even about this player so I'm not whiney..thank you. I'm hearing stories from other parents who have had to deal with him for the last 2,3 and 4 yrs. Not that she's wasting time but her passion is not soccer. She's just there to have fun. So it is hard to watch kids who live eat and breath soccer sit the bench. I've watched alot of these girls grow up playing soccer, I know their dedication and hard work. They will fight thru this and become a better player and person b/c of it.
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Post by lcpsoccermom on Feb 10, 2011 21:41:48 GMT -6
I appreciate it's difficult to see someone start over girls who are dedicated to soccer. However, varsity athletics are not about fair. Gifts are given to individuals in an unequitable manner. My daughter, who lives and breathes soccer, is short, has small feet, and lacks good flexibility in her ankles. She has to work through all these issues in order to be as good as the player who is gifted with height, flexibility and more natural speed. It never comes easy for her. There is another player on our team who is a naturally gifted athlete. Her passion is swimming. But she has always started and is a tremendous asset to our team. Are there other players more dedicated to just soccer, yes. But our team depends on this player and her amazing physical gifts. She is committed to this team even though she plays on it "to have fun". Part of becoming a team is appreciating the different gifts that each player brings-Thank God for those players who have been given such gifts if they choose to share those gifts on the team that my daughter plays on!
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Post by jdaddy2 on Feb 11, 2011 9:00:07 GMT -6
Well said extreme. I have been coaching HS soccer for a while now and it never gets any easier. If you are worth your salt, you have to balance so many different aspects of the program it can make your head spin.
Teaching the girls I work with that while winning is ultimately the biggest thing we are aiming for, we will not do it at any cost because there are so many other aspects of being a student athlete that are more important such as making good grades, behaving well in class, working hard day in a day out, and always representing your community well.
As a fan, I often find myself watching football and screaming at the coach for calling some bonehead play, but I have no idea what goes on in that program day in and day out or what decisions he is having to make due to simple bruises or matchups on the field. Not everything in this world is clear and simple....
But some things are: 1. Varsity time is never just given away, especially in must win games and you have said this girl played every varsity game. So quite simply, she must have earned it perhaps by filling a team need.
2. Pompey said it earlier, "You can't teach speed." If speedy player A gets to 90% of the plays that come her but can only connect 50% of her passes after that while slower player B can only get to 40% of the plays before the play passes her up but when she does get the ball, 80% of her passes make it to their target, Player A will always get the call for me simply because she has more impact on the game.
3. Just because a player has been playing for more years than someone else, doesn't actually mean she will be better. I have played golf since I was 12, yet I am still terrible. By the sheer number of rounds I have played, I have to be considered very experienced, but my wife who is a natural athlete and can beat me only having played a handfull of times in her life. Just look at the N.O. Saints tight end Jimmy Graham to see what is possible for a true athlete with very little experience.
4. No parent should ever ask a coach about a player who is not their child....and the correct questions to ask should sound something like this: "What can my child do to get better?"
5. Every good coach centers the program around development....not winning. It's very doubtful that your coach cares about winning jv games simply because most HS coaches don't. By its very nature, it is a place for development. So if this freshman were playing both varsity and jv, it was most likely based on the idea of getting her more time. JV is a tool at the coach's disposal.
6. In a quality HS program, especially one with good numbers, every game minute is hard fought. Ask Mt. Carmel's JV if they get to whine about not playing. I would venture to say that every single girl on that team would be a varsity star at 80% of the high schools in this state....not to mention some of the girls that they cut! You want jv minutes in that program, you better show up everyday. If your program has enough jv girls to be sitting the bench, then there is probably some good competition going on for those jv minutes.
7. And finally, heart and dedication alone can't get it done. Ask Rudy Rudiger. While I believe you can't win without it, heart can't be all you have. So your child loves the game more than speedy freshman. Does Speedy Gonzales work hard and do what she is supposed to? If so, is the coach supposed to play someone over her simply because they love the game of soccer more? That's not how hs soccer works.
The last thing I would add is that usually the proof is in the pudding. Did the young lady in question get better as the season progressed? What about the rest of the young players on the team? If we assume that this is a quality coach with a quality program, then we would assume his focus is about player development. In that case, I would venture to say that the development of most of the young players especially would be evident at the end of the season. Were any of the other younger players challenging for varsity spots towards the end of the season? Was your daughter?
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Post by keepernut on Feb 11, 2011 9:47:27 GMT -6
Interesting to see all the coaches come running out to defend coaches.
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a bad HS coach? What should be done about bad coaches? According to the above all the parents should sit down and shut up and all the kids should "just ask how they can work harder".
You guys have missed the entire premise that there are a large number of very poor coaches.
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Post by griffDad on Feb 11, 2011 11:02:35 GMT -6
Interesting to see all the coaches come running out to defend coaches. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a bad HS coach? What should be done about bad coaches? According to the above all the parents should sit down and shut up and all the kids should "just ask how they can work harder". You guys have missed the entire premise that there are a large number of very poor coaches. Actually, the premise is "why would a coach play a player that does not conform to MY definition of who should play". Just because a player does not "eat, drink and live soccer" does not mean they cannot be an excellent player. Many top athletes compete in multiple sports(Volleyball, Softball and track as an example) as well as have interests and activities away from the field.
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Post by offsides on Feb 11, 2011 12:12:52 GMT -6
Interesting to see all the coaches come running out to defend coaches. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a bad HS coach? What should be done about bad coaches? According to the above all the parents should sit down and shut up and all the kids should "just ask how they can work harder". You guys have missed the entire premise that there are a large number of very poor coaches. I get it, soccermom. Coaches have the ability to crush the spirit of coachable players with lots of heart. Seen it done. Many girls will walk away when they feel it is unfair. There is not a lot of time in high school soccer to "train". There are games to be played and winning games is important in a brief amount of time. The statement varsity spots are not just given away is not true all of the time. There are as many variables involved in high school soccer as in club. As much as we all want to pat ourselves on the back and say it is for the kids, I have seen players,teams coaches, and clubs,destroyed by adult politics. Often times it is all about MY kid, instead of OUR kids, the team. Not disagreeing with the posted comments, just pointing out...sometimes coaches wear blinders....and forget girls are not boys and don't respond to the same motivation tactics. Oh and yes, keepernut, parents should just sit down, shut up and keep turning in those checks! ;D
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Post by lasoccerprep on Feb 11, 2011 12:49:20 GMT -6
Girls HS soccer is a difficult gig for an experienced or newbie coach. The world (parents & coaches) thinks it's kick and run until you see a group of tactical experienced players that have the technical and athletic ability to perform the complete game.. The technical is foot skills, dribbling, kicking, headers, throw-ins-- all aspects of the game. Other teams may be faster but will never beat the technical, athletic and tactical team. NEVER! MOST of these skills must be learned at an early age (like riding a bike, breathing- must come natural) and many can't learn it efficently if not by 12-13 years old.... It's a fact. Look at the good Div I, HS teams today; MCA 20 club or premier players, DHS 18, SSA 15, MSC 15, FB, NS SH etc, etc. They play exceptional soccer despite a good or bad coach. They've played the game 5 to 10 years. It comes natural. Who should the caoch play? Absolutely the best total player from any grade. Schools, kids and parents want to WIN. HS is not for development. We (coaches) can try but that needs to be done at club and on their own.. We need to develop TEAM not player. It takes months and years to be an above average player. On my roster, I had great 8th graders and beginner seniors... The 8th grader played better soccer at 4'2" than the 5'8" senior. But HS is what it is. Some schools have many players to choose from. Others like me. 5 premier players(8th-12th), 7 D1 (some good,ok, some very green), 5 newbies. SO let's go to practice after school. What a challenge? The premier kids are bored, the D1 OK, the newbies are lost. Or the P in sync and all others are lost? Or, I break them down. Teaching U-10 toe touches and foot skills to newbies, Teaching the D1 how to play tactically as a team, and Teaching the Premier kids how to cover all the other weakness but still do their thing!! TRY to set that training session up.... What a challenge as a coach... All you soocer parents (especially those that never play or follow the game) should respect that dilema. A good coach gets the most out of that situation. REMEMBER the #1, GOLDEN RULE of COACHING results" Coaches loose and players WIN......just ask any parent..... I luv all my kids (and parents) and just hope their soccer experience was FUN! PS, you can't teach speed, you can only refine it. More importantly I do hope to teach, "HEART".... Keep Kickin, Luv My Girls (Club & HS)
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Post by Mung on Feb 11, 2011 13:01:42 GMT -6
Not a coach, just a fan in Cenla. Coaching HS girls takes a really special person with the patience of Job. Given that, I don't question their decisions, and most will try to put the best team on the pitch. Around here the best girls' teams are the ones that field the most players that play soccer year 'round. D1, rec, ODP, whatever, they need to be on the pitch for more than just the HS season to develop. We have some excellent coaches at schools that field only HS season players, and their teams are poor. LHSAA rules preventing HS coaches from having more than 6 of their kids on a rec/D1/premier team almost destroyed our older age group female teams here in Cenla. Few coaches for the older girls. HS Girls are way different, and most must be encouraged(forced) to play year round, by coaches or parents, b/c they have a gazillion other things they like to be doing.
Anyhow, to your premise, seems like there are more poor teams than coaches. All coaches want to win in the brief season before playoffs, so they put the best players on the field. Sometimes that is a less dedicated but more physically gifted player. It ain't just in soccer(see Terrell Owens, Allen Iverson, etc.).
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Post by davesoccer on Feb 11, 2011 13:02:28 GMT -6
As a HS coach I am like many others here. I always try to develop players from day one. That development takes place on the practice field, weight room, in scrimmages, tournaments, etc., and not just games. However, by the time game day rolls around, I pretty much know which players will be on the field based on the quality of the opponent. The slower more experienced player may not play as much depending on how well they performed during the development opportunities previously mentioned. The faster player, although younger, has the same opportunity to perform and earn a spot on the field during the game. Given the soccer skills (ability to read the game, among others) are equal, the faster player will most likely get the carrot. The decision belongs to the coach. I do what is best for the team at game time.
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Post by bhssoccercoach on Feb 11, 2011 13:20:59 GMT -6
Interesting to see all the coaches come running out to defend coaches. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a bad HS coach? What should be done about bad coaches? According to the above all the parents should sit down and shut up and all the kids should "just ask how they can work harder". You guys have missed the entire premise that there are a large number of very poor coaches. I don't think there are that many "bad coaches" out there. Some, sure, but not the majority. There are also some who may not know as much about the sport as others. I can't tell you how many hours I have in a program that I have received EXACTLY $0 from. I juggle a full-time job, 3 daughters of my own, 17 hours of college (so I can teach/coach full-time) and still made time to get an 18 game schedule arranged, re-arrange games, get up early so i could get off work early and practice, buy soccer balls out of my own pocket and the list goes on. Do you think any parent from my team has a right to criticize me?? I don't. Even if they do, I know at the end of the day I have done far more than anyone else probably would, and they probably get paid for it. I do it because I love the sport, I love teaching it, and I love the fact that I am a positive male role model for my girls. So step up to the plate keepernut; if there's that many poor coaches out there, step up and do it yourself. Gotta warn you though, the pay sucks and the weather is always horrible!
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xavi
All-District
50%
Posts: 103
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Post by xavi on Feb 11, 2011 14:00:26 GMT -6
I am sure that the term 'bad coaches' does not have a place in the discussion, overall. I think perceptions of the quality of coach is relative to the club experience players may have. Players and their families who have been brought up and trained through a club system will very often run into School coaches that leave them scratching their collective heads. Does this mean that the school coach is bad, I say no. I know some of the non-clubbers out there will be quick to disagree, but look at your quarterfinals groupings. More often then not the teams that are progressing either have A) rosters fortified by d1 and premier players that most can coach to success B) club coaches that have experience to quickly develop a stategically successful squad or C) both. I personally do not think it is proper to critique coaches that have made the commitment without first stepping up to the line, and trust me, my daughter got a strong taste of the bitter difference between club and school. In the end from the club view it will be the exception to be fortunate to have a school coach that is as competant as the club coaches your daughters and sons have had, and if you do, count your blessings. If you do not, do not sweat it, State Cup prelims are just around the corner.
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leavingla
Bench Warmer
We dont use fist. We just use heads.
Posts: 13
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Post by leavingla on Feb 11, 2011 15:08:59 GMT -6
After reading several post from coaches, they all stated that developing players are the most important thing to them as coaches, but many high school coaches do not have any kind of licenses or certifications to coach soccer. Do you think that it should be a requirement that high school coaches should recieve a certain level certification to soccer like club coaches do to properly develop these players?
Its true that development of players is most important thing to a coach and these high school soccer coach may believe they are developing their players, but without proper education about coaching soccer, these coaches may not know how to correctly develop good soccer players.
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Post by soccerwarrior on Feb 11, 2011 16:34:24 GMT -6
I do think getting the certifications is key! I became a much better coach once I started goingn to the courses because I started looking at the game differently. Most people believe that if I can play the sport, I can coach it. NOT TRUE! Seeing the game from the sideline and learning how to coach takes time, trials, mistakes, setting your ego aside from time to time, and guidance. That being said, it is hard to get already busy people to commit to taking more courses. We would lose coaches in numbers (some losses would be beneficial.). It was beautifully put earlier "the pay sucks and the weather is always terrible.". Summary: certifications would greatly increase our coaching talent, but requirements on levels would also drop our numbers.
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Post by mswilb on Feb 11, 2011 19:25:17 GMT -6
Just out of curiosity, why is this thread in which the judgement, competency, and fairness of coaches be allowed to continue. If all of these people were talking about referee's they would have already been sentenced to laprep prison
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Post by griffDad on Feb 11, 2011 20:02:22 GMT -6
Aliceshoe1, what about having players with D1 club experience? I noticed that alot of the points about experience all seem to center around Premier/Select.
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Post by Ronaldinho on Feb 11, 2011 20:50:04 GMT -6
Club coaches develop players. High school coaches find ways to win games. High school soccer is not about development - there isn't enough time, and the coach has to concentrate his efforts on bringing his team together while figuring how to get results. The clubs are where player development is important and possible. For serious club players, high school soccer is basically a fun period where they get to be the star among their classmates using the skills they have ALREADY learned from years of club experience...unless their team is full of excellent club players, and then it's really competitive. The rest of the players can hopefully learn from their coach fundamental techniques and team organization, things not too complicated to teach, but high school soccer is not meant for true player development. Player development is not even on my mind during the high school season - the guy just needs to get the players to play for each other, get as many wins as possible for an enjoyable season, and keep the girls in shape so they can start club season strong in the spring, and I'll be happy.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 11, 2011 23:41:22 GMT -6
Have you ever seen a bad HS coach? 99% of the coaches are out there for the team, doing the best with what they have in knowledge and players to work with. Coaching such players sometimes involves more of controlling egos (including parents) than teaching talent. The statement above speaks volumes for how sports have gone, especially soccer. The best you can hope for on "what a parent wants" is 50% its about my kid to 50% its about the team. I break it down like this: Premier/Select - 98% about my kid & 2% about what the team can do to help my kid be seen D1 - 80-90% about my kid & 20-10% about the team Rec - 75% about my kid & 25% about the team The athlete - 50% about my kid & 50% about the team (unless its the sport the parent desires, then refer to Premier/Select)
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Post by lcpsoccermom on Feb 12, 2011 8:50:50 GMT -6
Another example of "haves, haves not." Many years ago, a successful Louisiana boys' h/s team first day of tryouts was real simple. Coach would sit all the potential players in the stands and make three statements. 1)Who plays select? 2)Ok, select players over here. 3) If non of you remaining players have never played select, thanks for coming out. Cold, quick, and to the bone. Same thing may not happen exaxtly with the girls, but lasoccer prep is right. The objective is to win, and a team cannot be successful if it practices to the lowest skilled player. If anyone doubts this, check the roster of every h/s D1 state championship team over the last decade, easily 80-90% premier/former premier players, if not 100%, You are so right-Aliceshoe1. My son was on the 04-05 8th grade Jesuit team. 100% played select. I remember a parent complaining that his son played on a D1 team (one of the few in NO)and was not playing. But here in N. LA it is completely different. Only a few schools have the luxury of fielding teams with players who play year around, especially on the girls side. High school soccer should not be about development, but sometimes it has to be. That is the reality of high school soccer up here. And high school coaches don't often have the experience for that kind of coaching. It is such a difficult thing to meld a team made up of experienced select players, D1 players who think they know soccer, athletes who want the team experience and those who've never played. And then, you add the parents. What a difficult job!
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