knee slides and yellow cards

[futboldad]

At the EDW - Vandy game, a player ended his time on the field with a soft red after a knee slide following his score for EDW, putting EDW up by 2. Given the cross-diocese rivalry, he was a bit excited. Ok, I am trying to turn a new leaf at games. I am trying hard not to give the refs a hard time, trying to learn more about the laws (FIFA) and the rules (HS).

I am told that his card was for leaving the field, going into an out-of-bounds area on the sidelines, never reaching the EDW track that surrounds their field. I thought that it was not leaving the field, per se, that is a problem with such knee slides, but with delaying the game. Well, there was no way that he delayed the game (anymore than the keeper with 8+ second punts). He did not taunt the other team or the fans of the other team, as he did it in front of his schools student fan section. And taunting would have drawn a red, I believe.

Could it be that the rules are being interpreted as his actions being game delaying because the fields lines are clear boundaries, clear lines that can be crosses or not? That would make sense to me. As I mentioned, I want to know why I should not give the ref a hard time over such a call. Hey, I am really working at it--keeping my camera in my hand, I make it hard to open my mouth, but last night the rain made me put it away.

[happyjack]

The rules state leaving the field of play withoutthe referees permission is a cautionable offense. Some go by the letter and enforce it, others see it as a gray area and look at the situation before acting. I could also make the argument that it could be viewed as unsporting behavior if deemed excessive celebration, much like pulling your shirt over your face. Wasn't there and, contrary to belief, not a mind reader, just a couple o reasons that come to mind

[futboldad]

But players leave the field as much without the ref's permission when they try to save a ball from going out and over-run the touchline. This kid proabably did not go but about 4 feet beyond the touchline. Given how wet the field was, he would not have gone out at all had it been dry.

But, the call was what it was and did not end up altering the game, though it could have, since this guy was by far the fastest on the field.

[futboldad]

And where are my manners?

Thank you, happyjack.

[viewfromthepitch]

Jan 18, 2012 23:18:44 GMT -6 futboldad said:

But players leave the field as much without the ref's permission when they try to save a ball from going out and over-run the touchline. This kid proabably did not go but about 4 feet beyond the touchline. Given how wet the field was, he would not have gone out at all had it been dry.

But, the call was what it was and did not end up altering the game, though it could have, since this guy was by far the fastest on the field.

Leaving the field of play during the course of play, does not require the referees permission to enter or exit. The ball was in the goal, there was no reason to leave the field of play.

This year a rule was modified that bringing undue attention to ones self (any delayed, excessive or prolonged act by which a player attempts to focus attention upon himself and/OR prohibits a timely restart of the game) results in a caution, previously it was a soft red, meaning that the player was immediately disqualified and could take no further part, but the team did not play short. Now it is only a caution, however, if a second caution, then the player is disqualified.

I don't know what the caution was for, but trying to explain what the rules are. If you are on a caution, be on your best behavior. Don't do ANYTHING that could lead to a subsequent caution.

-VFTP

[futboldad]

Yes, the player was already in caution, for running into the keeper--he had tried to stop, but slid into keeper on the wet field.

While the knee slide did bring attention (he already had attention, having made the goal). The knee slide did not delay the game, as other players were all still moving about, getting in place.

So, if he had done his knee slide and not crossed the touchline, he would have not been carded?

[pop]

Sounds like just a little celebration. Not like the shoe shine I saw in Morgan City after a goal. The ref just stood and smiled while we waited for them to organize for the restart. Problem is consistency amongst refs and what one will tolerate. Some call it very tight while others let more go. I know either way may seem fair because it goes both ways, but a team that plays very disciplined or very loose has the advantage with the ref that calls it their way.

[dulac]

USSF Law
Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a cautionable offence in itself but it is essential that players return to the field of play as soon as possible.

[dulac]

USSF Law
"Leaving the field of play is allowed.... to avoid opponents blocking their way or to get to the ball still in play." (Per "Ask A Referee".)
For example, when players dribble the ball to the corner flag to prevent the opponent from getting to the ball, a player can step off the field to kick the ball from the corner. And, if the ball is rolling on the touch line and an opponent is on the field blocking access to the ball, a player may step over the touch line off the field to play the ball rolling on the touch line.

[Deleted]

This is yet another reason for the high school rules to conform to FIFA rules.

There's no consistency in the logic behind the modified hs rules. Some rules are harsh. Others far too lenient in when it comes to unsporting behavior and dangerous play.

[soccer2ref]

Yes, another reason NHFS should simply adopt FIFA rules and keep confusion to a minimum.

As far as this player being sent-off with a second caution, wasn't there. Doesn't sound bad but as stated by others, the player should learn that after his first yellow, he needs to tread a bit lighter. But understand, soccer is not a game that should strive to make a referee like a "ticket camera". I agree, rules need to be treated with common sense with some consistency. But realize that several rules for soccer if not all of them do require some judgement and interpretation by the referee. Since the rules allow this subjectivity, you will always have different spins by different referees. This may be seen as inconsistency between referees, but I'd argue that if every referee approached every game the same way you would cheapen the sport. Referees are like craftsmen - they may build you the same thing, but the details may be totally different.

Finally, maybe this will make you feel better. 2 years ago I sent off a player after he scored a tying goal with a second yellow for taking his shirt off, and whipping it around while running by both benches after the goal. He was the only player with an existing yellow card in the game, and he tied the game and got a soft red in the process. So your guy isn't the only one. In another game, a really talented forward scored a beautiful goal, then proceded to run into the goal, grab the ball, stuff it under his shirt like he was pregnant, and go running by the fans while rubbing it like a buda doll. He earned a yellow for delay, but I could have given another one to him and the send-off for the calling attention if I wanted to be a "ticket camera". Little celebrations are fine - Just don't overdo it unless you are sure what the referee will allow or have a yellow card to burn.

[futboldad]

I did not think the send off or either of the two yellows were questionable calls. I just wanted to know what the reason was.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with the ref's calls in the game. But I am trying to hold back my game time criticisms of refs by learning more about the rules. One problem is that there are certain differences between FIFA rules and HS rules that makes it hard for a fan to keep them straight. Before having a son play HS ball, I really did not know there there was a such thing as a soft red--something that makes little sense to me.

I know about taking balls from the opponent's net. After a club game last year when my son retrieved a ball from the goal after his score--to bring the ball to the center circle. He was redded I think.

On a rain-slickened field, in a high-emotion rivalry game, I am glad the ref was throwing cards around alot. My kid was the smallest one on the field.

[happyjack]

S2- if you would have given a caution for delay then a 2nd at the same time for calling attention, you would have been wrong. If multiethnic infringements occur at the same time, you punish the more severe. In this case, both result in caution, you can only caution once.

[soccer2ref]

Happy - not true! Players can earn 2 cautions for doing 2 different things at the same incident. 1) taking the ball and delaying the restart, and 2) parading around in front of the crowd calling significant attention to himself. The player cannot earn 2 send-offs (then you punish the more potent one). And yes, with fouls you punish the more severe. But if I really wanted to, I could have technically given him 2 yellows, 1 for each of his 2 separate misconducts.