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Post by ronaldmcdonaldinho on Mar 17, 2013 18:54:51 GMT -6
I'd like to throw out two questions:
1. Just what are the rules concerning fouling from behind? I mean, how many times does a player have to get kicked in the Achilles' tendon or square in the calf causing a deep muscle bruise, before something is called? My daughter was involved in a LCSL game over the weekend, U16, one of opposition caught came up behind [my daughter in possession of the ball] and either "thought" she was going to kick the ball but got all calf muscle on my daughter. IMO if you wind up to kick a ball that is in the possession of an opposing team member and miss and strike said player, that should be an automatic card. I personally think there was some malevolent intent given the history of the offending team, but even if not, are you telling me by U16 age, you don't have more body control than that? What the heck were you trying to kick?
2. Given #1 above, does anyone know of somebody who sells some type of 360 degree shin guard that would protect front AND back to protect one from overzealous defenders with all the grace of a bear on ice skates?
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Post by loJic on Mar 18, 2013 9:20:58 GMT -6
Moving to ref thread.
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Post by time2retire on Mar 18, 2013 15:05:22 GMT -6
Without video, it is extremely tough to precisely gauge what people describe on the internet with respect to fouls and such during a game. Nothing against you, but the way you describe it could be much different than the way it actually happened.
Let me describe a different situation. Attacker is winding up for a shot, defender is directly behind the attacker. Attacker swings right foot back, accidentally kicks the defender (who is simply there), and falls down. Should this be a foul?
Simply put, a tackle can be from behind and it wouldn't be misconduct. A tackle can also be from behind and be worthy of a send-off. The referee must judge the skill of the players, the atmosphere of the game, and what he can gain from cautioning or sending off the player who is tackling, among other factors. It is impossible to give a definite answer based on description alone...and I feel like I'm not helping you much with this...
I've never seen 360 degree shinguards. Patent some?
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Post by happyjack on Mar 19, 2013 18:50:18 GMT -6
I used to have a set of shin guards that did wrap around and provided Achilles protection, had 3 gel backs that added cushion. Never seen any that covered the calf. Don't recal the brand name.
Now, most likely the referee had no prior knowledge of bad blood between the teams. It is possible he played advantage in the scenario given, I've seen some nasty fouls that weren't called because of advantage. He also may have thought that it was a different type of contact than what you, as a parent, witnessed. Then again, maybe it was a foul and he didn't see it. All 3 are plausible explanations, ones that only that referee could answer.
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Post by pOkLE on Mar 20, 2013 9:00:18 GMT -6
just a logistics note--I could be wrong, but I don't think you can have shin guards that cover the calf. Shin guards by nature are made of sturdy, non-bendable material. The back of your calf and it's proposed shin guard would come in constant contact with back of your knee or lower hamstring, making movement very uncomfortable at the least and impossible (completely obstructed) at the worst.
So, I guess your left with some super slim gel cushion thingee that covers calf (like happyjack described for the achilles).
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Post by Patriot fan on Mar 20, 2013 9:32:44 GMT -6
In response to ronaldmcdonaldinho and other comments made - please do not question the description as outlined as to the infraction. My daughter plays on the same team as ronaldmcdonaldinho and this way over the line of physical play, which was instituted prior to the start of the game by the mid field ref. The teams were told " I am not going to call anything" edict and confirmed to me by my daughter and others.
The lack of fouls in this game only elevated the level of physical play by the opposing team until the second half when she finally took out a yellow card. The fouls described were from behind and were no way in the vicinity of the ball.
While the score was favorable to our team I am quite sure that other coaches have found her style of officiating quite lacking...
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Post by time2retire on Mar 20, 2013 14:04:19 GMT -6
Don't question the description?
If I were on the field making decisions you didn't have a clear view of, and my response was "don't question me", you'd want my rear end in a sling. I gave you plenty of reasons why descriptions of fouls (especially through rose-colored glasses) don't work in a forum setting without supporting video evidence. I'm sure you didn't have the same angle as the "mid field ref".
How can a "lack of fouls...elevate(d) the level of physical play...until...she finally took out a yellow card"? If there were a lack of fouls, I'd hate to see how you describe an ISLANO game.
Anxiously awaiting your wisdom on how the "Rules" went out the window for this game.
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Post by happyjack on Mar 20, 2013 20:28:00 GMT -6
In response to ronaldmcdonaldinho and other comments made - please do not question the description as outlined as to the infraction. My daughter plays on the same team as ronaldmcdonaldinho and this way over the line of physical play, which was instituted prior to the start of the game by the mid field ref. The teams were told " I am not going to call anything" edict and confirmed to me by my daughter and others. The lack of fouls in this game only elevated the level of physical play by the opposing team until the second half when she finally took out a yellow card. The fouls described were from behind and were no way in the vicinity of the ball. While the score was favorable to our team I am quite sure that other coaches have found her style of officiating quite lacking... I'd suggest if you have issues with the officiating you have the coach or manager contact the local assignor and discuss this in a calm and professional manner. I find it hard to believe an official would simply state "I'm not going to call anything" prior to a match. Of course, this is best addressed while the match is taking place if the assignor is available to watch. Otherwise, unless there is video proof, hard to come down on the official |
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Post by Patriot fan on Mar 21, 2013 15:25:18 GMT -6
To time2retire--another commentator taking issue with on site observers. When a player commits a wanton foul from behind then it needs to be called. My comment as to the " lack of fouls", I stand corrected as it should have read "lack of fouls called". While others may come on this forum to bloviate about how much they know this is a reporting of a referee that made that statement before the game and it doesn't mean a rats butt if you don't believe it, so unless you were there and know the parties involve then I would suggest you make a more constructive comment or move on..
To happy jack-- you are absolutely correct that there are channels for these kind of issues but the coach has too much respect for the game as well as class to move any further..
Players can and did receive injuries during this game with a lack of discipline and enforcement of the rules and that is the point of all this mumbo jumbo...
Good night Gracie..
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Post by cardsinhand on Mar 21, 2013 17:06:54 GMT -6
To happy jack-- you are absolutely correct that there are channels for these kind of issues but the coach has too much respect for the game as well as class to move any further.. Then your coach is doing a disservice to the game. I as, an assignor, would want to know if my referees were not following the "rules" and if they were a "mid field ref". Those are things that need to be corrected. Believe it or not, some of us listen to complaints from coaches as long as they are constructive and knowledgable. We can usually tell by listening to their comments and complaints if they are. I address issues all the time with the referees that work with me. I addressed issues with over a dozen of them Sunday at Red Stick. Alway trying to get them to improve. So if your coach isn't constructively complaining then he/she isn't helping. Or maybe they are just not on the same page as dad is. Btw, what is bloviate? It comes up as a misspelled word, but I couldn't interpret what it might mean. |
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Post by happyjack on Mar 21, 2013 17:48:17 GMT -6
blo·vi·ate [bloh-vee-eyt] Show IPA
verb (used without object), blo·vi·at·ed, blo·vi·at·ing.
to speak pompously.
Origin:
1850–55, Americanism; pseudo-Latin alteration of blow to boast; popularized by W. G. Harding
Apparently something only referees do...
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Mar 22, 2013 6:33:42 GMT -6
To happy jack-- you are absolutely correct that there are channels for these kind of issues but the coach has too much respect for the game as well as class to move any further.. Good night Gracie..Seriously, if your coach is not willing to offer constructive feedback, then you have no right to complain about officiating. If you are not part of the solution, you are just part of the problem. Go back to smoking your cigars George. |
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Post by cardsinhand on Mar 22, 2013 7:12:56 GMT -6
blo·vi·ate [bloh-vee-eyt] Show IPA verb (used without object), blo·vi·at·ed, blo·vi·at·ing. to speak pompously. Origin: 1850–55, Americanism; pseudo-Latin alteration of blow to boast; popularized by W. G. Harding Apparently something only referees do... Ohhh. Ok. Thanks. I could have presumed to know that but then I could have come across as looking foolish if I had been wrong. Btw Happy, working on feedback now. |
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Post by pOkLE on Mar 22, 2013 8:47:16 GMT -6
blo·vi·ate [bloh-vee-eyt] Show IPA verb (used without object), blo·vi·at·ed, blo·vi·at·ing. to speak pompously. Origin: 1850–55, Americanism; pseudo-Latin alteration of blow to boast; popularized by W. G. Harding Apparently something only referees do... Ohhh. Ok. Thanks. I could have presumed to know that but then I could have come across as looking foolish if I had been wrong. Btw Happy, working on feedback now. I will totally work this into my game-day vocabulary (though no plans to use it correctly). Top contenders: a) "Ref,  stop bloviating the game!" b) "If you don't start bloviating that whistle when my guys get bloviated from behind, I'm going to bloviate a gasket!" c) "Bloviate your eyes, ref!" |
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Post by cuttysark on Mar 28, 2013 10:47:30 GMT -6
I am the coach. The ref did state prior to game that she "lets the girls play and she doesn't call many fouls" I am familiar with the center and it's true. As a coach I don't mind letting the girls play as long as it is within the rules of play. 50/50 balls and shoulder to shoulder play is of course legal. This game started physical and proceeded to escalate. I did complain to center about the extension of arms and in defense of the center she did start to blow for fouls. But it was too late and one of our players took a hard knock to the back of her leg. The foul was late and from behind (no foul was called). Girls at this age are smart... if the refs let them get away with fouling it escalates. Legal physical play is a great part of this beautiful game. The ref needs to control the game. I don't coach my teams to play dirty. If one of my players is getting chippy I will sit her. I constantly coach and train my players to play the BALL. I think certain refs have a style of play that they will allow. Coaches players and fans learn within the first few minutes of a match what the ref will allow. The whistle blowing every minute kills the flow of a match and the opposite kills the beauty of this game. I have coached for 12 years and Louisiana has done a great job developing and educating refs. I would put our top refs against any other state. Keep up the good work!
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