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Post by swami on Feb 21, 2015 20:35:47 GMT -6
Don't understand your comment. If a foul prevented OGSO, red would be warranted. How is same foul a yellow? Foul happened 25-30 yards from goal and MHS players was NOT in an obvious goal scoring position. Where's the ambiguity. Straight forward yellow and MHS free kick. Right call in my opinion. Your trippin oranje. No ball and basically tackled mandys forward.
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Post by swami on Feb 21, 2015 20:39:15 GMT -6
Great effort by Mandeville tonight. Congrats to St Pauls on win. Cant wait to see them battle again next year!
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oranje
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Post by oranje on Feb 21, 2015 20:47:05 GMT -6
Foul happened 25-30 yards from goal and MHS players was NOT in an obvious goal scoring position. Where's the ambiguity. Straight forward yellow and MHS free kick. Right call in my opinion. Your trippin oranje. No ball and basically tackled mandys forward. You missed a great game then. Ball went out over sideline. Both players battling for the ball. Yellow card, case closed.
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Post by possessioniskey on Feb 21, 2015 21:01:40 GMT -6
Crowd was unreal.
SPS dominated possession. MHS has a talented team and will remain talented but SPS just on a completely different level
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oranje
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Post by oranje on Feb 21, 2015 21:30:41 GMT -6
Tremendous turnout. Encouraging to see this much support for soccer in LA. Interest keeps growing every year. Congrats to the mighty Skippers for a great season and run. A perenial contender. See everyone at the Championship game in Tad Gormley.
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Post by Soccer Guy 10 on Feb 21, 2015 22:15:16 GMT -6
Should have been red, no doubt about it Wolves center back played the ball and didn't prevent an obvious scoring opportunity from 30 yards out. Yellow was warranted. I believe the yellow was the correct call, but we've all seen a red given in that situation before. Obviously in a situation like that, some are going to say it was an OGSO, and others will argue it wasn't. I just personally didn't see enough to issue a red. In all, I think the refereeing crew had a good game. As far as the offside call, he was onside when the original ball was played but off when the defender last touched it; therefore, no offside and the correct no call was made (much like the video of the Portugal game showed). It was a great game to watch and a hell of a season from a very young Skippers squad. It will be interesting to see this matchup in the future when most of the MHS players are Seniors.
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pirlo
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Post by pirlo on Feb 21, 2015 22:22:52 GMT -6
Wolves center back played the ball and didn't prevent an obvious scoring opportunity from 30 yards out. Yellow was warranted. I believe the yellow was the correct call, but we've all seen a red given in that situation before. Obviously in a situation like that, some are going to say it was an OGSO, and others will argue it wasn't. I just personally didn't see enough to issue a red. In all, I think the refereeing crew had a good game. As far as the offside call, he was onside when the original ball was played but off when the defender last touched it; therefore, no offside and the correct no call was made (much like the video of the Portugal game showed). It was a great game to watch and a hell of a season from a very young Skippers squad. It will be interesting to see this matchup in the future when most of the MHS players are Seniors. I agree with your interpretation of the play. It should be noted that the majority of MHS starters (n=6) are sophomores. The future is bright for the skippers.
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Post by swami on Feb 21, 2015 22:54:00 GMT -6
Your trippin oranje. No ball and basically tackled mandys forward. You missed a great game then. Ball went out over sideline. Both players battling for the ball. Yellow card, case closed. Some others in the press box must have missed a great game as well. You assume bc ball went out it was a yellow card foul but not a red card foul? Not sure of that logic if its both players battling then it wouldn't even be a foul . I don't think the result of game changes but who knows. Then again, i have seen worse fouls not get red either. I think refs are just too scared to use it, even when warranted. I think some teams take advantage of this and when threatened or beaten but still outside the box, they are taught to make a hard challenge and / or foul immediately knowing a yellow is the worst thing that happens, especially at home. Wolves are a great team. Spacing, passing, patience, speed, balance. Looking to complete an undefeated run this year and one of best teams in the nation. Glad to know their coach and a number of their players. Proud of the Skippers on a great run themselves this year. Though they lose some talented seniors, they should continue to improve with a dedicated coach and some young players on the rise. 6 sophomores and a freshman played tonight, 5 started. Looking forward to them closing the gap on the wolves,
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sweepe
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Post by sweepe on Feb 21, 2015 23:09:48 GMT -6
You missed a great game then. Ball went out over sideline. Both players battling for the ball. Yellow card, case closed. Some others in the press box must have missed a great game as well. You assume bc ball went out it was a yellow card foul but not a red card foul? Not sure of that logic if its both players battling then it wouldn't even be a foul . I don't think the result of game changes but who knows. Then again, i have seen worse fouls not get red either. I think refs are just too scared to use it, even when warranted. I think some teams take advantage of this and when threatened or beaten but still outside the box, they are taught to make a hard challenge and / or foul immediately knowing a yellow is the worst thing that happens, especially at home. Wolves are a great team. Spacing, passing, patience, speed, balance. Looking to complete an undefeated run this year and one of best teams in the nation. Glad to know their coach and a number of their players. Proud of the Skippers on a great run themselves this year. Though they lose some talented seniors, they should continue to improve with a dedicated coach and some young players on the rise. 6 sophomores and a freshman played tonight, 5 started. Looking forward to them closing the gap on the wolves,
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Post by agsurfer on Feb 21, 2015 23:17:28 GMT -6
There were plenty of instances where we as spectators see things that the refs do not. We have a different vantage point and feel this gives us superior insight. Though this may actually be true on occasions, we are not on the field tasked with making the judgements. Thus, rehashing whether or not something was or was not a foul only takes away from the beauty of watching these fine young men play their hearts out. What I am sure of is that both teams played to win. Each team with a different tactic, but one they believed gave them the best chance to win. Congrats to both teams on making it this far. St. Paul's will need to bring their A game next weekend as Jesuit showed they have grit and heart. Mandeville should hold their heads high and use this season to help prepare for next year's soccer season.
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sweepe
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Post by sweepe on Feb 21, 2015 23:23:33 GMT -6
It was a yellow. Smart strategic foul by the defender and definitely not a goal scoring opportunity in the first half.
Normal distribution of calls good and bad in the game.
No offsides on the third goal just a bad defensive set by MHS on the free kick. Four man wall froze and was dead footed after ball deflected wide and then crossed back for the endgame goal.
Good game. SPS seems to tailor their team every year to the particular skills of the players. They kept fresh legs in the game. MHS tried to make something happen but it wasn't going to happen tonight for them.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 21, 2015 23:32:30 GMT -6
I think some teams take advantage of this and when threatened or beaten but still outside the box, they are taught to make a hard challenge and / or foul immediately knowing a yellow is the worst thing that happens, especially at home. Did you really just suggest that the game is called more favorably for the home teams?
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Post by swami on Feb 22, 2015 12:55:27 GMT -6
I think some teams take advantage of this and when threatened or beaten but still outside the box, they are taught to make a hard challenge and / or foul immediately knowing a yellow is the worst thing that happens, especially at home. Did you really just suggest that the game is called more favorably for the home teams? I am suggesting that a referee will be extra hesitant to show a red card during a semi-final game at the defending champs home stadium. Otherwise i think the crew did a fine job last night.
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Post by agsurfer on Feb 22, 2015 18:33:07 GMT -6
Did you really just suggest that the game is called more favorably for the home teams? I am suggesting that a referee will be extra hesitant to show a red card during a semi-final game at the defending champs home stadium. Otherwise i think the crew did a fine job last night. So, your answer to the question is yes. If you believe this, then what happened when the MHS right back pulled down the SPS left wing on the MHS byline inside the 18 box while the ball was still in play (second half). SPS player had kept his footing and was about to move further into the box alone as the defender began to fall trying to stop. He then grabbed the wing by his shorts/hips and threw his legs into the feet of SPS player and pulled him to the ground. This would have been a scoring opportunity, but nothing was called. Like I have said, we as fans see the game from a different vantage point and believe our view is correct. Many times players will give a different account after the game which contradicts our opinion.
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Post by swami on Feb 22, 2015 20:15:46 GMT -6
I am suggesting that a referee will be extra hesitant to show a red card during a semi-final game at the defending champs home stadium. Otherwise i think the crew did a fine job last night. So, your answer to the question is yes. If you believe this, then what happened when the MHS right back pulled down the SPS left wing on the MHS byline inside the 18 box while the ball was still in play (second half). SPS player had kept his footing and was about to move further into the box alone as the defender began to fall trying to stop. He then grabbed the wing by his shorts/hips and threw his legs into the feet of SPS player and pulled him to the ground. This would have been a scoring opportunity, but nothing was called. Like I have said, we as fans see the game from a different vantage point and believe our view is correct. Many times players will give a different account after the game which contradicts our opinion. I completely agree. I thought the 3rd goal was offsides (poor angle). After discussing with the Mandeville players they thought he was probably onside. On a different note, i do not recall a SPS player being tripped and pulled to the ground as you described, i have to watch the tape. You are the first person, ( player, fan or coach) who has mentioned it. I assume it was not as aggregious as you describe or at the very least a foul would have been called. Moreover, i don't think he was the last defender. However, lots of people (players, fans, coaches and officials) have opined about whether a red should have been shown to the last defender for SPS. I don't think you are comparing apples to apples. Again, i feel the ref did a pretty good job of controlling the game, and called an even game. Unfortunately, with such a low scoring sport as the beautiful game, one crucial call or lack thereof makes a huge difference. Maybe i am interpreting the last defender rule improperly but i don't think so. We disagree about the call but thats why this forum exists, at least for me. Fact remains, it will be a yellow card for time eternal so in that sense you win but that doesn't mean it was the right call. Good luck to your wolves next week.
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usfgk
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Post by usfgk on Feb 22, 2015 22:18:15 GMT -6
There is no last defender rule. It is denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity.
Denying an Obvious Goal-scoring Opportunity Criteria for deciding when to penalise for denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity: The direction of the play. The location of the foul. The proximity of the player to the ball. The probability of controlling the ball. The location and number of opponents. The opportunity for the attempt on goal.
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Post by swami on Feb 22, 2015 22:46:32 GMT -6
There is no last defender rule. It is denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity. Denying an Obvious Goal-scoring Opportunity Criteria for deciding when to penalise for denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity: The direction of the play. The location of the foul. The proximity of the player to the ball. The probability of controlling the ball. The location and number of opponents. The opportunity for the attempt on goal. Thanks! So considering those criteria, what was your take on the foul?
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usfgk
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Post by usfgk on Feb 22, 2015 23:05:39 GMT -6
Wasn't there to see it
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oranje
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Post by oranje on Feb 22, 2015 23:20:29 GMT -6
There is no last defender rule. It is denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity. Denying an Obvious Goal-scoring Opportunity Criteria for deciding when to penalise for denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity: The direction of the play. The location of the foul. The proximity of the player to the ball. The probability of controlling the ball. The location and number of opponents. The opportunity for the attempt on goal. Thanks! So considering those criteria, what was your take on the foul? I was ~40 yards from the play and per my observation; The direction of the play > ~5 yards outside left goal post The location of the foul > ~25yards from goal The proximity of the player to the ball > both players attempting to gain control of ball The probability of controlling the ball > 50/50 The location and number of opponents > within 15 yards The opportunity for the attempt on goal > from 25 yards out, ~45° angle, and no ball control yet - 0%
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Post by swami on Feb 24, 2015 13:22:28 GMT -6
Thanks! So considering those criteria, what was your take on the foul? I was ~40 yards from the play and per my observation; The direction of the play > ~5 yards outside left goal post The location of the foul > ~25yards from goal The proximity of the player to the ball > both players attempting to gain control of ball The probability of controlling the ball > 50/50 The location and number of opponents > within 15 yards The opportunity for the attempt on goal > from 25 yards out, ~45° angle, and no ball control yet - 0% I viewed it from the pressbox. I feel there is a last defender rule but it is only part of Law 12. In order for a player to be sent off for denying an "obvious goal-scoring opportunity," four elements must be present: Number of Defenders -- not more than one defender between the foul and the goal, not counting the defender who committed the foul . This element was satisfied. Distance to goal -- the closer the foul is to the goal, the more likely it is an obvious goal-scoring opportunity . This is the best argument for the yellow card but also reinforces what i said about being taught to foul hard when beaten outside the box, even if it means a card. To me, this element is abused. Distance to ball -- the attacker must have been close enough to the ball at the time of the foul to have continued playing the ball . This element was satisfied. Direction of play -- the attacker must have been moving toward the goal at the time the foul was committed. This element was satisfied. If any of these 4 elements are absent, no send off. The problem is there is a huge variation in shot distance. Obviously if the fouls is 40+ yards out, GSO not obvious. If inside the 6, GSO is obvious. Yet, I have seen plenty of goals scored from the 20 yard range.
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