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Reds
Nov 16, 2007 19:35:09 GMT -6
Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Nov 16, 2007 19:35:09 GMT -6
Can you sub for a soft red (double yellow)?
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Reds
Nov 16, 2007 21:42:26 GMT -6
Post by coachray40 on Nov 16, 2007 21:42:26 GMT -6
Yes---NFHA allows for a substitution on the second yellow.
Some tournaments do not allow the sub.
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Reds
Nov 17, 2007 3:55:18 GMT -6
Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Nov 17, 2007 3:55:18 GMT -6
awesome, so hard to keep up with all the different changes in the rule as you transfer from rec to premier to high school, and then to a different rec program where they use some of there own rules as well.
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Reds
Nov 17, 2007 7:18:54 GMT -6
Post by manudown on Nov 17, 2007 7:18:54 GMT -6
I really don't understand and like this rule at all. It defeats the whole purpose of having a red card given in the first place, which is to send a message that certain things aren't to be tolerated and to make your team play a man down. With this, you can get a red card without hurting your team too much, because someone else can come on.
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Reds
Nov 17, 2007 7:36:50 GMT -6
Post by stafalcon22 on Nov 17, 2007 7:36:50 GMT -6
but you are not really getting a red you are just getting two yellows for different fouls
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Reds
Nov 18, 2007 19:10:41 GMT -6
Post by happyjack on Nov 18, 2007 19:10:41 GMT -6
Big difference between a double yellow and a straight red. Straight reds are given for fouls that are excessive in force and likely to injure a player, as well as denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity, taunting, and foul/abusive/insulting language. You could get two yellows for simple things that aren't fouls, such as failing to be 10 yards away on a kick or the infamous "unsporting behavior." I don't think it is a bad thing in HS soccer to allow the replacement on the double yellow. Please remember that the HS game is meant to be an extension of the school day, and is viewed as a learning instrument for the players.
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Reds
Nov 18, 2007 21:50:36 GMT -6
Post by chelsea007 on Nov 18, 2007 21:50:36 GMT -6
I like the idea of a "soft red". I also don't think they should be reported to LHSAA. In my mind, it is the equivilant to a basketball player fouling out. I also wish it would be adopted by FIFA. Lets face it, how many times have we seen a match altered totally due to a second yellow. The refs have an incredibly difficult job to start with. To have them debating a yellow (and in my opinion, a good ref does just that with a second caution), only compounds things. I know some English fans that hate a ref having that much control. Look at it from a refs point, if it weren't so punitive, second yellows would probably occur more often cleaning up the game a bit without drasitically affecting the outcome. Just my thoughts.
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Reds
Nov 19, 2007 20:06:11 GMT -6
Post by xmopitchman on Nov 19, 2007 20:06:11 GMT -6
I've seen 2nd yellows given to players that were tired so they committed the foul just to get out of the game, knowing they could be subbed for. I'd like to see the 2nd Red is an ejection without the sub. Coach's would have to do a better job of managing their team. Good ref's don't debate a call, they just call it by the rules and record what happened.
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Reds
Nov 19, 2007 20:45:20 GMT -6
Post by happyjack on Nov 19, 2007 20:45:20 GMT -6
actually, that is what bad refs do. good refs do much more, including deciding when a good butt chewing will suffice instead of a caution. anyone can pull a card and show it, doing so wisely, and gaining something for it, is what you strive for. there are times when a ref is required to be deaf, dumb, and blind in a match - just hopefully not all at the same time.
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Reds
Nov 20, 2007 13:26:44 GMT -6
Post by truthhurts on Nov 20, 2007 13:26:44 GMT -6
actually, that is what bad refs do. good refs do much more, including deciding when a good butt chewing will suffice instead of a caution. anyone can pull a card and show it, doing so wisely, and gaining something for it, is what you strive for. there are times when a ref is required to be deaf, dumb, and blind in a match - just hopefully not all at the same time. Thats a good one happyjack.LOL
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Reds
Nov 20, 2007 20:12:20 GMT -6
Post by defendermom on Nov 20, 2007 20:12:20 GMT -6
Does the high school still get fined for a "soft red?"
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Reds
Nov 20, 2007 20:37:38 GMT -6
Post by coachray40 on Nov 20, 2007 20:37:38 GMT -6
Schools get fined on the second and third red, soft or otherwise. $100 for the second $200 for the third, and after the third red a player is banned from continuing to participate for the remainder of the season
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Reds
Nov 23, 2007 9:38:30 GMT -6
Post by xmopitchman on Nov 23, 2007 9:38:30 GMT -6
Happyjack, a ref that follows the rulebook is a bad ref? If the offending player is trying to get out of the game and you don't 2nd card him, the next foul will be more direct and painful. Do you then give another stern lecture so someone else gets hurt? When ref's start interpreting the "spirit of the game" it usually gets out of control quickly. The worst ref's I've known did way too much talking after the foul was committed. Should have controlled it with his mouth prior to the foul.
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Reds
Nov 24, 2007 10:15:41 GMT -6
Post by happyjack on Nov 24, 2007 10:15:41 GMT -6
While many pose the question here, I've yet to actually see a player "interntionally" commit a foul to recieve either a second yellow or a red to "get out of the match." Sorry guys, it just doesn't happen - and I've been involved in soccer for 35 years. I've never seen a coach "refuse" to sub a player who wants out, a coach would be downright moronic to leave a player in who doesn't want to play and is asking to come out.
xmopitchman - I'm not saying to disregard the laws of the game. but we both know Law 18 comes in to play when dealing with a player who is frustrated. There are ways to deal with it to prevent it from becoming a 2nd caution or send off offense...preventive refereeing is the term. A good ref will be proactive, a lesser experienced ref will only see the foul and react, and not see anything building up that could have been dealt with to avoid it.
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Reds
Nov 24, 2007 11:39:01 GMT -6
Post by xmopitchman on Nov 24, 2007 11:39:01 GMT -6
I've seen more than one player commit the intentional foul, knowing it would bring a 2nd yellow. I agree that preventive refereeing is the best, however, if the player then commits the offense, he should be given the 2nd yellow or whatever is the correct call for the protection of the other players. P.S. There may have been some games where I qualified for that "moronic" part.
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Reds
Nov 24, 2007 19:02:38 GMT -6
Post by chelsea007 on Nov 24, 2007 19:02:38 GMT -6
I have yet to coach a kid that purposefully got a second yellow. A straight red maybe, but not a second yellow. Most kids want to play and if they are going to something stupid, they usually don't care if it is in the best interest of the team. It is my experience that refs that are rule book cops are usually pretty bad. They analyze every little thing, book for dumb things but let others go (missing them while analyzing a play from earlier in the match), and generally lose control of the match. When they lose control, they resort to carding everything. Give me a ref with game sense and common sense any day. You can have the rule book attorneys.
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