Shootout issues with HS game

[packfan]

Here goes~
Never have seen this before so I am questioning if it is legit. During the Hammond-Slidell girls game yesterday, the game was tied after 2 Ot's.
Went to pks- first question- Slidell let all their players- not just 5 line up on the field as if they were going to kick.There were no behavior issues, but we just thought that the 5 chosen to kick only were allowed. Nothing said by center or AR's.
The above was secondary to what happened next. The Slidell boys team who had been warming up behind the Hammond goal- marched down the sidelines and stood in a line along where the AR usually runs. I thought they were going to watch the shootout. I didn't think they should be there but I had not seen it before. We went nuts when our first Hammond kicker went up to kick and they started literally heckling as if they were doing the "hey batta batter swing" as she went to kick.Wasn't that exact one but you know what I mean. Nothing said and our boys team saw what happened after that and did the same thing. I did not think this was allowed. You have no control over that kind of cheering in the stands but when there is an additional team lined up along the sidelines on the field standing between the mid field and the goal-I think there is an issue. Is it allowed on the field?
Always interesting... we won but these were new things we have never seen in club or high school. And our team has had tons of experience going to shootouts.....

[SWLASocFan]

It depends on the individual referee as to how many players are in the center cirlce. Personally, I always allow the first 10 kickers - that way if the score is still tied at the end of the first 5 kickers - things go quicker by already having the next 5 ready.

As far as the heckling. I wouldn't have allowed it...

[happyjack]

how do you stop fans from cheering or heckling? officials have no control over fans. if they weren't on the field, the officials did their job. Should they have told them to move? probably so, based on your description of where they were standing, at least back to the track. so they go to the track or the stand and still do the same thing, what has been solved? nothing. this is a fairly gray area. in high school rules, all pllyers on the roster are able to participate in kicks from the penalty mark in a tiebreak situation, so having the team in the center is not much of an issue

[El Gato]

As live said, individual referees handle things differently, but as far as players and substitutes are concerned, they should be kept to the center circle or the bench, especially since H.S. rules allow all of them to be candidates for a kick. Even the opposing goalie has to keep a certain distance (18 yd line and goal line) while his counterpart is taking on a kick from the mark. If those players are part of a JV game that might be scheduled after the Varsity match, they have no place that close to the field.
By the way, these kicks should be officially refered to as "kicks from the penalty mark" and not "penalty kicks" since no penalty has taken place. If during the match, then it is a "PK"

[packfan]

Ok- so just letting 10 kickers on the field speeds up the game. got that.We all wanted the game over with. Happy jack,the fans were the boys team lined up on the pitch where the AR runs.It was the girls game shootout. They were not in the stands. officially they were not on the "Actual playing field"-just the line that divides it.But they were not on the track. Have not seen it before-don't have a problem with the cheering-have a problem from where it was done since it was the girls game and it was the boys team that was lined up there. Have not seen it done before and probably won't again. Just wanted to know if there were rules. I will refer to the shootout kicks -not PKs. I stand corrected!
And if I thought the officicals could do something about the students in the stands that were cursing at our team, the refs and their own players as well as shouting for the players to punch our girls in the face I would have asked about that. There is no control over those students in the stands other than parents or administrators telling them something.

[tonygalinto]

happyjack said:

how do you stop fans from cheering or heckling? officials have no control over fans. if they weren't on the field, the officials did their job. Should they have told them to move? probably so, based on your description of where they were standing, at least back to the track. so they go to the track or the stand and still do the same thing, what has been solved? nothing. this is a fairly gray area. in high school rules, all pllyers on the roster are able to participate in kicks from the penalty mark in a tiebreak situation, so having the team in the center is not much of an issue

I disagree with your statement that "officials have no control over fans" at HS games. I once spoke to Mr. Guzzardo concerning a referee/spectator in the stands creating problems. He stated "You deal with him just like any other spectator causing problems, you have him removed from the stadium". In the NFHS rulebook it states, "The center referee shall have the authority to suspend play or terminate the game whenever the elements, spectators or other causes require".

The referee could have said we are suspending play until the spectators get into the stands. I'm willing to bet that the boys fully expected to be told to move back onto the track and if they wanted to holler to get into the stands. Doing nothing in my opinion just wasn't acceptable.


I'm curious, was this one of your referees working the game?

[SWLASocFan]

tonygalinto said:

happyjack said:

how do you stop fans from cheering or heckling? officials have no control over fans. if they weren't on the field, the officials did their job. Should they have told them to move? probably so, based on your description of where they were standing, at least back to the track. so they go to the track or the stand and still do the same thing, what has been solved? nothing. this is a fairly gray area. in high school rules, all pllyers on the roster are able to participate in kicks from the penalty mark in a tiebreak situation, so having the team in the center is not much of an issue

I disagree with your statement that "officials have no control over fans" at HS games. I once spoke to Mr. Guzzardo concerning a referee/spectator in the stands creating problems. He stated "You deal with him just like any other spectator causing problems, you have him removed from the stadium". In the NFHS rulebook it states, "The center referee shall have the authority to suspend play or terminate the game whenever the elements, spectators or other causes require".

The referee could have said we are suspending play until the spectators get into the stands. I'm willing to bet that the boys fully expected to be told to move back onto the track and if they wanted to holler to get into the stands. Doing nothing in my opinion just wasn't acceptable.


I'm curious, was this one of your referees working the game?

I agree - if there are fans or spectators being unrulley, I can deal with them. In a HS match, if they are in the stands (which normally have a track between the field and the stands) then I am not going to worry about them. They are far enough away that (normally) the problems aren't severe enough to really impact the game. Now, if the spectators are in lawn chairs at the touchline - that's a different story! I deal with them the same as any other game.

I have seen specators escorted from a stadium before

[thegator]

stxsocref said:

tonygalinto said:

I disagree with your statement that "officials have no control over fans" at HS games. I once spoke to Mr. Guzzardo concerning a referee/spectator in the stands creating problems. He stated "You deal with him just like any other spectator causing problems, you have him removed from the stadium". In the NFHS rulebook it states, "The center referee shall have the authority to suspend play or terminate the game whenever the elements, spectators or other causes require".

The referee could have said we are suspending play until the spectators get into the stands. I'm willing to bet that the boys fully expected to be told to move back onto the track and if they wanted to holler to get into the stands. Doing nothing in my opinion just wasn't acceptable.


I'm curious, was this one of your referees working the game?

I agree - if there are fans or spectators being unruly, I can deal with them. In a HS match, if they are in the stands (which normally have a track between the field and the stands) then I am not going to worry about them. They are far enough away that (normally) the problems aren't severe enough to really impact the game. Now, if the spectators are in lawn chairs at the touchline - that's a different story! I deal with them the same as any other game.

I have seen spectators escorted from a stadium before

I agree... when the fans interfere with the players (our ultimate goal is fair play) then it is the DUTY of the center to control that. I have asked that fans leave, when it 1. in-dangers players or 2 internees with fair play. Which includes ANY non-roster persons be IN THE STANDS. Any player in "the next match" is a non roster player.

[happyjack]

was this one of your referees working the game?

i don't have any referees

[tonygalinto]

happyjack said:

was this one of your referees working the game?

i don't have any referees

I was thinking you were a referee assignor in that area of the state, that was the reason for the question. Guess it's not that important. Either way, I would hope in the future the referee would handle the same situation differently.

[packfan]

The game occured at Slidell High Jan 18th. Do not know who was running the center. Heard it was a "ref" in training but do not know how credible that info was. Just have never seen it before in club or high school. The center allowed it and it did not help either team-never seen so many players on either team miss their kick.

[dulac]

Not to be picky but just to point out, if the boys were literally on the touch line, then they are on the field. Then ref absolutely has authority to get them off. However, even if they weren't ON the line, I'd still have asked them to leave the area.

[happyjack]

tonygalinto said:

happyjack said:

was this one of your referees working the game?

i don't have any referees

I was thinking you were a referee assignor in that area of the state, that was the reason for the question. Guess it's not that important. Either way, I would hope in the future the referee would handle the same situation differently.

well, we only have a fans version of what happened, but as usual, you are quick to jump on the officials and point out all that went wrong. I suggest you go reread the ethics statement for officials

[tonygalinto]

happyjack said:

tonygalinto said:

I was thinking you were a referee assignor in that area of the state, that was the reason for the question. Guess it's not that important. Either way, I would hope in the future the referee would handle the same situation differently.

well, we only have a fans version of what happened, but as usual, you are quick to jump on the officials and point out all that went wrong. I suggest you go reread the ethics statement for officials

You are entitled to your opinions but would like for you to answer one question.


If you had the opportunity to speak to the officials would you advise them in future games to handle the same situation differently?

[happyjack]

I spoke to 2 of them last night, their version is significantly different than what has been posted here, relative to where the players were standing.

[packfan]

The Slidell boys were standing where I said they were standing. They were not on the track, they were on what we consider the field. The Slidell boys team was standing on the side of the field by the fans. Did not see any ref's walk over there to check where they were standing either.
Curious about where these ref's reported the team standing. I would love to see the ref's allowing this at another game.

[acmilan]

hahaha your crazy man!!
we were standing on the track no where near the field cause our coach would not even allow us to get close to the field!
if anything the hammond boys across the field were closer to the field then we were.
dont know waht ur talkin about man

[acmilan]

and also i know your right about some of the students that were there were being pretty rude saying some uncalled for things but they were later removed from the stadium. And as for both boys teams yelling, all we were yelling was, "OHHHHHHHHHH" just like if u were at a football game or anything else.

[packfan]

The team was not on the track they were on the field. I'll remember to bring a camera next time. We also had a high school ref with us that night that was not ref'ing that saw it.
There was a great bunch of cheering students in the stands during the boys game from Slidell. Not so during the girls. And if you read my post- no problem with the cheering but a problem from where it was done- on the green stuff that is mowed- not the track.Right where the AR runs. And I have double checked with alot of people just to make sure and we all saw the same thing.
And yeah, our boys went to cheer right after the first kick when they saw what was going on. I disagreed with that too.

[acmilan]

im on the team and i happen to know that our coach would not let us get close to the track, he actually made us move back.