Fighting on the field

[loJic]

So this was brought up on another messageboard about fights in high school and what the penalties should be. This was in MS but what is the punishment in LA?

Thoughts?

www.wlbt.com/global/category.asp?c=151146&clipId=&topVideoCatNo=15133&topVideoCatNoB=139455&topVideoCatNoC=139679&topVideoCatNoD=139779&topVideoCatNoE=145314&clipId=4526661&topVideoCatNo=15133&autoStart=true

[loJic]

Sorry, didn't realize I had this posted in the other forum.

[shazaam]

link doesnt work

[chspc2]

As was said earlier, the link doesn't work.....wondering if it was about the boys championship in MS?
As far as LA goes, the LHSAA won't do anything about a fight. They will fine the school after a certain number of red cards and suspend the player also.......but as far as punishment for the player, it is up to the school. The LHSAA won't do anything.....there are no rules governing the punishing a player involved in a fight so their hands are tied.
We were involved in a game (playoff game) where one of our players was viciously attacked by another player so much so that player was not able to play the next playoff game . Video of the incident was shown to the LHSAA and nothing can be done by the LHSAA.
The season is over for the team and player involved so you cannot punish them for soccer, what do you do?
We are still waiting for to hear what the school will do if anything, but the LHSAA won't do a thing regarding the incident!

[dulac]

Criminal charges can be filed.

[loJic]

new link


So, other then criminal charges being filed. Shouldn't the LHSAA demand some sort of disciplinarian action be taken by the school?

[pop]

it was removed from youtube

[dulac]

Feb 14, 2010 23:43:17 GMT -6 loJic said:

new link


So, other then criminal charges being filed. Shouldn't the LHSAA demand some sort of disciplinarian action be taken by the school?

One would think LHSAA would do something. But...it's LHSAA.

[Can i kick it?]

Is this the video? www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80912611/

[time2retire]

Any red cards issued for this incident would be labeled Violent Conduct (VC). Any VC red card should immediately raise a flag for review, and I thought the LHSAA had a policy of convening hearings for VC. Guess I was wrong?

I issued three red cards for VC in LHSAA last year. Two were from a fight in a girls game with punches thrown. One player sat out her next game. The other simply sat out for the first half of her next game. The third, I am unsure of.

The assignor had to have known that this game with Clinton (Arrows) could have gotten ugly, fast, and it did. Their choice of referees was a smart one. The center gets there relatively quickly. The video does not show the AR2 (near sideline) jotting information, but clearly shows the AR2 discussing this information with the referee once the situation settles down a bit. The AR1 runs in from nearly 70-80 yards to form a triangle of control. If both teams are on the same side, and no 4th official present, I would have preferred the AR1 stay on his touchline to control the benches. If a 4th is present, his action is textbook.

I think the crew did a spectacular job controlling this melee, but I think the teammates did an equally great job of separating the combatants and not escalating it to an 11v11 brawl.

My thoughts on sanctions? 28 blue and 9 black, 1 game for red card (VC) plus 3 games administrative disqualification for 4 games each. The third red card toward the end, I believe was issued for AL.

[loJic]

So the school should dictate the proper punishment?

I'm just wondering what the punishment is towards a school for not disciplining these situations correctly.

Shouldn't the LHSAA have a standard probation policy for schools that do not comply with a reasonable disciplinary action?

[furriner]

I don't know about getting everything right. #28 purple just goes bat doodoo on #9 black. There is no way that should take 5 minutes to get across. It does not look like #9 has a chance to hit back. If the crew did their job right, #28 would just have been red carded. That way, #9 black would not have had a chance to say something that the ref did not like and get a straight red. Remember: a black kid had just been beaten up in MS, and the four white "officers of justice" are standing around in a circle saying, "I dunno, all those white guys look the same to me, maybe the black guy was asking for it". Really, is there any excuse for it taking over 5 minutes (the tape is obviously cut) to figure out which white guy with a beard with bright orange sleeves wearing #28 assaulted #9?

time2retire also points out the team mates that get involved are acting as peacemakers: I did not see anything there to merit another 4 yellow cards.

[happyjack]

I agree, I didn't see 9 black swing at all, not sure why he was sent. It did take over 5 minutes to send 28 blue, he should have been sent immediately, no need to discuss. I wonder who was watching the benches to send off the players who entered the field of play...doesn't look like anyone was. I'll assume that the players cautioned was for verbal dissent directed at teh officials. Although it was not intelligent to huddle up and look at one another and not pay attention to the high school players who were certainly keyed up at that point.

[cardsinhand]

Hey Happy,

I wonder if that police officer on the field was screaming "I'll taser your f---ing a$$!" You know how that's soooo helpful in managing a game.

[furriner]

happy memories....... I had almost forgotten about that incident in Lafayette.

I was actually surprised he did not draw his taser. I probably would have.

[time2retire]

After looking and rewinding and looking at this video for the better part of an hour (and fortunate to have the luxury of doing so instead of having one shot in real time on the field), these are the Cliffs notes I gathered:

(0:14) 28 Blue swings at 9 Black
(0:14) 9 Black may have swung back. His body and torso twists. Poor angle.
(0:15) Several teammates from both teams enter the melee
(0:44) AR1 enters melee. Black coach appears in melee but seems very calm.
(1:00) AR2 enters after situation has leveled and teams have control of their players
(1:11) AR2 indicates to R to disqualify players
(1:16) R disqualifies Black 23, perhaps on AR2 advice. R goes straight to back pocket before he goes off screen then back pocket to return when he returns on screen.
(1:57) R disqualifies Black 9
Discussion ensues
(3:43) Blue 4, Black 99 and Black 17 are summoned to a neutral area with R. No cards issued, these players disperse. I can only assume that these are captains of the teams and the R was relaying pertinent information.
(4:02) Blue 28 is summoned to the area by AR1
(4:27) Blue 28 is disqualified
(4:32) Blue 11 is cautioned
(4:49) Black 21 is cautioned then disqualified (straight red). This is either a misapplication of display of the soft red or Black 21 was noted by AR2 for something more serious.
(4:53) Black 11 is cautioned for DT. He doesn't appear to be summoned to the area but throws his two cents in.
(5:25) The R restarts with the original infraction - Blue 28 striking Black 9.
(5:52) The replay shows Black 11 in a physical shirt tugging match with Blue 11 on the right hand side of the main event. The AR2 could have easily caught and recorded this information, and this may be the reason why he is cautioned at 4:53.

No 4th official seems to be present, both in uniform or in warm-up gear.

furriner, reflecting on your race comment - perhaps the crew relayed to him that Blue 28 would be disqualified, but completely agree on allowing far too excessive time to send him away. The obvious ones should have been displayed as soon as the crew sensed they were back in control. Fortunately a second eruption didn't come due to the long delay.

It is easy for me to sit here, review a clip for an hour and play Wednesday night referee. Quite frankly I'm not so sure if I would have been as calm in the heat of the moment - I haven't had much practice lately with games getting to that point. However, thanks for bringing this video to my attention. This may help me better control a situation in a future game.

furriner, happyjack - excellent points that I will take into consideration next time.

[ref05]

Unfortunately, I cannot get "descent" video look, but from still frames, it appears that #9 got his elbow up to the back of the head of #28 during the initial foul, which probably POed #28 and the fight ensued. Obviously, both #9 and #28 start to fight, with #28 putting #9 in a headlock. From the video angle most of what you see is obviously #28; however, I can see at the onset is some shoulder movement on the far side by #9 - which may have been a punch to the back of 28 or some natural movements - however the CR would have had a clear view of what it was. In any case, it is an easy decision to concurrently send both players off for VC, with the ensuing "conference" to make sure they got everything right.

Having been in a situation or two like this, the full crew involvement is vital. The CR can't loose his/her head (which is easier said than done). As strange as this may sound, one reason the CR may have taken 5 minutes to send off #28, is that from his angle, he is looking through a bunch of bodies & wants to make sure he has the correct player on blue (sorry to say, that #9 is much more easily identifyable because of his race). Of course while this mulls through his mind, he is busy trying to control the scrum surrounding him. Also, I don't see the nearside AR getting into the picture a bit sooner - it is the far side AR should be moving up to take notes as the 4th controls the bench.

In any case, you can armchair this whole thing to death, and I'm sure the CR will see that the primary culprits need to be out of the way sooner and concurently next time, with the third man in and other issues after the "conference" later. When it is all said and done, the crew did an acceptable job, but it always could have been better. They earned their money that game....

As far as criminal charges, well these are high school boys playing in a 1-0 playoff game. I do think that the red cards should carry weight and the schools take some action and cover any medical expenses, but a criminal record for this is not deserved...and yes I have a son and if he was either player, I'd be steamed but feel the same way.