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Post by copakid14 on Mar 8, 2010 8:21:25 GMT -6
One thing I've learned as a coach from N La is that you need to be careful about who you nominate. Since the other coaches from the rest of the state don't see our teams as much, they are not as familiar with our players. (not their fault) So even if they feel that West Monroe has a deserving player, they aren't sure which one of the four that would be. It is possible that every coach that voted picked one of those four but because they were split not one of them ended up with enough votes. You have a much better chance if you nominate one player, sell them to the coaches, and consolidate the votes.
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Post by sokerfan on Mar 8, 2010 8:36:18 GMT -6
crackball, I do not want you to name names. I have seen all the players listed except for the Mandeville and Byrd players. And to be honest with you when I started listing names of the players that Lafayette played that I thought could make the list, I had 11 and that did not include defenders or West Monroe or Byrd because I hadn't seen them play. The point I am trying to get across is that someone has to be left off.
I know that the FHS, SSA, MHS teams ALWAYS have the most players on the lists, but they are usually the teams making it long into the playoffs, so they must have talent. I believe they have the most representation as far as coaches that vote from their district. The coaches from their district would be more likely to vote for teams from their own district because the don't play the other top 10 teams from around the state. Maybe FHS, SSA and Mandy do, but the other 4 most likely don't, so they vote what they know.
If we were to take the best player (1) from the top 10 teams and seed them, then the next best player from these teams and fit them in the mix. Then the best players from non top 10 teams and fit them in the mix, what would we come up with? I think the list of nominated players would more or less be the same and I am not sure the list would be much different. The only thing that would allow others to be on the list is if they would limit it to the number of forwards, midfielders and defenders in each position. They currently have it as the top 13 players. Would we limit it to 3 forwards because most teams play 4-4-2 lineup? What if that 4th forward is a better player than the best Midfielder in the state, should she be left off? They try to vote on the best players regardless of the position they play. If they were to vote according to position we would have 30 on 1st team and 30 on 2nd team because everyone would want to go 10 deep per position.
I feel your pain and I am sure they are good players, so Congratulations on being nominated. For the Senior, good luck in whatever you decide to do after high school soccer. To the 3 soph. players, bring it next year and make people take notice. I am already looking forward to the game between Lafayette and W. Monroe next year because I want to see these players play. Both coaches are working on getting a game somewhere, should be fun.
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Post by sokerfan on Mar 8, 2010 8:39:13 GMT -6
copakid14, you are so right, but who do you nominate? This years class is forward strong. Next year might be defense strong. And poor keepers, there is only 1 spot. Not easy any way you look at it.
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Post by 2cents on Mar 8, 2010 9:33:40 GMT -6
Okay, I'll mention the elephant in the room. How does a freshman make 1st team All-State? And from the same team as Coach of the Year... I'm probably wrong, but is this the first freshman to make 1st team All-State?
No, I have not seen this player play. No, I am not advocating adding or deleting anyone from the team. No, I am not trying to bash anyone. I can only hope that this player is the next coming of Mia Hamm to beat out the multitude of sophomores, juniors and seniors around the state who were nominated and not chosen for the team. I just wish I would have known about this player during the season! I definitely would have made a point to see this player play the "beautiful game".
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Post by crackball on Mar 8, 2010 9:40:12 GMT -6
Well, I am about to do something I never do....this will be my last post to this thread. If you knew me personally, you would know this is rare because I love to have the last word...lol! It is obvious that none of our opinions are going to change on this issue and can't change the end result and that is fine with me. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I was just stating my frustrations that West Monroe had no representation....I know everyone keeps posting that these coaches don't know these girls, but as I mentioned before I think you are all wrong....The coaches follow this board and talk to many of you who obviously have the inside track to many of these teams, even if they don't get a chance to see them play....and if they don't, then they should make it a priority to find out about them so that the end result is a fair representation when it comes time to vote and not just pick "Suzy-Q" because she is on their team. copakid, I understand you feel it isn't the coaches fault because they don't see them play, but it is and should be their "job" to find out about these players, so it is their fault. And last but not least, sokerfan, no they are not "good players", they ARE and SHOULD be All State Players!
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yert
All-District
Posts: 225
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Post by yert on Mar 8, 2010 12:11:56 GMT -6
Since I'm the coach at West Monroe, guess I should to post some of my thoughts on the All-State team and selection process.
First off, just look at where the majority of the All-State team comes from district/area wise. Here's the breakdown...
Dist. 1 2 players, Dist. 2 1 player -- That's your North/Central La Districts (9 schools, 3 All-State selections)
Dist. 3 3 players Dist. 4 2 players --- Lafayette area (8 schools, 5 All-State selections)
Dist. 5 3 players Dist. 6 2 players --- Baton Rouge area (13 schools, 5 All-State selections)
Dist. 7 9 players (biggest district, has 2X as many schools that most districts), Dist 8 0 players, Dist 9 0 player, Dist. 10 5 players ---New Orleans area, 24 schools 14 All State players
**The reason I make this point is because the majority of the voting power is in one place, not saying it’s intentional done but it's obvious that one area can pretty much control who makes and who doesn't just based off pure location. Coaches are more likely to vote for their area players before others because that's the one’s they see play the most and honestly there’s nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.
Next thing, you can’t use the excuse “Go play down south” WM attended tournaments in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Out of all the teams represented on the All-State team WM either played them or at least played at a tournament with them, with the exception of 2. So there were opportunities for coaches to see these girls play. And if they took advantage of those chances and diddn’t feel the girls deserved a selection then I have no problem with that, but if they just over looked the opportunity what else can I do as a coach to get my players seen by other coaches outside my area?
Another issue that really bothers me is the deal with knowing girls from club ball. This All-State team should be selected from how players played during the High School season, IT’S NOT A CLUB ALL-STATE TEAM! Club reputation should not be used when determining the players you vote for when selecting the LHSSCA all-state team. Perfect example, is the girl from Natch. Central. Don’t get me wrong she is one of the better players in the state and deserves to be an all-state selection, but if look at the schedule Natch. Central played where would coaches have seen her play this season? Where would the votes come?? CLUB!
A comment was made that a coach should attend the annual meeting to talk up his/her players in order to try to gain votes. Ballots were due on Wednesday, meeting was held on Saturday so the team should have already been in place and any discussion about players at the meeting couldn’t change the results. From what I understand the All-State Team is just announced at the annual meeting.
And for the record: I am a member of the LHSSCA and did turn in a ballot.
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Post by soccerprofessor on Mar 8, 2010 12:14:31 GMT -6
Crackball, I am going to test your word on "last word". I saw your team play three times this year and you have a fine team filled with athletic and aggressive players. You are rightfully proud of the team. That said, WM is not in a tough District and when WM picks fights down South, WM loses. Certainly, five All-State players on a single team would change that result. So, when those results change, then you have an argument.
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Post by NutMeg on Mar 8, 2010 12:20:40 GMT -6
crackball and wave I have to ask, who should be removed then? It was suppose to be the TOP 13 and there is 16 chosen on first team, so there must have been some ties. I don't have the list of every coach that votes but we all know there are many that DON'T vote. Ask your coach if they are voting members and if they aren't ask him/her, WHY NOT? We need to all make a push to get ALL coaches signed up. The Dominican Coach is a voting member.
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Post by NutMeg on Mar 8, 2010 12:21:58 GMT -6
Christina Kiefer of Dominican should have made one of the teams She was nominated
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yert
All-District
Posts: 225
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Post by yert on Mar 8, 2010 12:56:47 GMT -6
Let us not focus on the club player from NC. It is not her fault she is a known quantity due to her exposure in club ball. I am willing to bet WM would love to have her on their team, but the fact of the matter, soccer at the next level (premier), for whatever reason, is NOT played in Monroe. Coaches who participate in premier ball know the kids, regardless of gender or age. It is what it is. Not trying to take a shot at the player from Natch. Central. Like I said she deserves the award. But.. you prove my point. She was selected to the team based of her Club connections not based off what she did in High School Soccer. After all it is the Louisiana High School Soccer Coaches Association All-State team and if it wasn't for club there is no way this player would have been seen.
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yert
All-District
Posts: 225
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Post by yert on Mar 8, 2010 13:19:52 GMT -6
Crackball, I am going to test your word on "last word". That said, WM is not in a tough District and when WM picks fights down South, WM loses. Certainly, five All-State players on a single team would change that result. So, when those results change, then you have an argument. So by that logic you only deserve an all-state selection if you are able to beat one of the "big teams" down south? Thought this was an individual award to recognize top players in the state?!? But if that's the case then who did St. Joe, Natch. Central, Baton Rouge and Acadiana beat this year in order to get players selected. Beating south La teams has NOTHING to with it, try again.
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Post by greenfury05 on Mar 8, 2010 13:27:45 GMT -6
yert, I will agee with you that this is HS. However, this is about the BEST players in the state. Yancy is one, DESPITE who she plays for or how far they got in the playoffs! PLEASE correct me if I am wrong. Way too much attention is paid to POST season success and the team these players are on. The awards she has won in All District should merit attention alone. It is an individual award, and the MVP from your district went to her! So if Yancy is clearly the Overall MVP from your district, does is matter that she plays Club ball?
In my opinion, she is exactly the kind of player that has been overlooked.
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yert
All-District
Posts: 225
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Post by yert on Mar 8, 2010 13:50:15 GMT -6
greenfury05, Yancy is more than deserving of being selected to the All-State team. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Yes, she was the overall MVP of our district and should have been. But it was also stated in another post that since our district is so WEAK and we diddn't beat South La teams it hurts our kids. So there's no reason for me to believe that her being the Overall MVP of our weak district got her selected to the team. You are correct this is exactly the type of player that gets overlooked and I believe that if it wasn't for club then she would have been overlooked again.
So, my whole point is that if it wasn't for club no matter what she accomplished in High School she would have been overlooked again since the only Div I schools that got to see her play were in our district.
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Post by greenfury05 on Mar 8, 2010 14:04:03 GMT -6
Understood. I have also had my frustrations with the All State process. Most of us have an idea of how it worked when we went to school, and this is not like that at all.
The only thing I can say is it is difficult to really get to the true All State players. Much involves a coach who is willing to participate, District base support, and a good season all around. It is impossible for all HS coach's to see all the teams, etc.
There are problems with in the system, but participation is paramount. I try to keep in mind that it is an individual award only. Not a team. I have many ideas that I think would eliminate some of the issues, but there will always be some.
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Post by soccerprofessor on Mar 8, 2010 14:15:49 GMT -6
Crackball, I am going to test your word on "last word". That said, WM is not in a tough District and when WM picks fights down South, WM loses. Beating south La teams has NOTHING to with it, try again. You are kidding right? How else can your players be judged other than by the competition that they go up against? If you are going to argue that the teams that bettered you do not have better players, then it is not I that needs to try again. The fact is that to the victors belong the spoils. The players on the winning teams should be well represented in All-State. That honor rightfully belongs to those teams. Of course, the best of the rest will be in South LA because that is the population base and the largest pool of players. I have to agree to greenfury, who cares how the best player is ID'ed. Your argument really only holds water if she only played Club ball and got All-State High School Honors. It is good to be proud of your players. The naming of the All-State team is not a slight to your players but an honor for the players named. I have a hard time reconciling the idea that you can honor those players and at the same time undermine the selection process. I see the honorees as a symbol for all our girls and symbol of all our girls.
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Post by Professor Marvel on Mar 8, 2010 16:53:08 GMT -6
It's amazing how one says you have to beat the best teams DOWN SOUTH and the other side says you have to play club ball down south if you really want to get noticed. How silly. I guess some of you are hoping you'll offer up enough excuses that something will stick. Keep trying - you're almost there! Yancy is most definitely deserving of the all-state honor. But, as Yert points out, she got noticed because she plays club ball for the Rage. Is that fair? Well, sure. As long as you can admit an all-stater can exist on a team that didn't come south and play with the big dogs. But then it's possible an all-stater can exist on a team that did come south but didn't whup all the big dogs (but also didn't turn tail and run!) It's a confusing argument, I admit. But - I'm just taking the various "reasons" given above and trying them out. I suspect, and I'm sure someone can confirm, the freshman that made 1st team plays club ball for somebody who happens to vote on the all-state list. Now, don't get your undies in a wad. She may well be the next Mia Hamm, but one season on a team that, ahem, didn't make it to the finals, probably wasn't enough to make such an impression. That, too, had to come from club ball. So, when does this get to be a little less equitable to those who don't play club ball, particularly with a team from down south? While many of the girls in N. Louisiana don't play premier, that doesn't mean they aren't capable. And many do participate in ODP and some even pick up with clubs from down south, as well as "play up" with their D1 (Daddy ball?) team at premier tournaments. And for crackball: if your daughter is getting an opportunity to even think about playing college soccer, well then, that is quite an honor! And one that, possibly, even some of the all-staters may not get - who knows? So, congrats to your daughter and her team on a fine season Also, congrats to the Byrd players that made all-state! And to Yancy, an apology for using you as an example to make a point. Very aggressive, talented player. All the best to you in college!
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Post by Professor Marvel on Mar 8, 2010 18:35:41 GMT -6
Please understand - I don't have an axe to grind here. I certainly don't want to take away from the young ladies who made all-state. It's unfortunate that, in order to make a point with some folks, the players end up getting thrown under the bus. That's not my intent and I hope the posters to whom most of my comments were directed "get it". I know well that the players have no say in all of this and hope that they enjoy all the glory that comes with the honor of making All-State. If the process is unbiased, those players from up north will eventually make their mark
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Post by footaction on Mar 8, 2010 22:11:07 GMT -6
Professor Marvel, that may be the wisest post today!! You have "enCOURAGED" crackball to be happy with her daughter's accomplishments! You have told "soccerprofessor", he doesn't have a "HEART". And -last but not least- you have told "aliceshoe1" , he doesn't have a "BRAIN". Hear-hear!!
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Post by proudmom on Mar 8, 2010 22:22:30 GMT -6
Well stated, Professor Marvel!! I, too, have to wonder how a freshman made the first team all-district after only one season playing high school soccer. It's certainly not to say that's she's not a talented player, but there's other players out there who have played their heart out year after year and are totally overlooked. The fact that the freshman's coach is on the voting committee (or whatever the official term is) raises some flags.
It has been my observation that this selection process is broken and desperately needs to be fixed. No, life isn't fair but a simple nomination and voting process should be.
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Post by Timbertwin on Mar 8, 2010 22:31:01 GMT -6
The nomination and selection process is simple, and it is explained in the LHSSCA By-laws. Each member coach may nominate up to 11 players for all-state. Once those nominations are made, a selection ballot is sent to every member coach. Member coaches then vote for up to 14 players. This year, ballots were sent on Monday and due by noon on Wednesday. The results were announced at the meeting on Saturday.
There is no such thing as a "nominating committee". Every coach has the opportunity to participate in the process if he/she so chooses.
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