To Dive or Not To Dive ?

[ostrya]

I have to agree with Manchuria Man. If I see a player purposely step on the back of an opponent's shoe or pull on a shirt or take a dive, I think the kid is making up for less talent by cheating. I have a lot more respect for the players who play clean and play with heart whether they win or lose.
I have seen players take cheap shots at an opponent. Is that oK? The player might say, I was only trying to shake them up not hurt them. How far is it OK to bend the rules?

[goat]

ostrya i don't think anyone on this thresd would disagree with what you just posted. i for one don't what any kid to play like what you discribed. i think what we are talking about is selling a call to a ref. look at basketball, how many times have you seen a defender go down trying to sell the charge call. thats the kind of play i have been talking about(in soccer). i totally agree with you that the game has no room for cheap shots or players that intentionaly try to hurt other players.

as far as pulling on someones shirt i think even manchurianman whould agree that, that is a big part of the game and as long as the person pulling on the shirt doesn't gain advantage most refs let it go. if i had to blow a wistle for everytime a player pulled on a shirt the game would never get played.

[ShreveDad]

If I see someone taking a dive, gaining an advantage by tugging on a shirt, or committing any other foul that warrants a whistle, I call it. Kids play hard and try to win. It's our job as referees to contol the match. Some players gain the reputation as dirty players, or ones who try to draw a foul. Thats part of the game and the referees for the most part know who they are and deal with it accordingly. I just disagree with bringing moral values into the discussion.

[goat]

well said shrevedad and i think everyone who has posted that diving is part of the game would agree with you. most refs, worth there salt will control that in a game.

[bouree]

I carded a "diver" last night. Not enough cards go out for dives so they continue...

[goat]

hey bouree i know you do because i remember a game where you called it twice! that is my point most "good" refs call it. like it or not it is part of the game, every game where there is a ref! i do agree that it should be called more. then less players will be likely to do it.

[imeg4fun]

exactly , but until more refs start carding, people will still take their dives

[StAmantSoccer]

The only time I'ld dive is if I got fouled and I wanted to make sure I exagerated the push. But I would never hit the ground and roll, after I scream a 4 letter word fury loud enough to where the stands could hear it.

When you dive, if you dont get the call you have to get back up off the ground which cost too much time in my opinion.

[navysoccer]

It really depends on how you define diving. If you're hit or nudged and have the chance to make an opportunity for your team thru a free kick, then diving even if you weren't hit hard enough should be okay. A flagrant dive at an attempt to get a free kick out of nothing is just plain wrong. Anyone guilty of that deserves a yellow card. Watch the professionals, they dive when the time is right and wait till someone nudges them enough to do it.

[Tazmanic]

ShreveDad: You're right. The refs have to control the game.

But your last point is wrong. When you discuss laws and rules of play, you ARE discussing moral values. I have no problem seeking an advantage over the other team WITHIN the rules. And I have a big problem with the whole concept of "professional fouls."

And someone mentioned the concept of it not being a foul if the ref didn't catch it. Bear with me for a moment:

If you drive 5 mph over the speed limit, but the policemen don't catch you, did you still speed?

If you take a towel out of the hotel, but the custodial staff don't notice, was it stealing?

If you hit a car in the parking lot, but nobody saw you, are you still responsible?

If you shoot and kill someone with premeditation, but no one saw you, is it still murder?

[Footy365]

One thing on this subject, someone please properly define diving first, is it exaggerating a foul or flat out no contact falling to get the foul, I feel that we have conflicting views on what is or what isn't a dive.

[manchurianman]

goat said:

ok manchurian man lets talk about your last paragraph. you are a ref right? and you agreed that some refs don't give kids calls because of the diving reputatuion. well shouldn't we as refs be held to a higher moral standard!! you can't have it both ways!! if the kids are expected to play on a high moral standard then so should the refs. their bias towards a player (because of there reputation), should not have an effect on the refs calling!!

while we are talking about it you need to get the chip off your shoulder. you have run off one person on this board because you complained about his opinion but you are quick to critisize anyone that disagrees with you. hdkiga is right lighten up a little!

I wasn't speaking about any bias toward a player. When a player has a reputation for diving and there is some question as to whether or not it's a foul the referee is less likely to call it. That's what I meant by players not getting calls they may be entitled to. No matter what player it is, if a referee recognizes they have been fouled he should either call it or signal advantage.

[manchurianman]

ShreveDad said:

I am truly depressed right now. To think I don't have what it takes to teach my children good moral values, just because I used to push the rules in youth baseball and basketball. To accuse some of lacking what it takes to teach their kids moral values because they push the rules while they are trying to win a soccer match is insane. All of us who have played competitive sports have done something to try and give our team an advantage. To those who go out and try to injure an opponent, you have a case. As far as the rest, please lighten up.

Please explain how far you teach them to "push the rules" to win. In youth sports I personally don't feel that "push the rules" to win is what should be taught. Look in the National Federation rule book. You know what the first "point of Emphasis" is? Number one is Sportsmanship, I wonder why that is? Am I the only one here that thinks that means anything?

[beattle09]

dives are part of the game and so are "professional fouls" heck its part of any sport you look at any sport it is going to happen. just leave it be it will be part of the sport for its entirety JUST LET IT GO

[imeg4fun]

come on beatle u better agree with me

[SulphurBack8]

why imeg4fun u goin to cry?

[shinguard]

Can someone refer me to a spot in any soccer rule book that specifically prohibits taking a dive?

[ShreveDad]

I look at diving in the same light as trying to draw a foul in basketball, by exageration the contact. In baseball, by leaning into a pitch, not getting out the way of a pitch, blocking the plate by the catcher. In football, the quarterback trying to draw the defense offsides. These are all examples of a player pushing the rules to gain an advantage. These are wrong, but I don't consider the players or the coach amoral. Coaches or players that may fall into this category are 1. Coaches telling a player to take someone out or trying to intentionally hurt a player. 2. Coaches in youth leagues not playing players the required amount of time in a game to try and win. ( There was actually a lawsuit won by a parent over Bossier Parks and Rec over football playing time last week) 3. Coaches encouraging the use of drugs to improve athletic performance. I'm sure they are many other cases that people could write about. I agree with you that cheating is wrong, but disagree when it comes to calling into question the morals of someone who does it in the context we are talking about. As far as the examples Tazmaniac used, those are crimes.

[bouree]

"Diving" is addressed in more detail in the book ADVICE to REFEREES on the LAWS of the GAME published by USSF. Under Law 12, Part B, 12.28 Cautionable Offenses, Misconduct 12.28.1 Unsporting Behavior.
A player is cautioned if: He/she fakes an injury or exaggerates the seriousness of an injury. He/she fakes a foul (dives) or exaggerates the severity of a foul.

[Footy365]

Oh, so no exaggerating a foul either. I guess refs do need to tighten up, I see it every game and you rarely see the call. I think the last call I saw anywhere was in an EPL 4 or 5 months ago where Christiano Ronaldo from Man Yoo was called for it.