Franklin 1 Vandebilt 0

[whoahwhoah]

so ben franklins keeper had nothing to do with the win? i mena yall are a great team im sorry you lost, but whats up with all these excuses?

[m]

no excuses from me.

[whoahwhoah]

what grade is #4 from vandy in? he REALLY impressed me with his effort, he hustled the whole game and challenged everyball to the keeper.... he worked his butt off

[Smeagle]

i just have one question... Didn't Vandy use a different goalie for the Shootout??? I think they did but not certain was wondering a reason

[m]

#4 David Vanheeswijk for Vandy is a senior.

[m]

What was said is that the goalie that was in for the shootout had done better in practice that week in stopping PKs.

[usasoccerboy]

Something I will contend with and say should have never been done.

Phillip was in the heat of the battle and warm and loose. This third string keeper not only is cold coming off of the bench, but is also lacking in the experience at such a crucial time. I am not saying things would have turned out differently if Ledet or the other keeper was in goal. I just don't agree with using your keepers as such. In fact, I have been critical of the coaching decisions with Vandy keepers all along. I believe a legitimate starter should have been decided upon, and gone with him starting for every game. I don't agree with splitting games with the keepers.

[Hooligan]

usasoccerbub? Did it ever occur to you that there may be other reasons for Vandebilt using a different keeper? Why don't we give the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt that they made their decision based on the circumstances at the time and not second guess them without the whole picture in front?
Are you really a soccer supporter or just some critic who thinks he has all the answers? It's a shame your views (some of which are very valid) are shadowed by what seems to be a bit of arrogance......YEEESH!

[Hooligan]

BF and Vandy should be congratulated on playing a match which was exciting and entertaining. The final result does not always reflect who the better team is, but I believe that these two were about as equal as two could be (2 straight matches decided by a shootout). Vandy looked to have the upper hand, and BF had more of the intangibles.

I would not be surprised to see both of these in next years final match. But not without STM and possibly Dutchtown having something to say about it.

[usasoccerboy]

I know the coaches at Vandy and I have coached alongside both of them at Vandy. Nevertheless, my criticism is just that, criticism. All coaches are suceptible to it. All coaches are not immune to it.

As to the keeper situation, I feel I know what was going on. I was told some things by some of the parents, especially one of the keepers parents who was apolegetic towards the coaches at Vandy. Still, I disagree with their assertions. That doesn't mean I am angry with them. In fact, I feel they need to be congratulated for their accomplishments. That doesn't mean that I should repress my opinions on the subject. The fact is that Vandy's weakness was exposed and that weakness was the result of a decision that their coaching staff made for the season and was consistent with all along. They for some reason switched keepers for every game instead of sticking with a starter. I feel this bit them you know where in the end. When Kasey Keller and Neil Sullivan were battling for the one keeper
position at Tottenham a few years back, their coach didn't flip flop his starting keeper for every other game. He stuck with one and the other sat the bench. The same thing happened with the USA with Keller and Howard on the bench, and Freidel getting all of the starts. Vandy should have done the same thing. Doug Hamilton wanted to give his 10th graders experience this year. This years senior class, as always, was counted out and sacrificed for the future. This was the reason for Ledet only getting half of the starts. Now it comes to crunch time, and the starting keeper after shutting out the eventual state champions for 2 overtime and regular half periods, decides to volunteer to sit out the shoot out in favor of the third who was doing well at mid week practice. I think that is a problem. For one, Ledet should have stayed in the match. If he loses, he doesn't have to feel the blame, because it was not his fault for losing the game anyway. Again, I am not saying this would have changed the result. Maybe it would have, maybe not. Nevertheless, Vandy seemed vunerable at the GK position and someone finally took advantage of it by playing a tie and forcing a shoot out.

It seemed Vandy was trying not to lose Saturday, instead of playing to win. I feel they didn't play their attack well enough and too many times played the long ball or got rid of the ball too soon under pressure, because they felt like the Ben Franklin defense was on their heels too fast, when in actuality there was time to settle the ball, play it into space, and go after the Franklin defense facing the goal. Still, the game was entertaining. Every game at every level has a flow to it. This one never got into the flow of a well executed match. The flow had the feeling of both teams not trying to make the first mistake. I would have like to have seen better possession to the game considering that I know one of the teams has the ability to play that style of game. There were only glimpses of that abilty in the game and when it happened, they usually got a good shot oppurtunity. I would have like to have seen more of that kind of play from both teams.

[usasoccerboy]

Phillip was not in the shootout. After the overtime periods, Vandy switched keepers, and went with their 3rd stringer for the shootout.

LHSAA, but not FIFA, allows this.

I cannot blame the coaching staff for the loss. I tried to make that evident by saying they should be congratulated. All I am saying is that their handling of their keeper situation might have bitten them in the end.

As for the keeper not diving, again, was he coached on this. Maybe, maybe not. Going to USSF clinics, this kind of topic always gets brought up and that is coaching keepers in practices designed to give coaches quality oppurtunities to teach keepers, yet keep the rest of the field players on the field and involved in the practice. It is hard to do.

As for Phillip, I thought he played well Saturday. He came off of his line and was able to get to most of the balls. But as far as shot stopping, he didn't face too many difficult shots. I talked about this in another thread. I do remember early in the first half, Phillip had a difficult high ball that he caught, while moving back towards the goal. It was a hairy situation, as he could have brought the ball back into the goal, but he made the play, and did not give up the corner. Other than that, he eliminated most franklin oppurtunities by being well positioned.

[usasoccerboy]

Blackhawk, your post has been removed. I was responding to your post above.

[RJB1287]

Congrats to both teams for the well fought game. I thought they both left it all on the field and thats the kind of games i like to see. Congrats to Franklin!

[usasoccerboy]

I agree with that. I just think both teams could have played better. They didn't play bad, they just didn't show good attacking soccer that all soccer fans like to see.

[m]

Here's a follow up article on the Vandy/Franklin Game that was in today's paper.

From the Houma Courier:

www.houmatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040302/SPORTS/403020325/1032

HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER

Terriers make no excuses for missed opportunities in loss

By KELLY McELROY
The Courier

HOUMA -- On Monday, Vandebilt Catholic boys’ soccer coach Doug Hamilton was having a discussion with the seven seniors on his team.

They started talking about their shootout loss to District 7-II foe Ben Franklin (14-2-2) in the Division II state title match Saturday at Buddy Marcello Stadium, denying the Terriers their third straight title.

"I teach honors civics, and all seven of them are in my class," Hamilton said.

But Hamilton didn’t hear excuses or complaints from his seniors inside the walls at Vandebilt.

"Certainly they are disappointed, but just two days after, they were like, 'Coach, we outplayed them; we were the better team. It just wasn’t our year,' " Hamilton said.

"I thought that was pretty mature of them because I thought that was accurate. Not to take anything away from Ben Franklin, because they were much improved from when we beat them 5-1 earlier in the year."

Hamilton said the Terriers missed out on numerous opportunities to score in the title match, the best two coming early and late in the match.

"That’s the story, missed opportunities," Hamilton said. "We had a chance around the 10-minute mark. ... The way he hit it went right to the goalkeeper. If he hit it any other way, it would have gone in. That foreshadowed the rest of the game."

The match went to the second half scoreless, and that’s when Hamilton said the Terriers -- who entered the match ranked first in the state -- began to get even more scoring chances.

"We had multiple opportunities," Hamilton said. "By this time, our guys know we have to pick it up and control the match. We had a couple of corner kicks where we headed the ball to the goalkeeper."

Both Hamilton and Ben Franklin coach Diego Gonzalez, who started the Falcons’ soccer program in 1978, credited Ben Franklin goalie Josh Fogarty with keeping the Falcons in the contest.

"I’ve got to give their goalkeeper credit," Hamilton said. "He handled pretty much every single ball. He didn’t make any spectacular saves, but he handled every single ball. I bet we out-shot them eight to one (ratio)."


The Terriers’ best chance came in the 70th minute, but a high shot at an open kept the game scoreless.

So behind the play of Fogarty, who did not give up a goal in the playoffs, and Vandebilt goalie Phillip Ledet -- who Hamilton said played the best match of his career -- the match went to overtime, and still, no one scored.

"I felt like we were going to win even in the overtime because we were getting so many opportunities," Hamilton said. "Statistically speaking, when you get that many opportunities, you’re bound to connect on one. It’s not like one guy was missing. We were all missing. I think we had three shots that hit the post."

In the shootout, Hamilton -- who said he was especially proud of his seniors -- put in goalie Jason Breaux, who he said is better in penalty-kick situations.

"Some people in the stands may have been surprised by that," Hamilton said. "But they aren’t out at practice every day."

The Falcons, who entered the match ranked third, went on to score three times, clinching the victory on the third kick.

The Terriers found the back of the net just once.

"I’ve been coaching for 13 years, and I wish I could say that I hadn’t seen anything like it before, but it happens," Hamilton said. "The ball is round and the posts are square, and that’s why you play the game."

For Gonzalez, it was his first trip to the state title game and first championship after 20-plus playoff appearances.

Vandebilt and Division I Jesuit were attempting to become the first schools in the state to win three consecutive soccer titles, but both fell in respective finals.

With this year’s run in the playoffs, the Terriers became the second-highest rated program in the state based on a system, which awards points for playoff achievement.

"This was one of the most enjoyable seasons I have had," Hamilton said. "I was proud of the team. They answered a lot of questions after losing 10 seniors. The guys were fun, self-motivated and had lots of talent. I think next year, we’ll again be the team to beat."

[usasoccerboy]

I agree Vandy played the superior game, but to say you were the better team, after getting beat for the second time in a row by a shootout, and after the Vandy coach failed to make the adjustment to get that goal, I find a problem with admission that Vandy was the better team. Ben Franklin deserved to win because they played the smarter game. Like a good chess game with good players, both players move and try not to make the first blunder or mistake. In those circumstances, the superior player will win. Ben Franklin played a stalemate twice, and beat Vandy in the pk department. in both games. Vandy needs to reflect and ask themselves did they make the right adjustments if they made them at all. The A license coach that I was talking to after the game said in his first words that he was surprised the Vandy coaches didn't make a game adjustment to get the winning goal.

Maybe the other keeper is better than Phillip "in practice" at saving pks. Because Phillip is warm at the end of the game and at the time of the shootout, he would be your best choice than an unexperienced player coming cold off of the bench. To all of sudden thrust him into the game at the most crucial time of the year, a shoot out to become the first 3 time state champion, is a bit too much to ask a out of a high school player who rarely got into a game.

I am personally disappointed that my former player, and a kid I know outside of soccer gave up playing in the shootout. I wish he would have demanded to take the shots, because he earned the oppurtunity and since it was the crucial moment, he could have proven himself to his detractors that followed him at that school for his whole career.

If Doug Hamilton says he was playing the best game of his career, then why take him out? The fact is that Phillip is not a slouch keeper. I personally like him in the midfield, but for U14s he was solid all year as a keeper, and when Brandon Gamble of HLB was not available, I could always count on Phillip to play goal at the U16 level. He is a good keeper. His size is a weakness, but he makes up for it in his quickness and reaction speed. I have seen Phillip make great saves. But this year, Phillip had to split time at the Goal keeper position and I feel that not only affected his sharpness, but also his confidence. To play the keeper position at any level, the keeper has to always feel confident, even when under heavy fire. They always have to have that attitude of never say die, and never quit. Well, Phillip played a great game Saturday night. This coming off of rarely playing if at all his Junior year. So this year was his one and only, and too bad he had to share it, because I believed if he would have played all year long, he would have been ready to be under fire for the final shootout.

Not to get on the keeper that came in to the game. Jason Braud, was under no position to be ready to take the pks. In practice, he can warm up, but the reality is, there is no pressure in practice. I think it was a bad move. I believe Phillip would have done better. I saw how Braud played, and he was badly beaten on many of those pks. Most keepers are, but Braud was not showing the intensity to get to the ball in that situation. He at one point got his hands on one of the pks, but that one too still trickeled in. It happens.

Again, I don't want to say this was something to harp on. The thing is, if you want to be honest, Vandy lossed to superior tactics from Ben Franklin. Ben Franklin played the game to win the state championship and whether you think Vandy were better or not is irrelevant. Franklin didn't have to score. They were banking on the fact that they had a better keeper and forced that as the deciding issue. You have to give credit where credit is due. Yes Vandy probably outshot BF 8-1, but that doesn't mean Vandy was better. Only the scoreboard makes the difference. And when a team can do it twice in a row, then you have to question whether your tactics need to be adjusted.

[whoahwhoah]

well put... i dont konw if yall remember, but earlier this year there was a thread on the "biggest rivalry" and almost noone gave credit to the franklin v. vandy rivalry.... there was no better way to end the season for both teams than to play each other, im pretty sure vandy would have LOVED to beat their rival, franklin, for the state championship, and i know that franklin LOVED beating vandy to win it all...well it is obviously an intense rivalry that will create great games for years to come...