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Post by notdoxxingmyself on Feb 27, 2024 10:13:03 GMT -6
per the suggestion of Bish I'm starting a new thread about this because the debate overran the "forum sucks now" thread
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Post by theicecreamfish on Feb 27, 2024 10:16:13 GMT -6
If money can persuade LHSAA to make this change Gallstar, how do we get the money? Magic? Casinos? I don't have many ideas.
Or...the other idea is to get 2/3 majority vote on this change with the LHSAA Convention (to my understanding from the other thread), which I would have to try and understand from the other perspective. What would be the drawbacks from making this change? I'm sure there are some.
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Post by upper90 on Feb 27, 2024 10:23:16 GMT -6
I think a lot of people are forgetting that the LHSAA came up with distinct definitions of "Select" and "Non-Select", thus creating an almost even split throughout the state (in terms of soccer, there are more Select than Non-Select). Just looking at boys soccer, here is what a breakdown would look like if you created 2 Divisions from each split: Non-Select Division I:School Name | Enrollment | Dutchtown | 2613 | Denham Springs | 2381 | St. Amant | 2364 | Chalmette | 2174 | East Ascension | 2098 | Ponchatoula | 2093 | Walker | 2078 | Mandeville | 2066 | West Monroe | 2004 | Barbe | 1970 | Sulphur | 1897 | Airline | 1866 | Zachary | 1788 | Slidell | 1705 | Covington | 1580 | Central - B.R. | 1554 | Northshore | 1534 | Fontainebleau | 1532 | Benton | 1491 | Hahnville | 1485 | Destrehan | 1449 | Live Oak | 1364 | Haughton | 1332 | Thibodaux | 1315 | H.L. Bourgeois | 1301 | Terrebonne | 1297 | Parkway | 1290 | New Iberia | 1265 | Central Lafourche | 1259 | Ruston | 1239 | East St. John | 1142 | Natchitoches Central | 1140 | Sam Houston | 1137 | Ouachita Parish | 1134 |
Non-Select Division II:School Name | Enrollment | Salmen | 1058 | Neville | 1033 | Northwood - Shrev. | 1029 | South Lafourche | 995 | West Ouachita | 991 | Westgate | 936 | Belle Chasse | 933 | South Terrebonne | 923 | Lakeshore | 846 | A.J. Ellender | 816 | Pearl River | 815 | LaGrange | 813 | North DeSoto | 809 | North Vermilion | 807 | Beau Chene | 769 | Cecilia | 761 | Leesville | 755 | Minden | 732 | Morgan City | 679 | Franklinton | 675 | Bossier | 660 | Lutcher | 650 | DeRidder | 644 | Grant | 613 | West Feliciana | 602 | St. Martinville | 544 | South Beauregard | 540 | Sterlington | 534 | Kaplan | 530 | Erath | 527 | Port Allen | 450 | Union Parish | 350 | Baker | 324 |
Select Division III:School Name | Enrollment | Bonnabel | 2311 | Catholic - B.R. | 2147 | Jesuit | 1925 | John Ehret | 1923 | Brother Martin | 1839 | Southside | 1828 | Captain Shreve | 1783 | Lafayette | 1744 | Acadiana | 1707 | Hammond | 1641 | Baton Rouge | 1583 | West Jefferson | 1569 | C.E. Byrd | 1470 | Alexandria | 1469 | St. Paul's | 1408 | Woodlawn - B.R. | 1398 | East Jefferson | 1379 | Huntington | 1301 | Pineville | 1277 | Riverdale | 1267 | Liberty | 1230 | Carencro | 1161 | Edna Karr | 1121 | L. W. Higgins | 1105 | Archbishop Rummel | 1084 | Ben Franklin | 1057 | Southwood | 1019 | St. Thomas More | 1016 | Tioga | 931 | Comeaux | 926 | Caddo Magnet | 888 | Holy Cross | 881 | Teurlings Catholic | 875 | Tara | 846 | Kenner Discovery Health Science | 824 | New Orleans Military & Maritime | 796 | The Willow School | 769 | David Thibodaux | 768 | Archbishop Shaw | 758 | George Washington Carver | 755 | McKinley | 742 | Belaire | 681 | Livonia | 676 | Opelousas | 674 | E.D. White | 668 | Archbishop Hannan | 663 | Vandebilt Catholic | 637 | St. Michael the Archangel | 623 | Acadiana Renaissance Charter | 595 | Young Audiences Charter | 587 | Livingston Collegiate | 582 | Washington-Marion | 572 | Buckeye | 570 |
Select Division IV:School Name | Enrollment | Haynes Academy | 553 | Lord Beaconsfield Landry | 541 | Sophie B. Wright | 522 | Patrick Taylor - Science/Tech. | 520 | Bolton | 500 | University Lab | 492 | Parkview Baptist | 484 | St. Louis Catholic | 482 | De La Salle | 453 | Morris Jeff | 440 | St. Charles | 418 | Loyola Prep | 401 | Thomas Jefferson | 398 | Sarah T. Reed | 391 | International H.S. of New Orleans | 388 | Northlake Christian | 386 | Isidore Newman | 383 | Jefferson Rise Charter | 378 | Calvary Baptist | 357 | Episcopal | 352 | Independence | 345 | Pope John Paul II | 345 | North Caddo | 333 | Lafayette Christian | 329 | Fisher | 327 | Evangel Christian | 313 | St. Thomas Aquinas | 304 | Dunham | 301 | Catholic - N.I. | 286 | Houma Christian | 282 | Metairie Park Country Day | 266 | Rapides | 254 | Holy Savior Menard | 252 | Capitol | 251 | Ouachita Christian | 236 | Ascension Episcopal | 230 | Glenmora | 226 | Covenant Christian | 213 | Ascension Christian | 209 | Riverside Academy | 202 | Westminster Christian | 201 | St. Frederick | 200 | Episcopal of Acadiana | 195 | Vermilion Catholic | 182 | Living School of New Orleans | 179 | Delta Charter | 164 | St. Martin's Episcopal | 156 | Lycee Francais de la Nouvelle Orleans | 153 | Christ Episcopal School | 147 | Westminster Christian - Lafayette | 132 | Grace Christian | 115 | Berchmans Academy | 91 | Ecole Classique | 88 |
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 27, 2024 10:26:41 GMT -6
It's really up to school leadership/administration (directors, principals, ADs, etc.) to make the change.
From what I understand, and I could be wrong, LHSAA is just the governing body that oversees high school athletics and enforces the rules. Every rule in place was essentially put there by some school administration proposing it, and then getting it passed by other administrators during their yearly meetings.
Real change comes when school leaders propose change and then vote on it.
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Post by theicecreamfish on Feb 27, 2024 10:28:16 GMT -6
I think a lot of people are forgetting that the LHSAA came up with distinct definitions of "Select" and "Non-Select", thus creating an almost even split throughout the state (in terms of soccer, there are more Select than Non-Select). Just looking at boys soccer, here is what a breakdown would look like if you created 2 Divisions from each split: Non-Select Division I:School Name | Enrollment | Dutchtown | 2613 | Denham Springs | 2381 | St. Amant | 2364 | Chalmette | 2174 | East Ascension | 2098 | Ponchatoula | 2093 | Walker | 2078 | Mandeville | 2066 | West Monroe | 2004 | Barbe | 1970 | Sulphur | 1897 | Airline | 1866 | Zachary | 1788 | Slidell | 1705 | Covington | 1580 | Central - B.R. | 1554 | Northshore | 1534 | Fontainebleau | 1532 | Benton | 1491 | Hahnville | 1485 | Destrehan | 1449 | Live Oak | 1364 | Haughton | 1332 | Thibodaux | 1315 | H.L. Bourgeois | 1301 | Terrebonne | 1297 | Parkway | 1290 | New Iberia | 1265 | Central Lafourche | 1259 | Ruston | 1239 | East St. John | 1142 | Natchitoches Central | 1140 | Sam Houston | 1137 | Ouachita Parish | 1134 |
Non-Select Division II:School Name | Enrollment | Salmen | 1058 | Neville | 1033 | Northwood - Shrev. | 1029 | South Lafourche | 995 | West Ouachita | 991 | Westgate | 936 | Belle Chasse | 933 | South Terrebonne | 923 | Lakeshore | 846 | A.J. Ellender | 816 | Pearl River | 815 | LaGrange | 813 | North DeSoto | 809 | North Vermilion | 807 | Beau Chene | 769 | Cecilia | 761 | Leesville | 755 | Minden | 732 | Morgan City | 679 | Franklinton | 675 | Bossier | 660 | Lutcher | 650 | DeRidder | 644 | Grant | 613 | West Feliciana | 602 | St. Martinville | 544 | South Beauregard | 540 | Sterlington | 534 | Kaplan | 530 | Erath | 527 | Port Allen | 450 | Union Parish | 350 | Baker | 324 |
Select Division III:School Name | Enrollment | Bonnabel | 2311 | Catholic - B.R. | 2147 | Jesuit | 1925 | John Ehret | 1923 | Brother Martin | 1839 | Southside | 1828 | Captain Shreve | 1783 | Lafayette | 1744 | Acadiana | 1707 | Hammond | 1641 | Baton Rouge | 1583 | West Jefferson | 1569 | C.E. Byrd | 1470 | Alexandria | 1469 | St. Paul's | 1408 | Woodlawn - B.R. | 1398 | East Jefferson | 1379 | Huntington | 1301 | Pineville | 1277 | Riverdale | 1267 | Liberty | 1230 | Carencro | 1161 | Edna Karr | 1121 | L. W. Higgins | 1105 | Archbishop Rummel | 1084 | Ben Franklin | 1057 | Southwood | 1019 | St. Thomas More | 1016 | Tioga | 931 | Comeaux | 926 | Caddo Magnet | 888 | Holy Cross | 881 | Teurlings Catholic | 875 | Tara | 846 | Kenner Discovery Health Science | 824 | New Orleans Military & Maritime | 796 | The Willow School | 769 | David Thibodaux | 768 | Archbishop Shaw | 758 | George Washington Carver | 755 | McKinley | 742 | Belaire | 681 | Livonia | 676 | Opelousas | 674 | E.D. White | 668 | Archbishop Hannan | 663 | Vandebilt Catholic | 637 | St. Michael the Archangel | 623 | Acadiana Renaissance Charter | 595 | Young Audiences Charter | 587 | Livingston Collegiate | 582 | Washington-Marion | 572 | Buckeye | 570 |
Select Division IV:School Name | Enrollment | Haynes Academy | 553 | Lord Beaconsfield Landry | 541 | Sophie B. Wright | 522 | Patrick Taylor - Science/Tech. | 520 | Bolton | 500 | University Lab | 492 | Parkview Baptist | 484 | St. Louis Catholic | 482 | De La Salle | 453 | Morris Jeff | 440 | St. Charles | 418 | Loyola Prep | 401 | Thomas Jefferson | 398 | Sarah T. Reed | 391 | International H.S. of New Orleans | 388 | Northlake Christian | 386 | Isidore Newman | 383 | Jefferson Rise Charter | 378 | Calvary Baptist | 357 | Episcopal | 352 | Independence | 345 | Pope John Paul II | 345 | North Caddo | 333 | Lafayette Christian | 329 | Fisher | 327 | Evangel Christian | 313 | St. Thomas Aquinas | 304 | Dunham | 301 | Catholic - N.I. | 286 | Houma Christian | 282 | Metairie Park Country Day | 266 | Rapides | 254 | Holy Savior Menard | 252 | Capitol | 251 | Ouachita Christian | 236 | Ascension Episcopal | 230 | Glenmora | 226 | Covenant Christian | 213 | Ascension Christian | 209 | Riverside Academy | 202 | Westminster Christian | 201 | St. Frederick | 200 | Episcopal of Acadiana | 195 | Vermilion Catholic | 182 | Living School of New Orleans | 179 | Delta Charter | 164 | St. Martin's Episcopal | 156 | Lycee Francais de la Nouvelle Orleans | 153 | Christ Episcopal School | 147 | Westminster Christian - Lafayette | 132 | Grace Christian | 115 | Berchmans Academy | 91 | Ecole Classique | 88 |
May be a stupid question, but is Belaire considered a private school? This doesn't change much. More or less asking out of curiosity.
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Post by notdoxxingmyself on Feb 27, 2024 10:35:48 GMT -6
it's a magnet school
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Post by theicecreamfish on Feb 27, 2024 10:38:30 GMT -6
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Post by SterPanthers on Feb 27, 2024 10:50:32 GMT -6
I don't support a split in any sport. The best team is the best team, regardless of where their kids come from. How can you call yourself a state champion if you didn't have to face the best team?
Unpopular opinion these days I know.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 27, 2024 11:01:07 GMT -6
If money can persuade LHSAA to make this change Gallstar, how do we get the money? Magic? Casinos? I don't have many ideas. Or...the other idea is to get 2/3 majority vote on this change with the LHSAA Convention (to my understanding from the other thread), which I would have to try and understand from the other perspective. What would be the drawbacks from making this change? I'm sure there are some. He doesn't mean money in the sense of bribes/donations/funding for change. He means money in that 90-95 percent of schools (and 100% of the LHSAA) simply don't care about anything other than football (and maybe basketball) because the sports are non-revenue generating. Volleyball is same way. Private schools dominate. It won't split (just like soccer) because there isn't enough interest for it to do so. LHSAA probably just about broke even on soccer state championships if I had to guess and now you are going to add more games at potentially a different venue? No shot. You have a better chance of getting the LHSAA to adopt rules that allow student athletes more choice (a one-time transfer rule was voted down at most recent convention) or making all public schools/districts open enrollment (similar to Lafayette/New Orleans) than you do of convincing a bunch of people who don't care to listen to you complain about Jesuit/St. Paul's/Catholic-BR dominating boy's soccer. If you were to split like mentioned above schools would still complain. The obsession with championships is what kills youth sports in this country.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 27, 2024 11:09:03 GMT -6
I don't support a split in any sport. The best team is the best team, regardless of where their kids come from. How can you call yourself a state champion if you didn't have to face the best team? Unpopular opinion these days I know. I can be swayed either way to be honest, but I'd like to see the split to see what would change in the high school soccer landscape. Would it grow the sport more? I have a feeling we'd be on here complaining again about the same non-select schools winning over and over again like we already do now. Only 3 teams have won a state championship in DI boys since '09. and one of those teams won two just recently. So from '09-'20 only two different teams won a state title. So, yeah, I get why some want a split to change it up. And let's be honest, these teams won't be effected by a split. They'll still keep winning and playing for state titles. I think it would be cool to see these DI and DII select schools combined to play against each other for both districts and state tournaments. My big point with the split is either all sports should be split or none should be split.
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Post by theicecreamfish on Feb 27, 2024 11:14:17 GMT -6
If money can persuade LHSAA to make this change Gallstar, how do we get the money? Magic? Casinos? I don't have many ideas. Or...the other idea is to get 2/3 majority vote on this change with the LHSAA Convention (to my understanding from the other thread), which I would have to try and understand from the other perspective. What would be the drawbacks from making this change? I'm sure there are some. He doesn't mean money in the sense of bribes/donations/funding for change. He means money in that 90-95 percent of schools (and 100% of the LHSAA) simply don't care about anything other than football (and maybe basketball) because the sports are non-revenue generating. Volleyball is same way. Private schools dominate. It won't split (just like soccer) because there isn't enough interest for it to do so. LHSAA probably just about broke even on soccer state championships if I had to guess and now you are going to add more games at potentially a different venue? No shot. You have a better chance of getting the LHSAA to adopt rules that allow student athletes more choice (a one-time transfer rule was voted down at most recent convention) or making all public schools/districts open enrollment (similar to Lafayette/New Orleans) than you do of convincing a bunch of people who don't care to listen to you complain about Jesuit/St. Paul's/Catholic-BR dominating boy's soccer. If you were to split like mentioned above schools would still complain. The obsession with championships is what kills youth sports in this country. If that's the case, is there a way to fix the current system we have right now? Or should we just keep the current system? At the least I feel like it would be a good change (on a separate note that was mentioned before) to move back to a 24 team playoff so that there aren't as many blowouts in the playoffs. I don't think that making playoffs as the 32 seed is worth it if all that it gives as a reward is a mercy-rule beating by the one seed.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 27, 2024 11:14:54 GMT -6
If money can persuade LHSAA to make this change Gallstar, how do we get the money? Magic? Casinos? I don't have many ideas. Or...the other idea is to get 2/3 majority vote on this change with the LHSAA Convention (to my understanding from the other thread), which I would have to try and understand from the other perspective. What would be the drawbacks from making this change? I'm sure there are some. He doesn't mean money in the sense of bribes/donations/funding for change. He means money in that 90-95 percent of schools (and 100% of the LHSAA) simply don't care about anything other than football (and maybe basketball) because the sports are non-revenue generating. Volleyball is same way. Private schools dominate. It won't split (just like soccer) because there isn't enough interest for it to do so. LHSAA probably just about broke even on soccer state championships if I had to guess and now you are going to add more games at potentially a different venue? No shot. You have a better chance of getting the LHSAA to adopt rules that allow student athletes more choice (a one-time transfer rule was voted down at most recent convention) or making all public schools/districts open enrollment (similar to Lafayette/New Orleans) than you do of convincing a bunch of people who don't care to listen to you complain about Jesuit/St. Paul's/Catholic-BR dominating boy's soccer. If you were to split like mentioned above schools would still complain. The obsession with championships is what kills youth sports in this country. Agree. Heck, there are schools with soccer programs that don't care what happens to the sport so why would schools without them care? but if a school's administration would bring up a proposition to split and have multiple championships, and by some miracle it was to pass then LHSAA would then be bound to honor and host those championships, correct?
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Post by tlabat on Feb 27, 2024 11:19:15 GMT -6
He doesn't mean money in the sense of bribes/donations/funding for change. He means money in that 90-95 percent of schools (and 100% of the LHSAA) simply don't care about anything other than football (and maybe basketball) because the sports are non-revenue generating. Volleyball is same way. Private schools dominate. It won't split (just like soccer) because there isn't enough interest for it to do so. LHSAA probably just about broke even on soccer state championships if I had to guess and now you are going to add more games at potentially a different venue? No shot. You have a better chance of getting the LHSAA to adopt rules that allow student athletes more choice (a one-time transfer rule was voted down at most recent convention) or making all public schools/districts open enrollment (similar to Lafayette/New Orleans) than you do of convincing a bunch of people who don't care to listen to you complain about Jesuit/St. Paul's/Catholic-BR dominating boy's soccer. If you were to split like mentioned above schools would still complain. The obsession with championships is what kills youth sports in this country. If that's the case, is there a way to fix the current system we have right now? Or should we just keep the current system? At the least I feel like it would be a good change (on a separate note that was mentioned before) to move back to a 24 team playoff so that there aren't as many blowouts in the playoffs. I don't think that making playoffs as the 32 seed is worth it if all that it gives as a reward is a mercy-rule beating by the one seed. The only people complaining about the current system are the schools who have lost in 2nd round / quarterfinals every year to Jesuit/SPS/Catholic-BR. I'd imagine the perspective about what is right or wrong with the current system should come from a variety of sources not just those particular schools.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 27, 2024 11:22:11 GMT -6
He doesn't mean money in the sense of bribes/donations/funding for change. He means money in that 90-95 percent of schools (and 100% of the LHSAA) simply don't care about anything other than football (and maybe basketball) because the sports are non-revenue generating. Volleyball is same way. Private schools dominate. It won't split (just like soccer) because there isn't enough interest for it to do so. LHSAA probably just about broke even on soccer state championships if I had to guess and now you are going to add more games at potentially a different venue? No shot. You have a better chance of getting the LHSAA to adopt rules that allow student athletes more choice (a one-time transfer rule was voted down at most recent convention) or making all public schools/districts open enrollment (similar to Lafayette/New Orleans) than you do of convincing a bunch of people who don't care to listen to you complain about Jesuit/St. Paul's/Catholic-BR dominating boy's soccer. If you were to split like mentioned above schools would still complain. The obsession with championships is what kills youth sports in this country. Agree. Heck, there are schools with soccer programs that don't care what happens to the sport so why would schools without them care? but if a school's administration would bring up a proposition to split and have multiple championships, and by some miracle it was to pass then LHSAA would then be bound to honor and host those championships, correct? any school can propose legislation to be added to the Annual LHSAA Convention. You then must get 2/3rds of voting schools to vote for your proposal. Any time you put anything up for a vote at an LHSAA convention you are opening Pandora's box, especially when it comes to soccer, as so few school administrators have the faintest concept of what goes into our sport (i.e. showcases/TDP/etc and the malarkey that happened with all that stuff being one prominent example)
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Post by theicecreamfish on Feb 27, 2024 11:28:10 GMT -6
Agree. Heck, there are schools with soccer programs that don't care what happens to the sport so why would schools without them care? but if a school's administration would bring up a proposition to split and have multiple championships, and by some miracle it was to pass then LHSAA would then be bound to honor and host those championships, correct? any school can propose legislation to be added to the Annual LHSAA Convention. You then must get 2/3rds of voting schools to vote for your proposal. Any time you put anything up for a vote at an LHSAA convention you are opening Pandora's box, especially when it comes to soccer, as so few school administrators have the faintest concept of what goes into our sport (i.e. showcases/TDP/etc and the malarkey that happened with all that stuff being one prominent example) So, should it be left alone? Seems like a lot of trouble to even attempt to change what's already in place.
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Post by tlabat on Feb 27, 2024 11:32:33 GMT -6
any school can propose legislation to be added to the Annual LHSAA Convention. You then must get 2/3rds of voting schools to vote for your proposal. Any time you put anything up for a vote at an LHSAA convention you are opening Pandora's box, especially when it comes to soccer, as so few school administrators have the faintest concept of what goes into our sport (i.e. showcases/TDP/etc and the malarkey that happened with all that stuff being one prominent example) So, should it be left alone? Seems like a lot of trouble to even attempt to change what's already in place. In my opinion, yes, leave the current system in place. Does this mean that *insert public school of your choice* may never win a state championship? Maybe. Does that diminish the effort/accomplishments/progress those athletes and coaches have made at that school in preparing their players for their next stage in life? Absolutely not.
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Post by soccerbr on Feb 27, 2024 11:37:56 GMT -6
Why would Southside, Acadiana, & Lafayette be considered select? Aren't they public schools in Lafayette?
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Post by theicecreamfish on Feb 27, 2024 11:38:20 GMT -6
So, should it be left alone? Seems like a lot of trouble to even attempt to change what's already in place. In my opinion, yes, leave the current system in place. Does this mean that *insert public school of your choice* may never win a state championship? Maybe. Does that diminish the effort/accomplishments/progress those athletes and coaches have made at that school in preparing their players for their next stage in life? Absolutely not. I could understand this. I guess it really isn't all about winning. I don't really stand on either side of this debate, but I do feel bad for public school programs that haven't had much success in playoffs.
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Post by retired_thibodaux_coach on Feb 27, 2024 11:40:37 GMT -6
Why would Southside, Acadiana, & Lafayette be considered select? Aren't they public schools in Lafayette? apparently their school district has school choice
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Post by tlabat on Feb 27, 2024 11:41:50 GMT -6
Why would Southside, Acadiana, & Lafayette be considered select? Aren't they public schools in Lafayette? You have to understand the definition of Select - which is a hot topic at the LHSAA currently. It doesn't just mean private. Some public schools are defined as Select based on where their enrollment can come from.
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