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Post by thruball on Dec 21, 2006 19:47:22 GMT -6
Just looking at some of the scores from this year and some of the comments about blowouts and came up with this question. We have one game that was stopped with time on the clock this year with the score sitting at 14 - 0. Should this be allowed in a district contest or should a mercy rule be passed? If so, what would be the guidelines? This is in NO WAY a knock at either of these teams for what went on in this game. I respect these teams and understand that there were reasons unknown to me or others on this board on why the game was stopped.
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Dec 21, 2006 19:55:05 GMT -6
Just looking at some of the scores from this year and some of the comments about blowouts and came up with this question. We have one game that was stopped with time on the clock this year with the score sitting at 14 - 0. Should this be allowed in a district contest or should a mercy rule be passed? If so, what would be the guidelines? This is in NO WAY a knock at either of these teams for what went on in this game. I respect these teams and understand that there were reasons unknown to me or others on this board on why the game was stopped. A mercy rule is a touchy topic. While I can see the reasoning behind it, I would rather walk off the field knowing I finished a game and lost 25 to nothing, rather that I had to twalk off because I wasnt even good enough to finish a game. While a mercy rule will stop the scores from getting out of hand, it is up to the players to make sure the scores doesnt get too disgraceful. The players should be disiplined enough to pass the ball, and takes shots. If it means shanking your shot on purpose than do it. Some coaches will only allow there players to score off corners when the score gets high. Also, I have heard coaches signal to their players to work the ball more than scoring on breakaways. Usually when the score is high, it is the subs that are on the field near the end of the game, and it is a good workout for them to work on their passing, or the reason they arent a starter. They should use that time to practice these skills then. I think the mercy rule takes away from the sport. However, this is just my opinions, and I respect the others who think the mercy rule would be a good idea.
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Post by lakeview on Dec 21, 2006 20:18:51 GMT -6
Some states have this rule, just like softball. I've heard that 8-0 will suffice.
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Post by Tigertail on Dec 21, 2006 20:21:56 GMT -6
Don't think a mercy rule is needed, just common sense and courtesy by the coaches involved on the winning side.
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Post by lakeview on Dec 21, 2006 20:23:47 GMT -6
Wish it were so. FHS beat someone 22-0 a few years ago. Redicoulous.
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Post by alleyball on Dec 21, 2006 20:57:37 GMT -6
Its my feeling that coaches should be creative enough to prevent scores from getting to far out of hand, especially if they start earlier in the game with implementing certain restraints to the team. Simple substitutions will not work, because every teenager wants to score, especially if they are coming off the bench and have not had many opportunities before. If a coach knows he will dominate a team going in, he should have a game plan to where after 2 or 3 goals are scored, he implements factor #1 to his attackers, after the team scores another 2 goals, he implements factor #2, and then factor #3, and on and on and on. Coaches should be able to implement various things as factors for his team, that will work on various aspects of their game. For examples of factors: 1) Something as simple as number of touches prior to a shot. 2) Attack from one side, but you must bring it back around to the other side prior to taking a shot. 3) You can only shoot off a cross. 4) You can only shoot off a cross using 1 touch. 5) You can only shoot off a cross using your opposite foot 6) You can only shoot off a cross using your head (headers only). 7) You can only cross with your opposite foot and you can only shoot off of that cross using one of the restrictions listed in #4 - #6. 8) You have to attack from one side, then reverse to the other, and then use a certain amount of touches prior to taking a shot. and on, and on, and on. or any combination or variation of these.
I'm also certain there are many other factors that can be placed on the attackers of a team to minimize shots, thereby minimizing goals. The key is to have these ready as a coach when you are going into a game where 1 team is over matched, and to start implementing them early on. Don't wait until you are 4 or 5 goals up.
Finally, a coach doesn't have to make an announcement so that the other team realizes what he or she is doing, they just have to make sure they implement it via his/her players.
Anyway, that is just my thoughts and feelings, and I am also open to others.
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Post by thruball on Dec 21, 2006 21:34:38 GMT -6
Please keep this to the subject. No finger pointing or name calling. Just opinions about the rule please.
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Post by mills7590 on Dec 21, 2006 21:46:34 GMT -6
People should be smart enough to know when enough's enough. To me, anything over 6-0 is enough shame. I think there should be a rule, because there are coach's/player's out there that are ahole's. Not to get too much into it, but there should be a fine for over a 7 or 8 - 0 game. Nothing big. Just something to let them know "hey don't be a jack*ss about it and crank up the score". Spare them the humiliation (especially if its at their home field). Its common courtesy. Basically like alleyball said, usually coaches or players can come up with something creative, but logical.
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Post by sosoplayer24 on Dec 21, 2006 21:53:10 GMT -6
Very good survey for everyone who has been on both sides of this. I can see good arguments for and against a mercy rule in soccer.
Voting for the mercy rule - Several times each year we have post on this board condeming coaches for running up the score on someone. The post always addresses sportsmanship of the team and coach and brings in to questions the coach allowing players to pad their stats. It gets nasty for a few days and then the post goes away. The majority of the people are not calling for a mercy rule as much as they are asking the coach to show mercy.
Voting against the mercy rule - Assuming that all coaches will pull their teams back and show sportsmanship is asking a lot. When a coach works his/her team each week on passing and scoring it is hard for them to ask their team to stop when they have the opportunity work against other teams. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do but it is hard. In a era of high scoring football and basketball games where the pollsters are looking for "style points" it is hard to tell your team to stop. I have seen post on this board from players that have said they would rather a team play all out rather than pull back on them.
What is right or wrong is hard to determine and I think it still needs to be left up to the coaches and players to do the right thing rather than controlled by a rule. All coaches need to be aware of the old saying "what goes around comes around" and someday you could be on the end up one of those lopsided games.
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a9imus
All-District
Posts: 249
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Post by a9imus on Dec 21, 2006 22:15:48 GMT -6
I agree with alleyball. The coach can control scoring by putting restrictions on the players. This allows the players to continue to play hard, work on necessary skills, but limit the number of goals scored. I've seen this done at the REC, PREMIER & HS levels.
There's no real satisfaction, for anyone, in running up the score on an inferior team (even if it's your subs scoring the goals).
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Post by tbiff114 on Dec 22, 2006 9:39:22 GMT -6
I agree with trying to find inventive ways of not scoring when the score is getting close to douvble digits, but it is hard to tell the players who normally don't play not to score. This maybe their only opportunity to get a varsity goal. You can play keep away and only score off of one touchor headers, but sometimes it is truly an accident of the ball goes in the goal.
Some teams really don't mean to "run up the score". I know players that walk off the field feeling horrible about the score though they just won. Sometimes it just happens.
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Post by Wofford Dad f/k/a SJA Dad on Dec 22, 2006 9:48:59 GMT -6
A double digit score to nothing is a travesty, and should never happen. I remember being appalled at seeing that 19-0 score in the playoffs. It accomplishes nothing, and any coach that allows that to happen is doing a disservice to his school and to his players. When it gets to 6-0, no starter should be on the field, or if they are, defenders should be forward to give them a chance to score. Work on your passing -- work on your off foot -- work on headers -- the point is to treat it like an extended practice at doing things at which you lack top skill. But you should never -- ever -- ever humiliate anyone by going into double digits. Some of us are parents. Some are coaches. All are in a position to influence young women and men to conduct themselves with dignity and class. Piling it on a helpless opponent is neither.
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Post by PumasFC on Dec 22, 2006 11:36:48 GMT -6
The subject of running up the score got me in a lot of hot water last year. Personally I don't like the mercy rule. Having said that I agree with those that say the coach should NOT shout out across the field to players not to score. Please be a little more subtle than that. pass the word to player before you sub them in to change the tactics (i.e. scoring off crosses or headers). Substitute early if you know it's going to be a blowout, come on you as a coach know when you're going to thump someone (Central, Walker Woodlawn in D1D4, Peabody in D2D3). Start subbing out your starters early and give those bench warmers significant time to pay them back for all their hard work at practice. Worst of all when watching one of these one sided affairs is to see the losing team quit trying. You sure don't get any satisfaction out of those games. Hopefully coaches will find those creative ways to make it look like a game instead of a massacre it is.
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Dec 22, 2006 17:17:45 GMT -6
A double digit score to nothing is a travesty, and should never happen. I remember being appalled at seeing that 19-0 score in the playoffs. It accomplishes nothing, and any coach that allows that to happen is doing a disservice to his school and to his players. I believe it is just as much the players responsibility as the coach's. The players should know that when the score is getting high to start working on their weaknesses without the coach's permission.
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Post by know1important on Dec 22, 2006 19:35:01 GMT -6
hypothetical.....but what if you are playing in an extremely weak district, do you play your starters for ten minutes for all your district games? Then when the playoffs come your team isn't game fit because you haven't allowed to get your starters to play. Passing a ball around a team that knows your doing so, only can go so long, trust me they figure it out after a while. I'm not saying run the score up by any means,but..................
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Dec 22, 2006 19:42:59 GMT -6
hypothetical.....but what if you are playing in an extremely weak district, do you play your starters for ten minutes for all your district games? Then when the playoffs come your team isn't game fit because you haven't allowed to get your starters to play. Passing a ball around a team that knows your doing so, only can go so long, trust me they figure it out after a while. I'm not saying run the score up by any means,but.................. Passing the ball, working crosses, than trapping it placing it back... I am not saying don't limit your starters playing times, but at the same time dont run up the score. If you are playing in a district where u can score 8/9 goals in 20 minutes in EVERY match up, than you should scheduled a hard pre-district setting and u would just be saying in sync...
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Post by know1important on Dec 22, 2006 19:47:42 GMT -6
pre district is November and december.......what about January with the playoffs to follow. there is no solution......Sit you starters for a month. its not even my kids team just know the situation thats all.....
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Dec 22, 2006 19:50:08 GMT -6
pre district is November and december.......what about January with the playoffs to follow. there is no solution......Sit you starters for a month. its not even my kids team just know the situation thats all..... Some districts still play regular season games on byes, or breaks in district play in January. It is possible to find a solution to the problem as a coach. However, the players and coaching staff would have to adjust it to their situation, that is all I am saying...
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Post by cornerflag on Dec 22, 2006 20:40:19 GMT -6
I think a mercy rule is an absolutely terrible idea... Firstly, it would induce goal scoring, not prevent it. Say we set the mark at an 8 point differential. We would have teams run out and get their 8-0 in 20 or 25 minutes, and that would be it. Secondly, it is more likely than not that a team that would be "saved" by the mercy rule once will have it happen again, and probably again. So we have weak teams that continually play shortened games, taking away from minutes where they would be learning and developing a furthur understanding of the game. This isn't how their programs are going to improve.
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Dec 23, 2006 8:36:32 GMT -6
I agree with cornerflag. Yes, none of us (I hope) like to needlessly run up the scores on teams, and we don't like to hear about it. But, if I am coaching a beginning or struggling high school program, I don't want anyone to take any mercy on me. That is not how my team will learn and get better. As a coach, I would make sure that my players and parents understood that we were trying to get better. I would make them understand that I didn't care if we gave up 10 or 15 or 20 goals, that we were going to keep playing until we figured out how to stop the other team (or slow them down). I would not want the other team to let up if I was trying to get better. That may be the nice thing to do at the time, but it doesn't help me out in the long run.
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