Bashing of Referees

[lakeview]

maryland indoor soccer league head?

[sooner]

The more I learn about the game, the less I say about the refs. But, since I don't know everything yet, here's my $.02 worth :


It's a thankless job, and it's too easy for know-it-all parents to find something to criticize. There are no more perfect refs than there are perfect players . . . or perfect parents. The worst I can say abut a ref - aside from he or she not know the rules - is that he or she allow a game to degenerate into professional wrestling with a ball. The safety of the players and the integrity of the game are paramount. I love a clean, skillful game with few fouls called. And a team's or player's strength and size should not be negated by overprotective refs. But many times, rough play and "professional" fouls are employed as a substitute for skill. I've seen games (HS & club) where the ref seems to have forgotten his whistle, and one team is allowed mug another. So I'd rather see a ref call too many fouls than too few.

A lesson? My daughter played on a premier team where the manager made it clear that we were not a gping to be a group that bashed refs or opponents. He would go so far as to tell parents to lighten up or settle down if they started to get rowdy. Once that culture takes hold, the games become better for all involved. More managers, coaches, coaching directors and other leader types should take the approach of actively making this kind of sportsmanship a goal. I once told my softball team that, if you act like an ***hole on during the game, you don't magically stop being one when the game ends. I even told a parent that I would kick his daughter off the team and give him his money back if he didn't stop the bashing. Sports are supposed to teach players how to deal properly with success and failure, disappoinment, and even unfairness. Fans need to learn those lessons as well.

[cardsinhand]

Sooner, I think what you said was worth more than $0.02!
Thanks for the support!

[lakeview]

We will all be better off when we get headsets like the professional game. Referees should not listen to the fans and the pro referees say the headsets are exceptional for blocking out noises. They can watch the game as they are paid to do.

[misltek]

tonygalinto, I attempted to PM you and could not.

Just as some coaches will never referee, I will never coach. Not my forte.

Credentials...are for pissing contests. If a referee wants some constructive feedback and are receptive to ways to better their game, I will give it to them. Otherwise, I'll leave them alone. Some people may think I'm just another spectator telling them how to do their job and others recognize who I am, use the information I give them, and improve their skills. The option lies with the referees involved.

I never force my opinion on anyone. It's up to them if they want to improve or not.

[pompey]

I never force my opinion on anyone. It's up to them if they want to improve or not.[/quote]

So, if a person does not heed your opinion, they will not improve?

[lakeview]

Maybe he is Esse.

Read what he says. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[misltek]

This is becoming borderline ridiculous....

If people want to know when they're missing OS flags, sweeping their head away from a play too early (following the ball), or mechanics need work, they'll take what I say and might pay more attention to it for their next game.

Some people think they can do no wrong and their game doesn't need improvement. If they turn down my offer to help them out by observing their game and giving them feedback, that's their choice.

I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where we do have people looking at us, to tell us where we can improve on our skills. It's extremely easy to get assessed in a USSF match, but how often do you get someone truly knowledgeable in NFHS Rules?

tonygalinto, if you went to the NFHS website and looked at the Official's Forum, in the soccer section, you wouldn't question whether or not I was dedicated to helping out my fellow referees and coaches.

[happyjack]

misltek said:

This is becoming borderline ridiculous....

If people want to know when they're missing OS flags, sweeping their head away from a play too early (following the ball), or mechanics need work, they'll take what I say and might pay more attention to it for their next game.

Some people think they can do no wrong and their game doesn't need improvement. If they turn down my offer to help them out by observing their game and giving them feedback, that's their choice.

I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where we do have people looking at us, to tell us where we can improve on our skills. It's extremely easy to get assessed in a USSF match, but how often do you get someone truly knowledgeable in NFHS Rules?

tonygalinto, if you went to the NFHS website and looked at the Official's Forum, in the soccer section, you wouldn't question whether or not I was dedicated to helping out my fellow referees and coaches.

isn't this the same person that said he would laugh if a 1-week ussf referee tried to offer him advice? I've been a referee for more years than I care to remember, and also hold evey other refereeing license (that would be instructor, assessor, and assignor) as well a a C class coaching license. I have yet to work a game, with any referee, that they did not have valid feedback or couldn't tell me something with a different perspective than I had. Lose the ego and your words may mean more

[socrrulz02]

First of all this board has nothing to do with USSF so it doesn't really matter if he is or if he isn't affiliated with USSF.

Secondly, I have been at one of the games where he has given the crew some feedback. He gave sound, unbiased advice. You don't have to listen to him if you don't want. They are only suggestions.

Finally, I have been to the NFHS board where he is extremely well respected and his advice is heeded. I can understand why he does not feel the need to give his credentials on this board because he doesn't have to tell everyone who he is. No one on this board is forced to say who they are and who they are affiliated with. He is simply trying to give some helpful advice. You have the option to listen or not. It's not that big of a deal.

I personally thank misltek for what he has done for the different crews that he has spoken with at the various games that he has attended. I know my voice doesn't carry much weight on here but I would vouch for him.

[misltek]

Thanks for sticking up for me Andrew. It means alot coming from someone I've helped out.

[TigerDad]

For my money on this subject I would only like to add one thing - which is not really bashing but hoping for help/response as to the referee's train of thought. I notice one thing that disturbs me in this state as compared to others when we travel - that the play of the game sometimes gets out of hand - but could have been taken control of early by the ref to make sure no one is injured - and then when the game has gotten out of hand - the cards fly. I have 3 daughters that play and do not get in the middle when they are in bad moods - so I can imagine that it is rough with 22 teenagers out there and tempers flying - nothing I want to be around! But getting control of the game early allows the game of soccer to be played and not the game of I can push you down or take out your legs. This lets our girls play the age old respected game with dignity and sheds a better light on soccer in Louisiana to the rest of the area. Also better help from the linesman to be more than someone who calls offsides - so the entire team of officials can work together with handballs, fouls, etc. Again this to me is not bashing but offering some advice from someone who has been around girl's soccer for 11 years in this state - through rec - D1 - Jr High - High School - not ever as a ref but a learning observer.
I do want to give thanks to all the refs for their dedication and hard work for the little reimbursement they get - they should be respected and never feel threatened when they leave a game.

[sosoplayer24]

TigerDad makes a couple of good points that I see as key to many of our games. 1) Getting control of the game early. Most players learn very quickly how much a ref is going to put up with and the game will reflect that. 2) Linesman need to be more involved in the game. I have never understood why linesman ignore handballs or fouls and don't lift their flags. I have asked them and the response is normally that is was not their call. I have also seen them make calls and the center ref either wave them off or come and talk to them and over rule the call. I think the main objective is to get the call right and protect the players. I think that is sometimes forgotten.

I will give credit to the majority of the officials in my area. Their intent is to keep the game safe and be as invisable as possible during the game but uphold the integrity of the game. I think most of the ref bashing comes from parents who don't realy understand the game and what little they do understand is verbaly shared when they see something missed. A few warnings to the bench could help in that area. All in all you have to respect these people for giving of their time (since they can't be doing it for the money) to make sure our kids can play. These are people that love the game and are getting to be a part of the game the only way they can. Give'm credit for that.

As for Misltek - I know who he is and he is a big part of the history of Terrebonne soccer. I have also spent time reading his reports on the other board and can appreciate what he is offering the game. I can understand the questions people have asked and do think he could step up a little more to defend himself but that is his call. He is doing a good job offering his opions to our officials and hopefully his advice will lead to a better game for everyone. Keep up the good work Misltek.

[brhsoccer14]

Just to put forth... usually an AR will not call 'handling' because it is an interpretation, it is not black and white like most people think. The only time I would like for my ARs (linesmen as you call them) to call handling is if I am completely obstructed, meaning the player who handles the ball has his back to me, and the player clearly handles it in a manner that is deemed deliberate.
You hear parents scream 'hand ball' all the time when it hits a player's hand or arm. Stop! This is annyoing! If a player has his or her back to the ball and gets hit in the back of the arm, this is not handling. Not unless he (to make it simple, I will use the male form) raises his arm in the air which would make it an unnatural playing position. There is a lot of consideration that goes into handling and it's something I'd rather my AR's not to call unless I know he has the same thought process as mine and is not busy looking at his offside line/touch or goal line. I also believe that the center has a better position to see if it was deliberate or not 95% of the time.
One must also remember that the AR means assistant referee, meaning he is there to assist, thus meaning the referee has every right to overrule his AR, usually, though, you won't see the AR overruled on offside calls or on calls for out of bounds (I don't mean direction) since he is usually in a better position to make those calls.

[GBULM1234]

I think somethings that need to be added to TigerDad's post , in response is that you get a variety of skill level with refs, just like players, sometimes you get skillfull masterful officiating and sometimes you get officiating that leaves alot to be desired, however this is part of the learning process, learning how to control a game and let the players play freely as oppossed to making calls every minute, there is a balance between those things. Personally I think its allways a benefit to play the sport or atleast have played the sport, because it gives you an idea of how play progress through out a game, now don't get me wrong I have seen some very good officiating at the highschool , youth , and college levels, from refs that have never played, but when we are talking about lower levels you usually get erratic officiating due to education, skill level, and knowledge of the game. As officials we should try to keep games in control , but we need to understand that we have to find that line between free play and nonstop whistle blowing, progression of players is key to finding that balance that makes for a fun game that allows players to get physical, because lets face it soccer its physcial, but allows for a safe environment. Lets also remember that calls are judgment calls, and what one guy or girl thinks is a foul is total different from another, and I think that were playing comes in, because its much easier to make calls on fouls if you have experienced those type of fouls from previous play. However not everybody can play, so we have to resort to ingame training and hope that we do the best we can.

[PumasFC]

Here's a little ANTI-BASHING:
The officiating crew that did the St Amant/Dutchtown game last night from my perspective was almost invisible. Much the the chagrin of fans from both sides. The Center let little nickel and dime fouls go the players on the pitch and fans in the stands wanted called. Instead we witnessed a game that had few stoppages, players that understood the limits the Referee was going to allow, that flowed freely. One call that really had the crowd buzzing was the retraction of Dutchtown's goal in the first half: half the stands cheered and the other half groaned. From my perspective it was an incorrect call but I was 60 yards away and 20 rows up in the stands, versus the Referee and AR who were at most 25 yards from the obstruction. Know my eyes are good but come on now!
Congratulation to an officiating crew that let the game be decided by the players on the field.

[barbedad20]

I'll add more anti-bashing.... The Baton Rouge crew that worked the FHS-Barbe game did a great job. How many times do you hear that from the losing side?? They let the girls play, a few toss up calls but no game changing moments.

[TigerDad]

I will say that the game last night was well officiated by the crew from Lafayette in the Neville vs Sam Houston game also. They had control and did not let it get out of hand.

[socrrulz02]

pumasfc said:

Here's a little ANTI-BASHING:
The officiating crew that did the St Amant/Dutchtown game last night from my perspective was almost invisible. Much the the chagrin of fans from both sides. The Center let little nickel and dime fouls go the players on the pitch and fans in the stands wanted called. Instead we witnessed a game that had few stoppages, players that understood the limits the Referee was going to allow, that flowed freely. One call that really had the crowd buzzing was the retraction of Dutchtown's goal in the first half: half the stands cheered and the other half groaned. From my perspective it was an incorrect call but I was 60 yards away and 20 rows up in the stands, versus the Referee and AR who were at most 25 yards from the obstruction. Know my eyes are good but come on now!
Congratulation to an officiating crew that let the game be decided by the players on the field.

If you read the story in The Advocate, www.2theadvocate.com/sports/5800471.html,they correctly explain why the call was made. Props to the Advocate for getting the explanation correct.

[brhsoccer14]

Way to kill the thread socrrulz.
I am quite shocked that the paper got it right. I thought us referees were the only ones who knew about this rule.