ST. Louis VS MT Carmel Dispute

[eurosweeper]

burtvincent said:

The last good thread we had going on this sight was about the Lafayette tournament. I thought I would bring it back up.

On the final day of the tournament St. Louis and Mt Carmel played.
Each team came in with a 2 and 0 record, and identical goals scored for and against.

The game ended in a tie

According to the tournament rules a championship game was to be played if two teams ended in a tie

The two teams decided to go to PKs for the tournament championship instead of playing each other again in two hours

Mt Carmel won the pk shootout

So the pole question is did game end in a tie and tournament was decided in pks, or did Mt. Carmel win the game

your frame the thread as "DISPUTE". what dispute? St. Louis and Mt. Carmel AGREED to this resolution didn't they? burtvincent...are you bored?

[reddevil]

I agree with eurosweeper. What dispute are you talking about burtvincent? Get a life!

[my2centsplus]

Easy one - MCA wins

[foreverred]

What the heck......Let's just say that St.Louis won or something and put an end to this. We have playoffs to look forward too.......Don't we? Happy??

[sokerfan]

What is all the fuss? The tournament is over ant it was a good game between 2 good teams. Unlike some, when a team goes to a tournament they want to play QUALITY teams. Whether they win or lose. Coaches want to find out who belongs on the field against good teams and the only way is to play good teams.

We threw the tournament and it just happened that St. Louis and Mt. Carmel were scheduled to play the last game. If they had played the first game of the tournament and tied, there would not have been a shootout. So call it what you want, Mt. Carmel won the tournament and congratulations to them.

In the long run the teams will benefit greatly from this tournament because they played 3 quality teams. Watch how far Mt. Carmel, Lafayette, St. Louis and Acadiana go in the playoffs. You can account this to playing tough teams along the way.

[a9imus]

I can see burt's point.

The game was a tie. The shootout had nothing to do with that game. It was the tournament tie-breaker.

What burtvincent is trying to get across is that St. Louis should not have a loss on their record....it should have been scored as tie against Mt. Carmel.

burtvincent knows they did not win the tournament. I think he's just trying to improve their overall record.

It could be argued that the shootout represented the championship game. Therefore, they should have a TIE & a LOSS.

[SWLASocFan]

If St Louis didn't want a loss on their record, they should have agred to play again. That way if they are true talent, they would have won the second match. Then they would have a win and a tie. Loosing in a shoot out in a tournament is no different than lossing in a shoot out of a playoff or district game. It means a loss.. sorry! But that's normally how it works, a shoot out is part of a game!

[a9imus]

This is about getting the records straight.

A few years ago my son's select team played in tournament in Plano, TX. Due to rain & poor field conditions, it was determined that the Semi's & Finals would be decided by PKs, rather than playing the games. They won the shootouts in the semi's & finals...which was considered 2 wins.

I think this is very similar. Once the bracket play was completed, St. Louis & MCA were the 2 finalists.
Rather than playing a championship game, they agreed to settle the championship game with a shootout.
In my opinion, the bracket game should be considered a tie.
The championship game (shootout) resulted in a Win for MCA & a Loss for STL.

Therefore, MCA & STL should each have a tie on their record...from the bracket game.
MCA gets a win for the championship game (shootout). STL gets a loss for the championship game.

As someone else pointed out. If they had played their bracket game earlier in the tournament and had the shootout for the finals, this would be much clearer for everyone to process. The fact the championship shootout followed the bracket game gives the appearance that the shootout was for the bracket game...but it wasn't.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on info I've seen on this post. I was not at the game, did not have rules of the tournament, have no idea what the coaches & tournament organizers discussed.

[mcarules]

I don't know where some get their information but I guess whatever it takes to better their record. The teams agreed before the game that that game was going to determine the tournament champion so they wouldn't have to stick around until later in the afternoon for another game (what was the point?). The decision to go to PKs was NOT made after the tie. It was all decided before the game started. So, this was ONE game and it went to PKs which MCA won. So it's a WIN for MCA and a LOSS for St. Louis. The records reflect it correctly. CASE CLOSED. MOVE ON.

[a9imus]

mcarules said:

I don't know where some get their information but I guess whatever it takes to better their record. The teams agreed before the game that that game was going to determine the tournament champion so they wouldn't have to stick around until later in the afternoon for another game (what was the point?). The decision to go to PKs was NOT made after the tie. It was all decided before the game started. So, this was ONE game and it went to PKs which MCA won. So it's a WIN for MCA and a LOSS for St. Louis. The records reflect it correctly. CASE CLOSED. MOVE ON.

If that was the case, I totally agree with you.

But with burtvincent being an insider at STL, I would think he would have known about the agreement prior to posting this DISPUTE???

Burt???

just keep stirring

[adidas76]

The game was a tie. The pk shootout was a tournament tiebreaker because the teams were tied on the other tournament tiebreakers. The pk shootout does not count as a game by itself. Now we can move on.

[foreverred]

First of all the tournament host sets the rules. There are no agreements between teams before or after games.
Last year, same tournament, MCA lost in the semis to CHNI. 1-1 game, 8-7 PKs. It went on their record as their 2nd loss at the time....and it stayed there! No disputes, no fuss.
Last year Dominican won the STATE title with penalty kicks, after O/T. Lafayette took the loss and Dominican the win.

[adidas76]

Ok, Ok you are correct. If you throw out the fact that this was the third game of a round robin tournament your logic makes perfect sense. As a comprimise I think Mt. Carmel should report the game as a win and St. Louis should report the game as a tie in their respective school yearbooks. If somehow this irreconcilable record of the 2007-08 season tears the universe in half then we only have ourselves to blame.

[SWLASocFan]

What does it matter?
A record is one thing, but talent on the field is another!

A team could have several losses on their record, yet make it to the state final and win state!

A record is a number game, it's for the people who care about what they look like on paper. Be proud of your team for what they look like on the field not on paper..

[foreverred]

I totally agree. At the end of the day there will only be one team to remember, and that is the State champion. The ride to get there, the wins, the "ties" the losses, the ups and downs, is the fun part. St Louis is really a very good team and the same can certainly be said about MCA. Let's not forget though, Sacred Heart, Newman, for St Louis, SSA, STM, FHS, LHS Barbe, Dutchtown, Acadiana, are all in the same boat, awaiting........
To be honest with you I do not know last year's Dominican's or Newman's record. Who cares....they are the State Champs!

[mcarules]

I agree too liveforsoccer and foreverred.

adidad76, same game and one school records it as a win and the other one as a tie??? What are you smoking??

You know what...if it makes St. Louis feel better they can tell us what they want their record to be and we can update the standings.