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Post by phsmom on Feb 12, 2008 16:16:51 GMT -6
eurosweeper, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it differs from my own. in my opinion, that is what a forum like this is for, for everyone to be able to speak what is on their mind. I always enjoy reading what everyone has to say. Keep posting, I'll keep reading and adding my own sarcasm!
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Post by Wofford Dad f/k/a SJA Dad on Feb 12, 2008 16:24:39 GMT -6
Two final points about this subject, and then I shall withdraw. First, pre-Katrina, the public schools on the Lake Ponchartrain north shore already had a lot of New Orleans commuters -- people with money who probably had their kids in private school through 8th grade. Post-Katrina, the north shore was virtually overrun with displaced New Orleanians. Real estate values skyrocketed more than any other place in the entire country[/u]. As a result, the Covington/Mandeville area has the highest per capita number of soccer players of any area in the state -- and in all probability -- the same for the entire south. More soccer players from New Orleans means more elite soccer players from New Orleans. Certainly some of those folks returned. But many did not. Some wound up going to SSA. But many wound up at Fontainebleau and Mandeville. And so the point here is that the demographics of public/private shifted dramatically in '05. The 2nd -- and final -- point is that a public school system state wide -- but mainly in NO and BR -- that for years was subject to under-funding, physical neglect, and political neglect -- got behind the 8-ball once private schools started flourishing in the 60's and 70's. In BR, a school deseg lawsuit that began in 1955 was not resolved until 2004. Private schools were viable options because parents didn't want their kids traveling hours to and from schools. Once the private schools began educating children on a mass scale, it didn't take long for that to become big business. And with one of the highest percentage of private student education going on in this state, as compared to other states, private school big business carved its niche -- who could blame them? But does anyone really think private schools will go away in light of the money they rake in? This is the reason why more money doesn't go to public schools. This is the reason why public schools by and large have less credentialed teachers [and yes -- I understand that West Feliciana, St. Tammany, and some of the northern parishes are exceptions to the rule]. And this is also the reason why we rank no. 49 in education. This factor is also the reason why so many businesses will not come to this state -- because families feel the need to dole out thousands of dollars each year so their kids can get a decent education. And yes you have an outstanding public education facility in BR -- Baton Rouge High -- that has been turning out quality kids for years -- and it is a building that is on the verge of collapsing. Where will it find $30,000,000 to renovate? I'm glad that quality public schools in the BR area like Woodlawn and Dutchtown have clean, new facilities. But there are many, many throughout the state that are card board boxes just like BRHS. Ok -- off my high horse. And to think I'd gotten my karma back down -1. Oh well.
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Post by barbedad20 on Feb 12, 2008 16:32:09 GMT -6
SHCREEEEEECCCCCHHHHHHHH
That is the sound of me trying to put on the brakes here......
This thread has gone full circle and definitely not where I was trying to go with this. But let me add my comments on the new directions. I can promise you that no Barbe girl or Barbe parent would want a state ring if the brackets were diluted into Private vs Public. It would be similar to a team like Barbe or St Louis going to the St Martin Tournament in early December and demand to play in the lower bracket. What would we accomplish by doing that. I am one of the few idiots who love to see 1 bracket with a winner take all State Soccer Champion. Could you imagine the Div I brackets if you added St Louis, Newman, Sacred Heart, Vandebilt Cath, etc. Would make some incredible soccer playoffs with the last team standing truly a state champion. Sort of like the movie Hoosier's!! Now please don't call me out on this, I know it will never happen but as the playoffs has shown, the teams playing the best will make the final 4 whether they are public or private.
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Post by cgcsu on Feb 12, 2008 16:59:58 GMT -6
(especially with a photographer on your payroll!!) If Barbe wins state, does he get a ring? I will be pulling for Barbe. After all I would never pull for a private school over a public school ;D Seriously, good luck to all!!
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Post by know1important on Feb 12, 2008 17:35:34 GMT -6
SJA Dad..............and everyone else for that matter. I'm not trying to put anyone in there place I just want to clarify things. There is not one kid on either the current Fountainebleau or SSA roster that was not living here locally before the hurricane. The reason why the teams on the Northshore are successful is due to the quality of the local soccer club.
i
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Post by NutMeg on Feb 12, 2008 21:08:16 GMT -6
Here is a little side note. All of the teams left in Division I played in the Soccer Classic. One of the two in the Division II finals played in the Soccer Classic. All of the teams left in Division III also played in the Soccer Classic.
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Post by iliveforthis on Feb 12, 2008 21:30:26 GMT -6
Where is the CHEESE??? Need Some CHEESE for this WHINE party!!
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 12, 2008 22:44:54 GMT -6
Two final points about this subject, and then I shall withdraw. First, pre-Katrina, the public schools on the Lake Ponchartrain north shore already had a lot of New Orleans commuters -- people with money who probably had their kids in private school through 8th grade. Post-Katrina, the north shore was virtually overrun with displaced New Orleanians. Real estate values skyrocketed more than any other place in the entire country[/u]. As a result, the Covington/Mandeville area has the highest per capita number of soccer players of any area in the state -- and in all probability -- the same for the entire south. More soccer players from New Orleans means more elite soccer players from New Orleans. Certainly some of those folks returned. But many did not. Some wound up going to SSA. But many wound up at Fontainebleau and Mandeville. And so the point here is that the demographics of public/private shifted dramatically in '05. The 2nd -- and final -- point is that a public school system state wide -- but mainly in NO and BR -- that for years was subject to under-funding, physical neglect, and political neglect -- got behind the 8-ball once private schools started flourishing in the 60's and 70's. In BR, a school deseg lawsuit that began in 1955 was not resolved until 2004. Private schools were viable options because parents didn't want their kids traveling hours to and from schools. Once the private schools began educating children on a mass scale, it didn't take long for that to become big business. And with one of the highest percentage of private student education going on in this state, as compared to other states, private school big business carved its niche -- who could blame them? But does anyone really think private schools will go away in light of the money they rake in? This is the reason why more money doesn't go to public schools. This is the reason why public schools by and large have less credentialed teachers [and yes -- I understand that West Feliciana, St. Tammany, and some of the northern parishes are exceptions to the rule]. And this is also the reason why we rank no. 49 in education. This factor is also the reason why so many businesses will not come to this state -- because families feel the need to dole out thousands of dollars each year so their kids can get a decent education. And yes you have an outstanding public education facility in BR -- Baton Rouge High -- that has been turning out quality kids for years -- and it is a building that is on the verge of collapsing. Where will it find $30,000,000 to renovate? I'm glad that quality public schools in the BR area like Woodlawn and Dutchtown have clean, new facilities. But there are many, many throughout the state that are card board boxes just like BRHS. Ok -- off my high horse. And to think I'd gotten my karma back down -1. Oh well. [/quote] I agree. Excellent points.
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Post by justlovethegame on Feb 13, 2008 0:40:24 GMT -6
On a different note - How many of the remaining teams have "Premier" or "Select" coaches? During the playoffs I think this becomes a major advantage. Do private/public schools have the same requirements for being a head coach?
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Bench Warmer
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Post by on Feb 13, 2008 7:35:55 GMT -6
On a different note - How many of the remaining teams have "Premier" or "Select" coaches? During the playoffs I think this becomes a major advantage. Do private/public schools have the same requirements for being a head coach? BINGO!! Give justlovethegame a door prize!! You almost nailed it. It is a non issue at the semi final level. Even some LSA D1 teams play straight over for their h/s teams. So it is not just a premier thing. Now, shifting topics, fill in the blanks to figure out who wanted the rule from LHSAA changed in relationship to select/high school coaches. A rule change won't change where the players attend high school. SJADad did a good job pointing out this, so I won't belabor the point. Another lame attempt to "level the playing field" in the eyes of those who roar thru a weak district and have a cruel, cold slap of reality (AKA humiliated) every year come the first or second round of the playoffs, much to the "shock" of their fans. Either you and your school's program are dedicated to a particular sport or not, and in the end it shows on the field/court/track.
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Post by uncsoccer on Feb 13, 2008 7:40:49 GMT -6
Vandebilt's coach is one of our players father! Not a select coach and never played the game! But he is still premier in our book! Btw, we have 2 select players only and one was out the majority of the season due to knee surgery! Also, they do not all play on the same club team so it is truly remarkable that they have come together to play so well as a team!
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Post by Tigertail on Feb 13, 2008 8:56:28 GMT -6
Vandebilt's coach is one of our players father! Not a select coach and never played the game! But he is still premier in our book! Btw, we have 2 select players only and one was out the majority of the season due to knee surgery! Also, they do not all play on the same club team so it is truly remarkable that they have come together to play so well as a team! Division II is not as strong as it has been the past few years, Vandy peeps don't take offense to this. I believe Vandy has passed through 1st round 9-0, QF round 9-0, SF round 4-0, and I expect them to take the finals by 3 goals (or more)! Not putting any blame on them b/c schools don't choose the division makeup or the divisions they play in, yet they have benefitted from Div. II having 4 really strong teams move up (SSA, STM) and down (Ursuline, B.Franklin), as pointed out to me by pompey. Don't misunderstand me...Vandy is talented with many skilled players, and obviously the coaches have them firing on all cylinders in the playoffs, so I'm giving them credit for being an outstanding team. I think Vandy would be competitive with those 4 teams still in Div. II...yet they would have had to break a sweat on their road to the finals, I think.
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Post by blacksmith on Feb 13, 2008 9:22:42 GMT -6
Point of Order Mr. Chairman: To those above who says on winning championships is not their intention so splitting public v. private, please stop. If you think there are injustices in your area contact the LHSAA and have them investigate any wrong doing, that is what they are there to do. If a kid grows up next door to you and goes to private school all their life let them pick a private school to attend, if they go to public school through 8th grade and pick a private high school, find out why or have the LHSAA investigate, but do not call down people like me and many others across the state for sending my kids to a private school. I do not trust the public school system here in north la and i am sure i would have the same feeling if i lived in south la. I have a choice and choose to send my kids to safe, private school that has exceptional academics and where their athletic teams are very competitive, but will probably need alot of luck to win a championship. To spilt would be crazy, we already crown 3 state champions when there are really only enough 'competitive teams from Div. I,II & III to make one true competitive division. Adding separate divisions what are going to have 5 or 6 state champs? this is not rec, not everyone needs to get a trophy at the end of the year. As far as the post about changing addresses to attend private school, i can name boys and girls, at local shreveport schools who used relatives addresses so they could attend public schools outside of where they actually live, don't tell me just the private schools recruit, i'm not buying.
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2young2coach
All-District
come play my indoor team.....and get waxed!
Posts: 216
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Post by 2young2coach on Feb 13, 2008 10:41:17 GMT -6
fhs, mhs, and ssa all in one district. that is one sick district schedule if u ask me. now instead of just fhs and mhs in race for district champ, ssa is thrown in the mix. district will up for grabs every year.
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Post by eurosweeper on Feb 13, 2008 10:41:20 GMT -6
I guess going back to this topic each year is really beating a dead horse like phsmom says. So I'll joing in an earlier post on this topic which I agree with.
"I believe regardless of private or public, the number of athletes a program gets and the work the players are willing to put out in the off season, aliong with a good coaching staff IS THE DECIDING FACTOR in how far a team goes in the playoffs."
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Feb 13, 2008 11:42:41 GMT -6
I believe regardless of private or public, the number of athletes a program gets and the work the players are willing to put out in the off season, aliong with a good coaching staff IS THE DECIDING FACTOR in how far a team goes in the playoffs." Good point. At this time, it all comes down to what the players are doing outside of the 4 month high school season. Are they playing club ball? Is it premier level? And, of course, that in turn comes down to money. It costs a lot of money to do these things. But, the parents and coaches that are willing to do it, those are the ones that are usually left standing at the end of the high school season.
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Post by diverdo on Feb 13, 2008 12:21:52 GMT -6
This has been interesting reading - it sure is easy to tell which posters are involved with private schools and which with public. At the end of the day in all comes down to MONEY. In soccer specifically, I really do not think there is widespread recruiting however, if anyone thinks that it doesn't occur in football, basketball and baseball - and mostly in the private schools, they are kidding themselves. Where public education is as strong as or probably even superior to private, for instance on the Northshore, the public schools have enough athletes with the wherewithall to do what the athletes at the private schools are doing: playing premier, traveling to tournaments, spending time playing soccer and not having to work at a job. In some other parts of the state that just isn't the case. It takes a lot of $$ to play premier/D1 and travel and these club teams are generally populated in a much greater proportion by private school athletes than public school athletes in comparison to the proportion of private to public students in any geography. As a result there is a concentration of talent in the private schools - that is just a fact of life. The one area where I do think that the private schools have an unfair advantage generally is in coaching where they can pay whatever it takes to hire the best coaches available which normally isn't the case on the public side. I think the emphasis should continue to be trying to ensure as level a playing field as possible without separating into public/private.
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Post by justthatfast on Feb 16, 2008 21:19:47 GMT -6
One thought about the playoffs. It would be great if all the winners or top two teams from each division could have a composite playoff. I have tried to get this in Cross Country, but as soon as the State Meet is over, the season is over and it is illegal to host another meet. Although I am a Barbe Fan, I would put St. Louis's girls up against any of the other teams. Go Bucs Go Saints.
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Old57
Bench Warmer
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Post by Old57 on Feb 16, 2008 22:18:59 GMT -6
I was thinking of something, but SJA Dad said it in a nutshell:
"The reason soccer is probably more and better developed within the private schools is pure economics. A family that can afford to send their child to Newman can obviously afford to put him or her in club ball, as well as ODP." This is the prime reason why private schools generally produce better soccer players and teams than public schools. I do not claim infallibility or perfect observation, but private schools play a less sophinsticated "kick and run" game more than the passing & ball control game that is the focus of club soccer and private school soccer. Sometimes this is enough to win, especially on narrower fields where the passing game may be inhibited. The kick and run game works with good athletes who may not be as skilled as club players. But I find it obvious that playing club ball (either premier or D-1 ) makes for better players in high school. I have seen outstnding high school sophomores whose game deteriorates noticably when they quit playing club ball.
I prefer to watch the more sophisticated game, but I'm for whatever gets kids to play more soccer. If you want a good HS team, get your players on a some kind of club team and you will see a significant improvement. This is not meant as a judgment, but rather an observation.
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